Oculus Quest

Discussion in 'VR and AR' started by wco81, Sep 26, 2018.

  1. wco81

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    Do they all show those disembodied on-screen hands?
     
  2. hughJ

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    It was decided some years back that disembodied hands are preferable to having an IK driven arms/skeleton that invariably produces mismatches. Unknown shoulder width and elbow position results in a lot of degrees of freedom that an IK model has trouble predicting simply based on hand and head 6dof tracking. This echos the general rule of thumb in VR where you're better off having fewer points of reference that are dead-on accurate than more points of reference where some are inaccurate.
     
  3. wco81

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    I mean I get the need for showing the hands, since it's suppose to be the ultimate render of FP POV.

    But you can do that without VR HMD too.

    It's just that I guess the camera will pan or tilt up and down based on your head movements instead of you controlling the camera through a controller.

    Don't find this video or the light saber robot compelling.

    But I guess FPS is one of the most popular gaming genres so VR naturally models the FP POV.
     
  4. hughJ

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    If the content you're interacting with requires you to physically manipulate things in the environment then you either need hands or some other visual representation of a tool. In the case of the Touch controllers you have a hand position and grip button designed intentionally to mirror a neutral hand pose and gripping action, so having a hand model represented in the UI is actually pretty natural (as opposed to the Vive wands where you're more so holding a handle/utensil). If you're using a VR app that's dedicated to a particular tool then you can forego the representation of the hand model and simply show the tool; your brain naturally fills in the gaps, just as it does for the missing forearm when it's a disembodied hand.

    I guess I don't understand this at all. Have you used VR? Because those rendered hands are millimeter accurate to your actual hand position. There's a thing called, "hand presence" where your brain actually accepts that those virtual hands are your hands, and interaction feels 1:1, rather than some kind of remote controlled response.
     
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  5. Karamazov

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    Creed boxing game shows your entire body
     
  6. Karamazov

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    It is the big problem of VR demo vidéos, that does not do VR justice at all, it has to be experienced to understand, it's not Just a screen strapped on your head, it's like wearing a diving mask that throws you into an other world. The sense of presence inside the game cannot be shown in videos.
     
  7. Picao84

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    It is obvious from all his posts about VR that he hasn't experienced VR with 6DoF. His observations about VR never make sense. Maybe he has only ever tried Mobile VR. I believe I asked him in the past if he used it, but never got an answer back.
     
  8. Silent_Buddha

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    That itself has some drawbacks though. For example, the Zelda like game that you showed above. For me, there's a huge disconnect between me waving my hands around and seeing the sword map to it 1:1. My brain knows that swords don't operate like that (I was in the SCA for many years and did a lot of real swordplay), so there's an instant dislike/weirdness when I see or experience something like that (other VR games with sword type implements).

    That was something I was looking forward to from VR as I haven't had the luxury of participating in SCA events for many years now. But the first time I tried something like that in VR, it instantly made me regret trying it. The disappointment was palpable and the experience so unrealistic that it instantly drew me out of the game ruining any sense of presence that VR usually gives you.

    That's something that VR really needs to solve IMO. While waving a real "sword" or sword like stick isn't practical, perhaps some sort of weighted controller that's like a little barbell with weight being offset coming out of the hand to simulate the heft and inertia that exists with real swords.

    Then again with how out of shape many gamers are, approximating the physics of a real sword may be a bit much. Even with training, swinging a real sword around for more than a couple minutes can be exhausting. :)

    I'm not sure there's a solution for something like this in VR. Although I guess for some people, seeing a sword being waved around like a flyswatter is fine. :p

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  9. Karamazov

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    but playing with a sword like controller in a small room....:

    [​IMG]

    you complaint is legit, BUT, as is, it's still more reallistic than controlling it with an analog stick on a 2D screen !
     
    #49 Karamazov, May 24, 2019
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  10. Silent_Buddha

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    For some, to me, it's less immersive just because it's so incredibly unrealistic and at odds to what I expect when swinging a weapon when it comes to anything melee combat related that isn't basically just using your fists or maybe light sabers.

