Nvidia Turing Speculation thread [2018]

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Voxilla, Apr 22, 2018.

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  1. Voxilla

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    We are speculating here that Turing is the next gaming GPU architecture. (Ampere already more or less has been declared a false/changed rumour).
    Say Turing is the next generation of Pascal, it doesn't need hardware for NN training, just inferencing.

    What will be called the next generation (next Volta) of HPC GPU (ie NN training/ double precision/ HMB2/NV link etc), we don't know or have not speculated.
    It might also be called Turing or something else.

    if you think the next generation of Volta HPC GPU will be called Ampere, how do you get to this and why do you think it needs higher precision training hardware (Volta is FP16/FP32 mixed precision) ?
     
    #61 Voxilla, Jun 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  2. CSI PC

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    That raises the question is the Int based operations done purely on Int Cuda cores or the Cuda cores support both fp and int; I appreciate some would break it down to ALU but keeping it within Nvidia's context.
    I tend to think it is the latter with the "CUDA core" supporting both, just based on SM (such as SM_60 or SM_61)/Compute capable version.
     
  3. CarstenS

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    I am aware of that, coming from the assumption, they are going with the split you propose. About that, I am not so adamant as you seem to be.
    Additionally, Xavier being INT8 only is reinforced through Nvidia stating „5 TFLOPS FP16 10 TOPS INT8“ and „5 FP16/10 INT8 TOPS DL“ for the DLA.

    So, the next question is: Is INT8 enough for the tasks scheduled in DXR/RTX for the Gameworks modules and possibly more to come? After all, there has to be a gaming oriented architecture. Or will this be a third one besides Turing and Ampere? ;)

    IIRC it was mentioned somewhere (here on the forums) that INT8 were done on separate units.
     
  4. silent_guy

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    That wouldn’t make a lot of sense. They seem to be just another operation of the integer ALU.
     
  5. CSI PC

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    Yeah Int8 is part of the cublasGemmEx that makes up 32-bit.
    From what can be seen dp4a kinda falls into this set, albeit reliant upon CUDA compute core version capability.
     
  6. CarstenS

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    Gonna take a look at it in the evening, maybe I remembered incorrectly.
     
  7. CSI PC

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    OK just found this, yep Int8 and d4pa is just another operation and part of 32-bit CUDA core/ALU (back to interpretation and design of a CUDA core and ALUs and whether the individual CUDA core supports both operations or requires separate CUDA core for Int - personally I feel the single CUDA core supports both but depends upon Compute Capability version with what is achievable).
    https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/...ilizing-__dp4a-instruction-on-nvidia-1080ti-/
    Read TXBobs (moderator with a lot of knowledge and technical experience pertaining to CUDA and the Tesla accelerators) responses lower down:
    OP said
    TXBob responds
     
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  8. ToTTenTranz

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    I don't really know where to put this because there are now 2 different threads about post-Volta because rumors have been pointing out that the next consumer GPUs won't be Volta, but nvidia didn't show or hint at new GPUs at Computex.
    Jen-Hsun Huang did answer a few questions about the next Geforce line:

    By "lunch" I assume "lAunch".

    I don't think all those rumors about nvidia bringing post-Pascal cards during Q2 with a hard launch in Summer will come true.
     
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  9. Xmas

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    According to https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-xavier-faq, "The 512-core Volta GPU with support for Tensor Cores and mixed-precision compute is capable of up to 10 TFLOPS FP16 and 20 TOPS INT8."

    These numbers only make sense for Tensor Cores that support both FP16 and INT8 precision. It's also interesting that this is 8x the stated FP32 performance (standard multiply-add ALU) at FP16 precision. What's left unanswered is if accumulator precision is FP16 or FP32.
     
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  10. Samwell

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    Ok, somehow i missed that and was wrong. So it seems Xavier hasn't got lower precision tensor cores, but the tensor cores have more funcionality and can do Int8 with double speed.

    Because people like Tomshardware were pretty sure about it and Erinyes also mentioned it. It's not a false rumour, just a different product it seems.

    Yeah, probably i was wrong there and as posted above it's double speed Int8 and not lower precision tensor cores. As for RTX, Int8 shouldn't be a problem for that. AI denoising is also just inference.
     
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  11. CarstenS

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    Interestingly, it's now dual DLA engines with combined 5 FP16/10 INT8 OPs, not a single one as in the slides above. Also, I completely missed the apparent fact that Xavier has PCIe 4.
     
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  12. Geeforcer

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    Smugly sitting on the same architecture for the 3rd year while thinking that whatever you have in the pipeline will be sufficient to deal with emerging competitive threats?

    You want to get R300ed/Maxwelled ? Because that’s how you get R300ed/Maxwelled.
     
  13. ToTTenTranz

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    They have one competitor with public-ish roadmaps showing no new consumer cards either, their 2-year-old graphics cards are now starting to sell at MSRP and gamers are happy about it.
    Traditionally, after 1.5 - 2 years the cards would be selling for 50-60% the MSRP. Mining gave them a huge opportunity to just scrap a new architecture using larger dies on 16/12FF (like the 28nm Kepler -> Maxwell transition) and just keep selling the now-cheaper-to-produce GPUs at their initial price.

    It's not really a surprise that ~16 months of graphics card draughts and lack of high-end competition from AMD would change nVidia's traditional release schedule.
     
  14. silent_guy

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    I think it’s still a better strategy than the one of AMD: the past half decade, theirs has been one of being very open about their roadmap and then not delivering. :)
     
  15. Voxilla

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    Good remark, so we can expect gen4 PCIe too on next gen NV GPUs, for ~32 GB/s transfer on a 16-bit bus.
    pcie4.png
    source
     
  16. CSI PC

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    Well since Jensen had to keep fielding the question when the next Geforce model will launch and said what he did, they now have changed the schedule listing at HotChips to TBD.
    In other words, Nvidia does not want the spotlight on the next architecture while they are still selling and just as importantly the narrative for certain solutions/suites available or pushing to raise tech profile, no surprises there as Nvidia did the same previously; cannot really conclude either way from anything public recently with what will happen in next 3-6/9-12 months beyond certain core foundations.

    https://www.hotchips.org/program/
    Look at Day1 11:30.
     
    #76 CSI PC, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  17. Kaotik

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    Actually they changed it before the Computex event and Jensen was asked about that change in particular, to which he responded just "Live in the present. We will invite you to our l(a)unch events"
     
  18. CSI PC

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    Ah ok.
    Still that reinforces my point with his response "Live in the present", fact is they removed it for the reason I gave and unfortunately difficult to reach any conclusions on what Nvidia strategy is beyond certain core foundations; clear narrative (product-tech-solution rather than other aspects people can be critical of) is one fundamental approach Nvidia pushes and why they always try to lessen news-information overlap with regards to generations or product tech/solution; I would not like to predict when Geforce is launching with everything said so far in public; could be 2-3 months (FE type launch) or could be 6-9 months.
     
    #78 CSI PC, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  19. Voxilla

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    Of course NVidia wants to avoid at all cost that people stop buying GPUs in anticipation of next generation GPUs, while they are still able to sell 2 year old GPUs at a premium price in lack of serious competition.
     
  20. entity279

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    Yes, but they wouldn't be that cheap to say "it's a long time" and then launch in the next 2-3 months
     
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