Oblivion WOW factor off the scales for console gamers?

Sis said:
One major gripe I have with the game is pop-in. It is truly horrific at times, especially when I'm out exploring the countryside and see a small non-descript island. Only by walking a bit closer do I suddenly see a large, very interesting fort pop in to view.

But I'll be honest and say that regardless of any technical issue, this game is the most enjoyable game I've played in a long, long time. The thread title captures the essence: the "wow" factor is off the scales. I must have spent an hour just clearing the street outside my house of some dead bodies (they got rough with me and the guards dealt with them :devilish: ). The physics were such that I could only carry the lightest of the bunch, and even then only after I'd taken all their items out, and even then all I could do was a small, tedious drag. However, later on I leveled up my strength and returned to the rest of the bodies and I was able to dump them in the river as well. Definitely a unique experience.

I have to agree on both counts. Pop-In is really quite bad, especially when you get out into the outer reaches, like the swamps are just horrible with huge shifts in LOD quality constantly.

With that said, best game I've played since KOTOR. Ridiculously good. I'm 45 hours in still haven't touched the main quest. I'm Arch-Mage of Cyrodil and elite Silencer for the order of the Black Hand though!

I was always a huge JRPG fan, but I'm really starting to prefer western RPG's over japanese now, does anyone else find this shift occuring?
 
scooby_dooby said:
I have to agree on both counts. Pop-In is really quite bad, especially when you get out into the outer reaches, like the swamps are just horrible with huge shifts in LOD quality constantly.

With that said, best game I've played since KOTOR. Ridiculously good. I'm 45 hours in still haven't touched the main quest. I'm Arch-Mage of Cyrodil and elite Silencer for the order of the Black Hand though!

I was always a huge JRPG fan, but I'm really starting to prefer western RPG's over japanese now, does anyone else find this shift occuring?


Well first of all I'm loving Oblivion, but I just find Western RPGs and J-RPGs to be different animals. JRPGs are as much about the emotion in the story - and the story itself - as anything else. Western RPGs when done right come at the immersion from a different angle, and in allow you to more craft your own 'role' in the RPG. I think both have their definite merits.

Anyway with Oblivion I'm like ~15/20 hours in, but really just the way I approach these games I bring my own real-world morality into the game world. Thus I've only now deviated from the main story. Not being overly familiar with the Elder Scr9olls world, I've been doing some research to try and determine what sort of feelings and background my Nightblade Dunmer would have, and try to play those out. (I'm in depth, yeah?)

So if anyone's all up in the lor of Elder Scrolls, feel free to give me your viewpoint. Never played Morrowind; post Tribunal (and what's the deal with Vivec?) are the Dunmer back to worshipping the 'good' Daedra, or what's going on? Might make that city in the East (who's name I forget right now) my home base if only because it would remind my character a little of home I imagine.
 
scooby_dooby said:
I have to agree on both counts. Pop-In is really quite bad, especially when you get out into the outer reaches, like the swamps are just horrible with huge shifts in LOD quality constantly.

With that said, best game I've played since KOTOR. Ridiculously good. I'm 45 hours in still haven't touched the main quest. I'm Arch-Mage of Cyrodil and elite Silencer for the order of the Black Hand though!

I was always a huge JRPG fan, but I'm really starting to prefer western RPG's over japanese now, does anyone else find this shift occuring?

I have to agree with you, even though I'm a big fan of both Japanese and western RPGs. I always loved the strong storylines, colorful characters, and crazy ass over-the-top battle moves in JRPGs. I'd hate to say it though, but it seems like they just keep regurgitating the same garbage lately. I've been having more fun with Oblivion than I've had with any of the DC/PS2/XBOX/GC era JRPGS.

I went into the library in one of the mages' guilds and pulled every single book off of all the shelves and piled them on the floor. Seeing people kick through all the books just to walk around was hilarious. Also, I threw a dead sheep at someone! Every game should have physics like this.
 
xbdestroya said:
Well first of all I'm loving Oblivion, but I just find Western RPGs and J-RPGs to be different animals. JRPGs are as much about the emotion in the story - and the story itself - as anything else. Western RPGs when done right come at the immersion from a different angle, and in allow you to more craft your own 'role' in the RPG. I think both have their definite merits.

i think what I liek most about the westeren RPG's is that they allow you more control, freedom of choice to affect the story. I'm thinking of KOTOR, Oblivion, even Fable to some extent. In most JRPG's you really seem to be a spectator, along for the ride, and while that has always been great in the past, I feel like that's getting old now and they gotta move forward.

