Online Media Morals - AMDmb Editorial

[K.I.L.E.R]

...just as bad.

As bad as what exactly?

Ryan did get entry to the event from his own account didn't he?
I am not supporting either Ryan or Omid or AMD or even ATI who were all there. Why mention ATI? Driverheaven.NET were ASKED not to post their article until THG had finished there coverage giving them a lead time.

So this DOES fit in with some of what Ryan was saying in his article? Yes. Perhaps Ryan demanded that he would post whatever he wanted whenever he wanted and neither AMD or THG could tell him otherwise.

The AMD representative (from Ryan's account) was agreement with THG yet Ryan has not damned them nearly as much if at all. Do you find it ironic that AMD pissed off one of their biggest fansites? Ryan cannot bring it to himself to admit to the fact that whilst he blames just one person from AMD for making a mistake he blames the entire THG staff for forcing this embargo.

Personally I do not agree one bit that THG is now suing AMDMB.com because from beginning to end it looks to me like a playground tiff and is so bloody petty a prize winning authour couldn't make this kind of tripe up.

People lose judgement when they get angry. The answer is simple, and the simplest things are the most difficult to make reality: spread more love and kill that ego

http://www.rage3d.net/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33695304&perpage=30&pagenumber=2


CATALYST maker
*cough*
I asked Zardon to not post DH's review until after THG posted their out of professional courtesy.
*cough*

 

[MfA]

Is Catalyst really telling the whole story there? How did he know THG deserved to be payed this professional courtesy?

 

[digitalwanderer]

...just as bad.

As bad as what exactly?

Ryan did get entry to the event from his own account didn't he?
I am not supporting either Ryan or Omid or AMD or even ATI who were all there. Why mention ATI? Driverheaven.NET were ASKED not to post their article until THG had finished there coverage giving them a lead time.

So this DOES fit in with some of what Ryan was saying in his article? Yes. Perhaps Ryan demanded that he would post whatever he wanted whenever he wanted and neither AMD or THG could tell him otherwise.

The AMD representative (from Ryan's account) was agreement with THG yet Ryan has not damned them nearly as much if at all. Do you find it ironic that AMD pissed off one of their biggest fansites? Ryan cannot bring it to himself to admit to the fact that whilst he blames just one person from AMD for making a mistake he blames the entire THG staff for forcing this embargo.

Personally I do not agree one bit that THG is now suing AMDMB.com because from beginning to end it looks to me like a playground tiff and is so bloody petty a prize winning authour couldn't make this kind of tripe up.

People lose judgement when they get angry. The answer is simple, and the simplest things are the most difficult to make reality: spread more love and kill that ego

http://www.rage3d.net/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33695304&perpage=30&pagenumber=2


CATALYST maker
*cough*
I asked Zardon to not post DH's review until after THG posted their out of professional courtesy.
*cough*

Yes, and?

I spoke with both Zardon AND Terry about this and there is absolutely no discrepency what so ever between their stories...and it seems EXACTLY the kind of thing that Zardon would do as he happens to be a very curteous and friendly guy. (Alan is a friend of mine as well as an ex-boss.)

I know you want it to be a conspiracy, but it simply isn't. Terry asked a favor of Zardon in an effort to be nice to THG since they were so cool to him at MML2, that's all. Zardon thought that was no problem since the DH guys didn't even have their story ready yet, and besides Terry has bent over backwards to help DH out a few times too!

There really is such a thing as professional curteousies and friends, and that is indeed the case here.

 

[Tahir2]

K.I.L.E.R like I said sometimes you have to try and kill that ego.

 

[MfA]

To me it doesnt sound like professional courtesy at all, more like a favour.

There is such a thing as professional courtesy, and there is also such a thing as professional conduct ... this shit should have never gone down like this. To me it seems THG expected too much for too little, they didnt sponsor MML2 with actual money and even if they did you cannot expect exclusive coverage of public events, and when they couldnt get it through official channels they did their best to gain it through using friends and favours (and a little blustered strongarming).

 

[Tahir2]

I mailed Omid and told him just to let this shit die off, instead of fueling Kyle's fire. He sent me this strange e-mail back....

