nVidia's GPP program is just a legally enforced GITG from hell?

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by digitalwanderer, Mar 8, 2018.

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  1. CSI PC

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    BTW still only 2 said I was being apologetic to GPP, again look at my recent posts and if you think that.

    Back with just the HardOCP article (when the Grall discussion took place I think) a lot of the arguing was around that AMD would not be able to sell a gaming model GPU from an Nvidia partner.
    One is still selling AMD 'Gaming' products as in the AMD 580 Gaming Box new launch, which due to Kyle's vagueness some meant would not be possible.
    The argument could be shifted to say "ah but it is not under Aorus like the Nviida one", but Kyle was adamant no Gaming brands would be allowed for AMD products if you followed his posts or happily allowed to be reported as such by other publications from his article - context arguing from a position based on an article before we saw how it has started to pan out.
    MSI Gaming is restricted to Nvidia (how serious an impact this is comes down to ones POV and perception of their Gaming X and Gaming Z models), but their website is more neutrally structured in terms of just two brand categories (not talking about model naming) being Nvidia and AMD;
    In comparison Gigabyte has; Aorus, Xtreme Gaming, G1 Gaming, Nvidia, AMD - a bad situation but in retail you still clearly get Gaming model named AMD products even if it is not ideal because of Aorus without Gaming.

    The Asus situation, some or many (no-one really knows) will not be happy unless the GPU says ROG STRIX rather than just STRIX.
    But for now their website still shows all under ROG banner even though reports say they are only now sold as STRIX by retailers.
    However both boxes for AMD and Nvidia only say STRIX and without ROG on it from what I can tell looking at current photos.

    So not as clear cut as initial assumptions made it out to be unless one really wants to oversimplify it.
    The only clear cut aspect so far is the tier partner relationship and whether in/out and its context (explained some of that earlier).

    Edit:
    Purpose of this post is to show just how inconsistent this is panning out relative to what was argued and assumed in the beginning (which is where earlier discussions started with Grall that you quoted against me) and this will change the level of impact based upon consumer behaviour
    The consistent aspect that can be simplified is the partner relationship provided by the GPP which brings the relationship closer to what AMD has with Sapphire but on an industrial scale; something that AIB Partners pretty clearly feel is a pressure to miss out on and especially so if several partners sign up as they lose greater competitiveness.
    The other partner relationship negative is if one also accepts Kyle's comment that Nvidia is blackmailing them with a nod and wink.

    Edit: 2
    Toned down 23/03
     
    #141 CSI PC, Mar 21, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  2. Sxotty

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    I have to say this thread is long, but unless something new came out I do not really understand all the ire.


    The only thing I can say would be "bad" was if Nvidia actually withheld or charged more for chips. I do not see any company having an obligation to advertise another companies products as a sensible relationship.

    Why does any company have to advertise another companies products?

    Do you really think it is so crazy that Nvidia do not want to spend their money advertising ROG to sell AMD graphics cards? It is totally understandable to me. Why does this even exist aside from a way to control the other company? Asus, gigabyet et. al should just advertise their own products. AMD and Nvidia should advertise for AMD and Nvidia,

    I guess I understand how we got here in that it might cost less in advertising if you combine them, but it inherently makes a conflict of interest and is bad for one of the sides anyway.
     
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  3. Gelanin

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    So you do not feel that breaking the law should cause this ire ?
     
  4. Mize

    Mize 3dfx Fan
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    Cleaned.

    Please stay on topic and refrain from profanity, name-calling and personal attacks.
     
    #144 Mize, Mar 21, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
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  5. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    And there you have it, L:s and G:s... The raw, naked apologism.

    When has NV ever actually DONE that? This is a strawman argument. And again, NV should have a say over another company's use of THEIR OWN brand names why exactly?

    This is called "having cake and eating it." Except, it doesn't work of course, it never does. Either you ignore mining and focus on gaming, or you don't. You can't focus on gaming and ignore mining while at the same time also take advantage of the mining craze with products specifically tailored to that fad, because mining cards and gaming cards compete for the same chip supplies. Building one a card denies the other a card; it's a zero-sum game.
     
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  6. patienceofasaint

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    And now the topic is about mining? With two senior members throwing out likes to anyone who follows their lead.

    If a person wanted to read this thread to know more about Nvidias GPP program they would have a hard time following the conversation. And maybe that's the point?
     
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  7. entity279

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    [...]

    Please tone down your rethoric. It's quite difficult to follow when facts are spiced up with these dramatic and stylistic insertions of your own. Especially when the topic here is quite different from this mining discussion.

    We (with the permission of other readers, sorry if i include anyone who does not wish so) don't really care in what stage you consider people here to be. So you might as well not care about them (me, us) as much as to evaluate them.
     
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  8. pharma

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    In reference to above, it's pretty obviously that Gigabyte has not come up with a brand name for AMD, but is really a no-brainer to realize once they do both brand names will be advertised for major entertainment events and promotions. I guess IHV support in terms of literature, promotions, marketing assistance, etc... should determine the extent to which advertising is carried out for each brand.

    Edit: Corrections.
     
    #148 pharma, Mar 22, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2018
  9. Esrever

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    Whether AMD or Nvidia is marketing their cards for crypto literally have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

    Stop hiding behind that because it's just a straw man.
     