When I look back a FFX which I thought was a great game, it just doesn't comapre to the experience I had playing KOTOR or now Oblivion, where you actually control & efefct the world you're in, can be evil, or good, or anything in between, and even have different endings, I'm really starting to desire that same sort of freedom in all RPG's now...
 
Right, well those are all the same reasons I like Western RPGs too, to be sure. And Oblivion deserves all the scores it's earning in the reviews.

Still though there's an artistic quality that draws me to certain JRPGs. It's true that you are more or less a spectator, but there's a certain sense of tragedy that's conveyed in some of these titles that really strikes a chord with me. I can't imagine ever shedding a tear at a plot twist in a Western RPG for example, but there have been JRPGs that have made me cry - and yeah, I'm not ashamed to admit that.

Oblivion though is presently 'Best in Show.' Of that certainly there is no dispute.

Anyway I'm not trying to compare the game to any other really, just wanted initially to comment on how I like the physics and how I like the game.
 
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xbdestroya said:
Right, well those are all the same reasons I like Western RPGs too, to be sure. And Oblivion deserves all the scores it[s earning in the reviews.

Still though there's a certain artistic quality that draws me to certain JRPGs.
Ya I hear you on that, I love the whole JRPG thing where they mix industrial w/ magic, FF style. The art and setting are my favourite parts about them, someone really needs to merge the look & feel of eastern rpg's with the dynamic storylines and self-determination of western rpg's.

Bioware tried with Jade Empire, and they did come close, but it just wasn't epic enough, and the art style wasn't as awesome as it would've been coming from SE or something.
 
I dunno...just somethin cool about it. Seems to be more unique than when western dev's try. Though I must say, Heavenly Sword loooks as good as anything I've ever seen.

Lost Odyssey looks great as far as art style goes:
lost-odyssey-20051202031227048.jpg

lost-odyssey-20050802105035506.jpg

lost-odyssey-20050802105036131.jpg
 
I used to like JRPG. but for the last 7-6 years i feel most of the jrpgs that have been coming down the pipe are regurgutated crap! the styles are nice but it feels like theres no meat to me or a hallow game so all have been rents. so been turning to the western rpgs more.

to me jrpgs are like reading a book then playing a game, i seem to go through the motions of playing just to get to the next chapter i beleive they should just be called adventure games becuase your not really role playing anything in jrpgs. where Wrpgs are more of a true RPG and to me more enjoyable becuase. example 200 + hrs from a single game where somthing like the jrpgs will give you about 30 hrs of game play
 
xbdestroya said:
Well let me ask the question differently then... without the hard drive, do the bodies remain in perpetuity?
I used the hard drive cache clear mechanism and the dead bodies where still around. I believe this confirms that the hard drive does not enable that level of persistence...
 
scooby_dooby said:
I was always a huge JRPG fan, but I'm really starting to prefer western RPG's over japanese now, does anyone else find this shift occuring?
In my opinion, it's not a true comparison anymore. Even my beloved Dragon Quest XIII is not really in the same category as Oblivion. Western RPGs, I think, tend more towards true role playing, while JRPGs tend more towards interactive storytelling.

I will add, though, that I grow tired of Bioware's conversation-tree laden games. I LOVED Jade Empire for the short time I could tolerate it; but in the end, I grew extremely tired at the tedius nature of choosing the right dialog response. After a day at work of thinking entirely too much, the last thing I wanted to do was have to think about every single response. I like Oblivion's mechanism where I'm basically gathering information and my actions are what dictate my nature.
 