    That basically makes VR a bad experience when it comes to melee weapon combat based games.

    Even with guns, I'm taken out of the game somewhat just because I'm expecting to feel the weight of a weapon. With pistol type guns it's not so bad. But with rifles it's really horrible unless the controllers are rigidly held in a rifle like configuration with some external hardware device.

    I guess having had extensive experience with a variety of weapons both guns and melee (swords, staves, daggers, etc.), VR emulations of those types of things feels less immersive than using a mouse and keyboard for me. At least with a traditional game, you aren't drawn out of the game by everything "feeling" wrong and not matching what you are seeing.

    While VR presents a more immersive visual representation of what is going on, that more immersive visual representation clashes significantly more when paired with completely un-immersive controls (weight, model, physics, etc.). Something that a traditional game doesn't have to deal with.

    It's one of the reasons I built a Pinball Cabinet for use with VR pinball. Otherwise I was constantly being taken out of the game by having to use a controller.

    Regards,
    SB
     
    #50 Silent_Buddha, May 25, 2019
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
  11. hughJ

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    On top of all that, lightsabers themselves are pretty incongruous in concept and their action. Despite the fact that their blades should weigh almost nothing, the original films' lightsaber fights were more choreographed with slow and deliberate swings. The prequels then upend that by going the 'faster and more intense' route and treated them as if they weighed nothing at all.

    There was a hardware team a few years back (some university research team, from what i recall) called Tactical Haptics that had an interesting dynamic grip system that could simulate small sensations of rotational and directional inertia/resistance by actuated sliders on the grip. Basically they would slide in the opposite direction of the force they were simulating, causing you to feel the mass of the controller momentarily tug or twist in your grip. Certainly wasn't a complete solution, but reports seemed very positive when paired with content that had appropriate sized tools/weapons.
     
  12. wco81

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    No I've not tried VR and am not inclined to try it.

    I don't like FPS games and it seems VR games are centered around those types of genres.

    My favorite genre is sports games. They've tried FPV in sports games and they all suck. For better or worse, people experience sports through a TV-type of presentation, which means a wide camera, separated from the action.

    They are offering VR renditions of NBA games if you have VR HMDs or even the Google Cardboard.

    I understand the desire for more immersion and the belief that VR gives you a more "real" view of what participants in a shooting situation would experience. But if a game is well-designed, immersion isn't a problem, no matter what kind of POV it employs. I don't see the gains being worth strapping something on your face.


    I just got a drone and have shot some 360 panos. I know I can upload them to sites which let you view with VR HMD. That might be the kind of thing I'd be interested in checking out but so far these VR games don't look that interesting.
     
  13. Entropy

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    VR is more immersive. It aims to transport you into an artificial reality, and while lacking in several respects, does a better job of it than anything else.
    But VR games are not necessarily of a quality that pulls you in and engages you. The two aspects are mostly distinct.
    It is worth noting that some of the most appreciated games, such as beat saber, makes no effort whatsoever to create a believable environment. It’s sort of a modern version of Space Invaders. "Realism" never had much to do with overall game quality, and that is still true in VR.
     
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  14. cheapchips

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    Go on, try it, you might like it! ;)

    VR really isn't like on screen first person at all. It's different enough that what you'd think of as simple, tired game actions can be fun again.


    Agree. It's in part because first person on a flat screen doesn't give you anything like the situational awareness your embodied vision does. In a real game of ballthings you can see the whole pitch in less than a second. In a first person sports game you lose that, which is why 3rd person works so much better.

    There's potential for great VR sports games, since look around is like real life. It'd be interesting to see where you'd draw the line between realism and assisted skills there.
     
  15. Karamazov

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    my most wanted incoming game

     
  16. Karamazov

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  17. Karamazov

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  18. Karamazov

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  19. Picao84

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    So, why are you discussing VR at all?? It makes no sense to discuss something you have zero knowledge about and it shows, since you say things that make zero sense to someone who tried VR. It's a pointless discuss for both you and us.
     
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  20. wco81

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    Cuz I like to rain on other people's parade. :D


    There's insane hype around VR and AR. It's worth discussing the downsides.
     
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