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  10. Picao84

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    Seriously, get a grip and fly back from cuckoo land. AMD, just like nVIDIA started doing, is marketing to a brand new market. They would be stupid if they did not. That does not mean it is their top priority. Are you attending their strategy meetings? I guess not, so stop putting words in their mouth.

    Are you always obtuse like this or just today? Obviously their mining SKUs will not be locked doh!!!! When I quoted Quadro it should have been obvious to you what I meant! Just like Quadro always had access to functionality GeForces don't!

    Oh no, you fully understand my point. It just does not fit the narrative you tried so hard to bring into this thread to derail it. I bit on it, but no more. I won't help your agenda further.
     
  11. Mize

    Mize 3dfx Fan
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    No. Like the majority of home-miners I have 6 GPUs in my NV rig.
     
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  12. Mize

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    This is a very good point. I would encourage people to try to stick to the Nvidia GPP topic.

    Just did a reread of the last page and, folks, STOP the NV vs. AMD thing. I'm about to lock this thread and delete every X vs. Y post.
     
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  13. Gelanin

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    Cleaning up this thread would be welcome.
    Locking it would be a mistake imho, it means the ones trying to derail the discussion "wins".
     
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  14. BRiT

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    #154 BRiT, Mar 23, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
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  15. CSI PC

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    The excuse Gigabyte gave is pretty ridiculous and IMO a reflection of their trainwreck of their whole product strategy and website, along with what seems their historical focus (come onto that below)
    As an example in past only those GPUs (context GPUs) using the Aorus cooling solution were put under Aorus hence the 580/570 and also the situation of a ridiculous number of Nvidia cards which tbh only needed the most extreme versions.
    So technically neither the Nvidia or AMD GPU box should be under Aorus as neither have the cooling design that goes beyond Windforce.

    What stands out separate to the debacle they are currently facing.
    No custom Vega GPUs in Aorus only under Gigabyte-AMD series and the model launched some time ago, to me that would make a lot of sense to use Aorus rather than just 570 and 580.
    So I looked back to Fury to see how Gigabyte structured their product strategy along with the website.
    And again absolutely no consistency with the Fury/Fury X under Gigabyte-AMD series while other 3xx and 4xx had models under the G1 Gaming; how the heck could they screw it up so badly.
    Further showing no consistency for AMD the last G1 Gaming product for AMD seems to be 4xx and since then everything from 5xx onwards is lumped under the Gigabyte-AMD series generally but now with the name 'Gaming' for certain models.

    Seems Gigabyte really had no (and still does not) coeherent strategy for AMD or as precise a focus as they do for Nvidia even back then, if one really wants to be critical Gigabyte really did/do not see AMD in same way they do Nvidia, resulting in unequal treatment going back some time in context of dGPUs, reinforced by Nvidia historically with the Xtreme series to themselves above G1 in the past and a better marketing focus-strategy by Gigabyte for Nvidia more generally (still a mess in some ways).
    The reason for this could be many and pretty sure could start its own arguments depending upon POV.
    Stopping the Xtreme series that is only associated with Nvidia (no longer shows as a series on the Gigabyte general top GPU page suggesting it is probably ending especially as it has no 10xx ti models) does not help the product strategy situation, but that is cynically a very strong name relative to a model with Gaming when seen on a GPU box/retailer site.
    Just shows what a mess Gigabyte is in with their product strategy, and yes GPP does compound this for now along with other negative that others feel strongly about depending upon POV and its nuances.
     
    #155 CSI PC, Mar 23, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  16. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    While it's possible that they will come up with "new gaming brand" for AMD, I find it really unlikely.
    What's happening is that NVIDIA "steals" the brands manufacturers have spent years and millions dollars to build. It's not something you can just quickly bring up out of nowhere.

    Edit:
    Also, it's kinda funny, this should mean there can't be ROG/Aorus/Gaming/etc Motherboards for AM4 and Intel LGA115x platforms, since both of those can (or in case of Intel always do) have competing graphics solutions - Raven Ridge APUs on AM4 and all Intel CPUs on LGA115x
     
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  17. ToTTenTranz

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    It's too early to tell, but looking at Gigabyte's actions it seems they'll just scrap the AORUS brand out of anything AMD.

    Then again, it seems their marketing department is still all over the place:

    [​IMG]

    It seems these GPP contracts were made in a hurry and all the AIBs are scrambling stuff in a hurry just to try to make the issue go away as soon as possible.


    I also wonder what they'll do if/when AMD comes up with high-performance gaming APUs for the PC market.
    Or even how they'll handle Kaby Lake G offerings.
    Kaby Lake G is a perfectly good candidate for thin&light gaming laptops. Does GPP prevent only discrete GPUs from being mentioned with the gaming sub-brands, or can we eventually see an AORUS laptop with an Intel Radeon in it?
    That would be fun to watch.
     
  18. entity279

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    So an arrangement a la PC Partner's Zotac & Sapphire would benefit from all the advantages while encountering none of the issues of this program ?
     
  19. Esrever

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    They will benefit until AMD goes bankrupt if AMD's brand loses so much value that nobody is buying AMD.
     
  20. Grall

    Grall Invisible Member
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    Don't forget that Intel is also developing discrete graphics now. Clearly Nvidia is laying pipe in advance for the day when Big Blue is ready for its first discrete GPU launch in 20+ years - assuming they don't get cold feet like they did with Larrabee, and pull out prematurely again that is... (That's the thing with long-term strategies; you have to have one in the first place in order for them to work... :))
     
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