nVidia's Jen-Hsun Huang speaks out on X-Box 2 possibility.

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http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/5093202.htm

In 2000, Nvidia snared the account to provide the graphics chip for Microsoft's Xbox game console, which has proved both a blessing and a curse.

The announcement leaked out prematurely because of a celebratory e-mail Chief Executive Jen-Hsun Huang sent to his staff, and that eventually prompted a Securities and Exchange Commission investigation into the company. Dealing with that was one of the first distractions for management.

Huang took a $200 million advance on revenue from Microsoft and used it to put more than 200 engineers on the Xbox chip.

The team missed its initial deadlines but still managed to send enough chips to enable Microsoft to ship 1.5 million consoles in the last six weeks of 2001.

Despite the strong launch, the Xbox faltered in Japan and Europe. And Xbox has only sold 8 million units globally so far, compared with Sony's PlayStation 2, which has crossed the 50 million mark.

Xbox chips account for about 20 percent of Nvidia's sales, although Nvidia has had to put some money in a reserve while it works through a legal arbitration with Microsoft over pricing.

The most difficult thing about the Xbox deal was that it forced the company to distract itself from its core market: graphics chips for desktop personal computers.

Given all the difficulties with the Xbox, Huang has to figure out how badly he wants to participate in the next version of the game machine.

Huang said the price dispute hasn't hurt Nvidia's relationship with Microsoft. But he added that his company can't afford huge distractions, particularly if Microsoft isn't willing to match the kind of multibillion-dollar investment that Sony is making in its next-generation PlayStation 3 console.

``We would be delighted to work with Microsoft on the next Xbox, but we are a company with many opportunities,'' Huang said.

Indeed, Nvidia has explored the possibility of working with Sony instead, although a deal is unlikely because Sony is already working with IBM, Toshiba and Rambus, and Sony is expected to do its own graphics chip for the new console.

Huang said he remains focused on the battle with ATI Technologies.

``After the way the first Xbox went, I would view Nvidia's involvement with the next Xbox as a negative,'' said Joe Osha, an analyst at Merrill Lynch, who does not own Nvidia stock and whose company does not have a banking relationship with Nvidia.

Doesn't seem nVidia is to keen on making a new chipset for the X-Box 2 unless Microsoft forks over lots of cash.
 
Thats too bad, because really, they're the only company I'd really trust to make the Xbx2 a success.
 
I´d say that MS will get a graphics card from them, I´d be one of the most surprised if they don´t. Something is telling me that every time I see any mention of Xbox 2.
I do not know much about graphics card makers, but who would be left if it wasn´t Nvidia? ATI seems to have a very strong relationship with Nintendo.
 
Imho Microsoft needs nv for the XBox 2. It would be difficult to maintain backwards compatibility if they choose/have to go with another company. And they don't need to find just someone who would do the gfx-core. NV took care of the sound- and I/O-core too, remember?
Ati is out of the question imho. The former SGI/ArtX-guys have been working with Nintendo for almost 10 years now (I think the Nintendo/SGI-partnership was announced in 1993) and they seem to have a very strong relationship so I don't see them changing sides. PowerVR would be the only company left then (I don't see SiS or Via/S3 getting an XBox2 contract ;) ).

Huang basically said that they would do it if MS is willing to pay them enough. So I think that's exactly what MS is going to do :)
 
CeiserSöze said:
Ati is out of the question imho. The former SGI/ArtX-guys have been working with Nintendo for almost 10 years now (I think the Nintendo/SGI-partnership was announced in 1993) and they seem to have a very strong relationship so I don't see them changing sides.

While I agree with you over all and nVidia is probobly just playing the buisness game - actually the same type of thing MS did to nVidia last time around by using GigaPixel - anyways.

Just so you know, In ATI's last quarters CC [IIRC] the CEO of ATI [Dave Ortiz? or something to that effect] was entitled to a significant bonus if ATI was the reciepient of a large contract - most assumed this to be Xbox - Next
 
Magnum PI said:
why not the next nintendo ?

I doubt another Nintendo-contract would justify such a bonus (it's quite huge, so this deal has to be huge too) because another Nintendo-deal wouldn't be very extraordinary considering the strong relationship between the two companies.
If Ati decides to change sides, Nintendo would be in trouble though because then they would be the one who have to find another partner. And Ati doing both, XBox 2 and GCN 2, now that's very unlikely imho ;)
 
CeiserSöze said:
Magnum PI said:
why not the next nintendo ?