***SLIGHT SPOILER***



I heard a story from someone on the Oblivion boards, and it struck me as a great example of the Radiant AI enabling new things in gaming... Apparently this NPC who was addicted to skooma (an illegal drug) came up to him and asked for money, but the guy knowing that the NPC was addicted to skooma instead game him some skooma. The guy promptly returns to some house where some buddies of his were and starts smoking the skooma. Later on, the NPC goes outside and is set upon by a gang of skooma dealers and cries out for help! All of this was seen by the player because they decided to follow this NPC around for the day.

***END SPOILER***

***MORE SPOILERS***

Anyway, to answer your questions xbdestroya, after Morrowind the Dunmer (the settled ones anyway) continue worshipping the Tribunal because it would be a crisis if they found out that the Tribunal weren't really gods and thus you're told to keep it secret. The wild Dunmer continue worshipping the Aedra (the good Daedra). You find out in Oblivion that Vivec has gone missing (which you can guess why if you've played through Tribunal), and the Nerevarine traveled to some other land (I can't remember which one... kinda tired at the moment).

***END MORE SPOILERS***

This game looks great (I own it for the PC, and being able to turn up the draw distance for the high res textures on the environment is awesome). The AI is amazing at times, and I think groundbreaking... The NPC's will eat, sleep, wander around, and it's all unscripted... The sheer amount of things in the game is staggering, and there's something really fun about being able to go anywhere anytime you want.
 
Sis said:
I used the hard drive cache clear mechanism and the dead bodies where still around. I believe this confirms that the hard drive does not enable that level of persistence...
I'm not sure that's true.

It could be in the game save rather than just the cache. The game saves are huge, almost 1 megabyte and I'm not even 10 hours in yet. It grows with each save also.

The cache gets filled again everytime the game is loaded.
 
Tap In said:
I'm not sure that's true.

It could be in the game save rather than just the cache. The game saves are huge, almost 1 megabyte and I'm not even 10 hours in yet. It grows with each save also.

The cache gets filled again everytime the game is loaded.

I think you misunderstood what he was saying. If the locations of bodies/objects are stored in the game save file (rather than the cache), then they will be saved whether you're using the HDD or a memory card. In other words, the HDD isn't required for persistence.
 
Shark Sandwich said:
I think you misunderstood what he was saying. If the locations of bodies/objects are stored in the game save file (rather than the cache), then they will be saved whether you're using the HDD or a memory card. In other words, the HDD isn't required for persistence.

ahhh yes.

thanks :smile:

are 360 memory cards large enough to hold the game saves with the bodies and such?
 
Tap In said:
ahhh yes.

thanks :smile:

are 360 memory cards large enough to hold the game saves with the bodies and such?

The 360 memory cards are 64 MB if I'm not mistaken, so they should have plenty of room. I'm actually surprised the save files don't take up even more room, given the immense number of object positions and other variables they have to keep track of.
 
Shark Sandwich said:
The 360 memory cards are 64 MB if I'm not mistaken, so they should have plenty of room. I'm actually surprised the save files don't take up even more room, given the immense number of object positions and other variables they have to keep track of.

Yeah, exactly. I also am surprised - but if that's what it is that's what it is!

Mordecaii said:
***MORE SPOILERS***

Anyway, to answer your questions xbdestroya, after Morrowind the Dunmer (the settled ones anyway) continue worshipping the Tribunal because it would be a crisis if they found out that the Tribunal weren't really gods and thus you're told to keep it secret. The wild Dunmer continue worshipping the Aedra (the good Daedra). You find out in Oblivion that Vivec has gone missing (which you can guess why if you've played through Tribunal), and the Nerevarine traveled to some other land (I can't remember which one... kinda tired at the moment).

Ok cool, that 'continued worshipping the Tribunal' thing is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. During my research though, I can correct you in that the Aedra are not the 'good' Daedra, but rather the gods such as the Divine Nine. So just that little bit of background I've picked up. :)
 
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In the collectors edition (and I think the guide book) they have the definitive names natures and history of each race, god and location within Tamriel.

Aedra created the world(s) from the Tower and are the Divine Nine.

Daedra arent gods per se but beings who have acquired divine power. They consistently abide within the world of Oblivion which is a physical region of the world beyond the seas which surround Tamriel.