But I need this fix of flames every now and then. Like people taking mud
baths for their health. It's mud for chrissakes, but you can't help
lolling in it.

Omid Rahmat
Tom's Guides Publishing
www.tomshardware.com

I really dont know what to say.....

I think he meant that he got mad and was venting off some steam..

 

[micron]

I mailed Omid and told him just to let this shit die off, instead of fueling Kyle's fire. He sent me this strange e-mail back....

But I need this fix of flames every now and then. Like people taking mud
baths for their health. It's mud for chrissakes, but you can't help
lolling in it.

Omid Rahmat
Tom's Guides Publishing
www.tomshardware.com

I really dont know what to say.....

I think he meant that he got mad and was venting off some steam..

Yea Tahir, at least he was honest!

 

[Unit01]

To me it doesnt sound like professional courtesy at all, more like a favour.

There is such a thing as professional courtesy, and there is also such a thing as professional conduct ... this shit should have never gone down like this. To me it seems THG expected too much for too little, they didnt sponsor MML2 with actual money and even if they did you cannot expect exclusive coverage of public events, and when they couldnt get it through official channels they did their best to gain it through using friends and favours (and a little blustered strongarming).

First you say it doesn't matter if they did sponsor with money. Then you say it wouldn't have mattered IF THEY DID. Geesh i wonder what amdmb contributed with to the publicity of MML2 except spreading lots of propaganda BS.

And it seems people doesn't read all posts. Check digi's post. It was of professional courtesy since THG actually HELPED with the event by trying to get more publicity by inviding more media.

Isn't it amdmb that expected to much here? Or maybe was a little wrong. There were even people that mentioned Ryan misunderstood which days the Q&A was. Wow that sure is smart, and to top it off let's write a small rant editorial of how sucky THG and amd and MML2 is.

Is it so wrong of THG to get a small exclusive on the event? They sponsored the event. Helped bring in the media to increase it's publicity.
And then it all gets ruined by some smart-ass ranting idiot at amdmb.
Creating a bad cloud over the event. There were even misunderstandings that ATI and all the other parties there were involved. amdmb has created nothing but bad word about MML2 and IMO amdmb deserves nothing good from the event except maybe a kick somewhere.

THG didn't get exclusive on the event. They we're given a "half exclusive" in publishing their article, ie others agreed to hold back their article 1-2 days for THG to put out their first.

 

[MfA]

First you say it doesn't matter if they did sponsor with money. Then you say it wouldn't have mattered IF THEY DID.

Well it is the truth ... you have public events and private events. You can pump money into public events till you are blue in the face, but if the organizers dont want to have the attendants sign contracts it wont get any less public.

It is the organizers choice what kind of event it will be, it is the hardware manufacturers choice who they give private interviews to and it is the sponsors choice to determine if they want to sponsor a public event.

Now THG is of course allowed to go behind the organizers back and try to keep web reporting back through any legal means they want. Wether they deserve courtesy when some of the means they choose are rather unrespectable is a different question.

Isn't it amdmb that expected to much here? Or maybe was a little wrong. There were even people that mentioned Ryan misunderstood which days the Q&A was. Wow that sure is smart,

Which is irrelevant. I dont really care about his interpretation of events, but wether the factual bits of what he said were true ... I have little reason to doubt it. Ive already said he was being hypocritcal, further character assasination on Ryan changes little about THG and AMD's parts

and to top it off let's write a small rant editorial of how sucky THG and amd and MML2 is.

You made the part about MML2 up.

Is it so wrong of THG to get a small exclusive on the event?

In a word, yes. Most of the sponsors paid to sponsor a public event.

They sponsored the event.

Depends on your definition.

Helped bring in the media to increase it's publicity.

True enough.

And then it all gets ruined by some smart-ass ranting idiot at amdmb. Creating a bad cloud over the event.

He told the truth as he perceived it, you are just insulting the ability to discriminate of the people who read it. I think as far as the MML2 was concerned the story was pretty much irrelevant to its reputation, the organizers had nothing to do with it ... even the story as told was clear enough on that.

THG didn't get exclusive on the event. They we're given a "half exclusive" in publishing their article, ie others agreed to hold back their article 1-2 days for THG to put out their first.