I doubt another Nintendo-contract would justify such a bonus (it's quite huge, so this deal has to be huge too) because another Nintendo-deal wouldn't be very extraordinary considering the strong relationship between the two companies.
If Ati decides to change sides, Nintendo would be in trouble though because then they would be the one who have to find another partner. And Ati doing both, XBox 2 and GCN 2, now that's very unlikely imho ;)

nintendo not having ATI wouldn't be more in trouve than MS not having nvidia...
 
I don't follow closely at all, but I remember hearing that Microsoft has quite a few microprocessor designers still working for them back from, and even earlier than, Fahrenheit or Talisman or some such API buzzword involvement.
 
Call me crazy, but I think that there is a good chance that neither ATI nor Nvidia will end up with Xbox Next contract, but rather some else... perhaps PVR. It is clear that evolvement in the development of the next-generation console GPU is going to sap huge amount of recourses from either company, jeopardizing their position in the primary market. Furthermore, it seems to me that console contracts are not hugely profitable compared to the sales of comparable CPUs to PC industry, and the pricing structure is rigid and controlled by the manufacturer. I think there might be a point where companies like ATI and Nvidia will have more to lose then to gain from such contract, unless on the console manufactures drops out, thus stabilizing the market somewhat.

PVR makes an ideal candidate in this regard. They seem to have the technology but are unable to successfully adapt it to the PC, and have very little to lose by committing all their recourses (As meager as they are) solely to console development. Furthermore, being an IP company, they would give the manufacturer greater flexibility (One MS/N/Whoever buys the IP, they themselves can make manufacturing arrangements).
 
Microsoft would have plenty of alternatives to look at. Creative/3DLabs, Intel, Via/S3, Matrox (they aren't dead yet, and a contract like this might be just bail them out).

Also, I don't think NVIDIA's decision would be based on money. At least, not directly on money, not from a profit standpoint. I think his comments imply that NVIDIA would like to do it only if Microsoft would be willing to budget enough to build a truely extraordinary graphics design, that would be as much, or even more impressive compared to Cell as the X-Box is compared to the PS2 now. The NV2A was not much more than a tweaked version of the desktop product being designed along with it. I think NVIDIA would like the ability to push the XBox 2 chip far ahead of where the desktop development is (and of course let their desktop chips draft along behind it to improve them as well).
 
Nvidia didn't like what happened later on with their M$ contract. I think they'll be a bit timid going into another console contract and want a lot of upfront money and/or security.

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft is currently asking ATI about developing the next chip, even with ATI's ties to Nintendo.

Speng.
 
Neither side is going to come right out and say they "need" each other. admitting something like that publically would end up putting that person between a rock and a hard place when it comes to negotiating. Anyway, a lot can change in 3 years.
 
I don't find emulating the xbox on an xbox 2 would be that hard. You figure the radeon 9700 pro deleivers almost double the framrates as a geforce 3 and does dx9 imagine what the video card ati has in 2005 will do. I'm sure most of the xbox games are designed in dx8. So any card that can support the dx8 spec in hardware and a fast speed cpu will be able to run a xbox game.
 
Forgetting something...

I remember hearing that the Xbox graphics is built around DirectX API. With that, I can see how ATI, Matrox, S3, SiS, PVR or Creative (I'm sure I left some companies off) could build the graphics card and maintain backwards compatibility with the Xbox, without emulation :)
 
I remember hearing that the Xbox graphics is built around DirectX API. With that, I can see how ATI, Matrox, S3, SiS, PVR or Creative (I'm sure I left some companies off) could build the graphics card and maintain backwards compatibility with the Xbox, without emulation

Not all IHV's impliment the same features in the same ways. There is very little commonality between the fundimental architectures of each IHVs design - especially I'd assume when designing around a fixed console where you can take things like texel cache or the Hiarchial (sp) Z into account, where each IHV has propietory routines, with diffrent levels stored on on-chip buffers. We'll atleast i'd assume so - If I'm wrong correct me please.

Qroach said:
:rolleyes: Nvidia releases one video card late and you're all over them like it's a bad habit?

Didn't you get the TPS Report? ATI is also the pre-eminent back-end hardware designer, whose able to form their designs with all the skill of a modern Hephaestus.

Ohh, and ATI has also fed the homeless and replanted the Amazon Basin where nVidia had tried to chop it all down so they could built their secret lair.
 
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