If needed i can paraphrase the entire creation story for you later...
 
blakjedi said:
Daedra arent gods per se but beings who have acquired divine power. They consistently abide within the world of Oblivion which is a physical region of the world beyond the seas which surround Tamriel.

Looks like I'm the one that should be giving Tamriel lessons here! :p

Actually, the Daedra are more powerful than the Aedra, and have been around just as long. The Aedra lost a bit of their power when Lorkhan convinced them to form the mortal world, but the Daedra didn't go in on that and thus have retained all of their power. Both groupings originally rose from the spilled blood of Anu and Padomay, the Daedra being the unmingled blood of Padomay (change/chaos), and the Aedra being the intermingled blood of both. The umingled blood of Anu became the stars.

Also Oblivion is a different plane of existence that surrounds Nirn - the planet - rather than distant lands on the same planet. There are indeed other continents on Nirn other than Tamriel, and you don't need interdimensional travel to reach them, though Elder Scrolls the game series has yet to leave Tamriel it seems.
 
xbdestroya said:
Looks like I'm the one that should be giving Tamriel lessons here! :p

Actually, the Daedra are more powerful than the Aedra, and have been around just as long. The Aedra lost a bit of their power when Lorkhan convinced them to form the mortal world, but the Daedra didn't go in on that and thus have retained all of their power. Both groupings originally rose from the spilled blood of Anu and Padomay, the Daedra being the unmingled blood of Padomay (change/chaos), and the Aedra being the intermingled blood of both. The umingled blood of Anu became the stars.

Also Oblivion is a different plane of existence that surrounds Nirn - the planet - rather than distant lands on the same planet. There are indeed other continents on Nirn other than Tamriel, and you don't need interdimensional travel to reach them, though Elder Scrolls the game series has yet to leave Tamriel it seems.

Cool. I was just going off of what info was presented in the collectors edition but obviously you have gotten more information through playing the game than is revealed in this 100 page book (liitle book).

"Arena Supermundus: The Tapestry of Heaven


The aim of this guide is to describe the empire of Tamriel as it stands today, but we must at least briefly put it in context by describing what lies beyond us. As vast as Tamriel is, we are only but a one small part of the greater world of Nirn. It is a physical place, but a spiritual one as well, comprising what teachers of mysticism call the Mundus or, more delightfully, the Grey Maybe.

As Cyrodiil is the center point of Tamriel, taking the best of what surrounds her, so Mundus is the center of the Spiritual world, blending the darkness of Oblivion with the searing light of Aetherius. It is sometimes called the Arena here, for forcesare eternally at struggle...."

"The Void of Oblivion

Oblivion is the most dangerous of the Outer Realms, home to the powerful spirits of darkness called the Daedra. Everyone on Tamriel has had some brush with the Capricious Powers, whether it be in dream, or war, or at a festival. Indeed, simply staring into the night sky is enough to visit Oblivion, for it begins where Mundus ends and surrounds those terminals on every side. Its rulers are the immortal Princes of the Void, whose names are many and whose natures are inextricably tied to our own. In the same way mortals are infused with the Nine Divines and other aetherial spirits throue virtue and creation, we also share a relationship with the Royalty of our baser vagaries.

Since Oblivion is coterminous with the plane of Nirn, travel there has happened since time immemorial... The Daedra Lords, here from the start, have through long eons hoarded so much surplus existence that they have built not only their own domains but much more besides... Interested reades are encouraged to seek out the works of Master Zenas of the Mages Guild or the Imperial Geographic Society's own Census of Daedra Lords."

"The Magic of Aetherius

...Aetherius, ancestral seat of the Nine Divines and other original spirits, is the plane pure magicka...Aetherius is the home to the Aedra, those cornerstones of the Mundus whose aspects we see in temple, lordship, and the high walk of heroes.

Visits to Aetherius occur even less frequently than to Oblivion, for the void is a long expanse, and only the stars offer portal for aetherial travel... Their only legacy is the Royal Imperial Mananauts of the Elder Council and the great Orrery at Firsthold, whose spheres are made up of genuine celestial mineral gathered by travelers during the Merethic Era."

Thanks for the further insight XBD!
 
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