It would have worked better if they had asked instead of demanded the same of Ryan. You cant demand courtesy, indeed when you start demanding it the chance of getting it becomes pretty damn slim. Especially if you are liberal with the truth whilst doing the demanding, that is in fact a good way of getting a controversial article published.

 

[Unit01]

Well had to give amdmb a free hit by visiting their site

I was not allowed to enter the building, take photos or write about the hardware events that would occur inside. Needless to say, I was not happy when I heard about this turn of events.

That was written by Ryan at amdmb. Was not allowed to enter the building? How does that explain his prescence there that so many visitors mentioned?

What of what he said was true? WHAT?

I dont really care about his interpretation of events, but wether the factual bits of what he said were true ... I have little reason to doubt it

And i mention again. Wasn't it Ryan that handled it wrong as well? Why place all the blame on THG and AMD. Couldn't Ryan just have said no and left or yes "i can hold it back 1-2 days". But then again his attitude isn't like that to be nice, judging from his nice ranting editorial.

And questioning whether THG sponsored the event is really necessary? Sure try some flaming.
It was clear before the event started that THG were one of the sponsors.
What did amdmb contribute with to the event? WHAT?

 

[MfA]

Well had to give amdmb a free hit by visiting their site

I was not allowed to enter the building, take photos or write about the hardware events that would occur inside. Needless to say, I was not happy when I heard about this turn of events.

That was written by Ryan at amdmb. Was not allowed to enter the building? How does that explain his prescence there that so many visitors mentioned?

You are misinterpreting the article.

And i mention again. Wasn't it Ryan that handled it wrong as well? Why place all the blame on THG and AMD. Couldn't Ryan just have said no and left or yes "i can hold it back 1-2 days". But then again his attitude isn't like that to be nice, judging from his nice ranting editorial.

As I said before, asking for a favour tends to not work if you start by demanding it. Hell they started it off by telling him he could not come at all, this sort of stuff tends to predispose people against wanting to grant you any favours.

And questioning whether THG sponsored the event is really necessary?

They are not on the official sponsorship list, so I dont see why it should be such a surprise for someone to question it. He gave them some free publicity which they of course gladly accepted ... and behind their back made deals with the hardware manufacturers. Not quite sponsorship, more like hitching a ride.

Sure try some flaming.

<edit> I did, but thought better of it.

It was clear before the event started that THG were one of the sponsors. What did amdmb contribute with to the event? WHAT?

He did his job, partly at least, reporting.

 

[jvd]

Look if the guy from amdmb has proof that they didn't want him in and can back all this up mabye toms hardware has a problem with amdmb or mabye amd has a problem with amdmb. I like how it all died down outta know where though . Makes you wonder.

 

[Unit01]

You still haven't explained his prescence there. He said there was a total media black out. Explain his prescence at the event, since he wasn't allowed to be there.

As I said before, asking for a favour tends to not work if you start by demanding it. Hell they started it off by telling him he could not come at all, this sort of stuff tends to predispose people against wanting to grant you any favours.

Read the little reply at driverheaven that was written to the MML2 event? THG and CM tried to bring in MORE MEDIA. Not as few as possible. The reply aint on the frontpage anymore. But i'm sure others have read it and can testify to it's existence. He could not come at all? That sure explains his prescence

From THG on the day1 coverage of MML2

MML2 is the first LAN party THG has sponsored and become involved in so, it's a bit of milestone for us.

Think they can claim something like that and get away with it if it's not real?

He did his job, partly at least, reporting.

difference between right out lying and actually consider, evaluate and write.
Still the question what amdmb contributed with to the MML2 except create bad publicity for THG and ATI? Yes some people were so dumb to get it all wrong and thought ATI was in on this.
And writing an ranting editorial ain't contributing.

Answer the questions straightfully and instead of giving short and snappy replies explain where i'm misinteprenting things and i'll consider where i'm wrong and i'll gladfully correct it. But so far you haven't done any of it.

 

[MfA]

You still haven't explained his prescence there. He said there was a total media black out. Explain his prescence at the event, since he wasn't allowed to be there.

Here is the context for your quote.

This weekend at the Million Man Lan 2 (MML2) this usual series of events was shifted due to manufacturer and media company coming to their own terms. It started when I was attempting to attend the MML2 event, in Louisville, KY. I was told by a representative of AMD that I was not going to be allowed to even enter the building because Tom’s Hardware (THG) had forced a media blackout for all other online press. That means that as a member of the press, I was not allowed to enter the building, take photos or write about the hardware events that would occur inside. Needless to say, I was not happy when I heard about this turn of events. I contacted representatives that put on the MML2 event, as well as reps from sponsors like NVIDIA and other AMD personnel. None of the other sponsors, NVIDIA included, were aware of the apparent media blackout by THG – in fact that defeats the purpose of sponsoring an event like the MML2 – getting recognition for shelling out the dough. (Note: The staff of the MML2 event were VERY helpful and had nothing to do with the events that occurred between myself and AMD/THG. The event was a lot of fun and quite the success with over 1,000 in attendance!)

Upon further pushing by myself and NVIDIA, it was discovered that the MML2 staff did not know that THG was pushing to have a media blackout on the event, it was something that they were doing independently and of their own will. Even more interesting, was the fact that the THG rep that was responsible for the event did not get permission from his boss at THG to do so. Needless to say a lot of additional drama went on, but in the end I was let into the convention hall and allowed to bring my camera. The fun didn’t stop there however. !)

His account describes things which were said to him, and later recanted. Your question only makes sense if you misinterpret the article. Of course non web based media arent a competitor anyway, and any site which THG is sure will tow the party line is not much of a threat either.

Read the little reply at driverheaven that was written to the MML2 event? THG and CM tried to bring in MORE MEDIA. Not as few as possible. The reply aint on the frontpage anymore. But i'm sure others have read it and can testify to it's existence.

That does not excuse their treatment of him, nor of below the board agreements they made with people behind the backs of MML organizers.

From THG on the day1 coverage of MML2

MML2 is the first LAN party THG has sponsored and become involved in so, it's a bit of milestone for us.

Think they can claim something like that and get away with it if it's not real?

Think the MML can keep THG off the list of sponsors and get away with it if they really were? (BTW the obvious answer to both questions is yes, neither have much interest in rocking the boat in this regard.) There were no financial arrangements between the organizers and THG according to the organizers. THG "volunteered" advertisement (cant really call it that given what they expected in return).

If you want to call it sponsorship fine, I just call that debatable.

difference between right out lying and actually consider, evaluate and write.

Well we can all choose what to believe, the only first hand account of what happened to Ryan (that THG invited other media is entirely besides the point, there are lots of seperate individuals at work here) is from Ryan ... with the "ever respectable" backup of hardocp

Answer the questions straightfully and instead of giving short and snappy replies explain where i'm misinteprenting things and i'll consider where i'm wrong and i'll gladfully correct it. But so far you haven't done any of it.

To be truethfull, I didnt think you were misinterpreting anything ... that is why I kept it short. Making the assumption that you were misinterpreting what he said is the nicest option.

As for contributing to the MML, I think the forces at work in this SNAFU would only have grown more destructive if left untouched. He did his work, assuming what he said was true, he reported the news. The truth might hurt in the short term, but in the long term it is beneficial IMO. Im sure that if THG is involved with the next MML any requests for exclusivity will be handled above board (and maybe be more formally tied to individual interviews with companies, the only way to get exclusives at all without relying on favours).

Ultimately I just didnt think the question was important though, which I probably should have said. Reporting the truth and not just reporting nice things is a valid goal.

 

[Unit01]

What about the other thing that has been mentioned in the thread? Already forgotten them?
It was mentioned that there was a public and private session.

Which thereby invalidates the statement that Ryan wasn't allowed. Maybe he wasn't allowed to be there at the private showing? IS it then right of him to be demanded to be allowed to be there?

I still stand by that THG helped with the event and was one of the sponsors. As has been mentioned from the sites that covered the event.

You seem to stand by what Ryan wrote as the definitive truth, which seems kind of odd. How come you take what he write as the all and be all word of the MML2 event.
Have you read the other sites coverage and some responses from the people that actually were there?

They reported opposite of what Ryan tells of.

Doesn't it seem little odd that it's only Ryan that has reported of this?
Yes i would like to know the truth of this as well. But so far everything speaks against Ryan's claims. Which in term means it was just a ranting editorial without any ground beneath it.
Hardocp isn't involved in this in anyway. Don't bring in the puppet that is [H]. They just offered to help Ryan with their lawyer if a lawsuit really was going to happen.
Q: have you read the THG coverage? The Sudhian coverage? The driverheaven coverage?
They're all wrong?

 

[MfA]

What about the other thing that has been mentioned in the thread? Already forgotten them?
It was mentioned that there was a public and private session.

Which thereby invalidates the statement that Ryan wasn't allowed. Maybe he wasn't allowed to be there at the private showing? IS it then right of him to be demanded to be allowed to be there?

It would be, but the article does not get into that ... the initial statement that he was to be refused of admittance, and later of right to report, was quite clearly not restricted to the private sessions (according to the article as written, doesnt make it true ... but the situation as presented is internally consistent, and in no way inconsistent with his being there).

How come you take what he write as the all and be all word of the MML2 event.
Have you read the other sites coverage and some responses from the people that actually were there?

They reported opposite of what Ryan tells of.

They report that not all what was said to him came to pass ... I really dont care about that. As I said before THG was powerless to stop anyone from attending or reporting, so they were just blowing smoke anyway.

Doesn't it seem little odd that it's only Ryan that has reported of this?

That depends on how many people tried to make advance arrangements with AMD, and wether Ryan was relatively fast in doing so (after the shit hit the fan of course things changed a bit ... people who just showed up would have had no problems regardless, THG had absolutely zero control over the event anyway).

By the time the event came around the parties involved probably wised up enough to notice they could demand fuck all, so instead they asked nicely ... even that to me has a bit of a sour taste though. Because this deal was not one explicitly entered into by the organizers ... if THG wanted this in return for their services they should have made it clear from the start.

Of course in that case the MML organizers would have been free to not agree with it!

Handling this stuff in advance and in the open would have saved everyone this headache.

Yes i would like to know the truth of this as well. But so far everything speaks against Ryan's claims.

Noone else actually involved in the conversations has spoken up ...

Don't bring in the puppet that is [H]. They just offered to help Ryan with their lawyer if a lawsuit really was going to happen.

No that is not quite the full extent of what they said on the matter.

Q: have you read the THG coverage? The Sudhian coverage? The driverheaven coverage?

Yes.

They're all wrong?

Just as his being there in no way contradicts his account of events, neither does the fact that web reporters were only asked to delay their reporting at the event. One is an account of what was said to him over the phone, and probably e-mail, the other is an account of things that happened at an event. They can both be true.

Before you accuse me again of not answering the question, even it is irrelevant, yes I think they reported what they witnessed truethfully ...

Marco

 

[Unit01]

If both attendees and the sites that covered the event reports opposite of what Ryan says. How come you still believe him?

And since you answered yes that what the sites i mentioned were right. How can any part of what Ryan says be right?

Last message in this thread if your answer is what i predict(ie rounding the subject and give half-answers and creating uncertainty towards my answers and question)

[H] has no reason to lie when they get a opportunity to put a blow against THG?

 

[MfA]

If both attendees and the sites that covered the event reports opposite of what Ryan says. How come you still believe him?

I believe him because he has no reason to lie, and because H has little reason to lie about the taped conversations. No other person directly involved with the events described in the article (once again for clarity, the events reported in the article were conversations) has stood up.

It is impossible for things that happened at the MML to proove one way or the other that the conversations took place in the way Ryan described them. It is a logical fallacy.

I also believe him because the other sites did what he says was demanded from him (after the SNAFU with AMD was solved). Yes THG used sugar instead of vinegar on them, but that might have something to do with the fact that they knew they would play ball ... and the fact that THG was powerless to prevent anyone from being admitted anyway (that doesnt mean they cant bluster about doing it ahead of time though).

Last message in this thread if your answer is what i predict(ie rounding the subject and give half-answers and creating uncertainty towards my answers and question)

I unfortunately cannot lay claim to the uncertainty in your posts.