NVIDIA shows signs ... [2008 - 2017]

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by Geo, Jul 2, 2008.

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  1. Demirug

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    The main job of the new DX11 multithread feature is moving driver overhead to another thread. We have an own solution for this on a higher level. I talked about this with Microsoft and they agree that DX11 could not do improve the performances at this point for us.

    CS 4.x support on older hardware has no priority for AMD. This makes CS 4.x an nvidia only feature for quite some time.

    As a DirectX MVP I have access to documentation beyond the SDK. But this doesn’t help either. The whole CS 4.x stuff was a late feature that wasn’t in the original feature set planned for DX11. Therefore it is natural that the documentation is not ready yet.

    I am not sure if CS 4.x will be widely used. CS 5.0 is significant better and in most cases you need a pixelshader fallback. CS 4.x is the middle child that get’s no love.

    We might add CS 4.x support later but we already know that the performances would be worse than 5.0 because of the 4.x limitations.
     
  2. aaronspink

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    Yeah, I read the link. Its a random non-scientific survey. Woopity doo da. As far as shear number of different games, Physx is probably in the lead., as far as number of games sold, Havoc is probably fairly comfortably in the lead.
     
  3. DegustatoR

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    Havok is exactly the same thing as PhysX. LRB just not out yet.
     
  4. Jaaanosik

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    I am just curious. How much is the driver overhead when compared to the whole CPU load of a game?
    Thanks...
     
  5. Groo The Wanderer

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    Do I know the equations? No. Do I do that for a living? No. Do I have at least 3 people who do in my address book that don't mind if I call and ask questions? Yes.

    I started out in college in chemical engineering, then went to chemistry, then biology, and ended up in genetics before I dropped out (ADHD makes it hard to study when you are bored with a topic). I realized that I was making more in computers then than I would ever in biology, so why bother? That said, I took a fair number of matsci courses, tons of csci, and a lot of related science courses. There isn't much difference between a reading a gas/liquid chromatograph and xray materials analysis.

    Did I do the actual sampling and reading? No, I don't have the equipment. Are there any of 20 teardown houses within an hour of your HQ that do? Sure. Are some of them bored? Sure. Do the math, pun intended.

    I wrote it 100% myself, researched it over 2 months or so, and had to up my cell time from 1500 to unlimited after burning through it 3 months straight on the topic. I did have help for things I don't have the lab for. I do have a lot of friends in the valley though, and they have all the toys I need.

    I am pretty sure (but I didn't go dig up my notes), that NV was bitching about chipsets and licensing during the 2007 fall IDF, which would have been a year before I wrote. If I am a year off on this, sorry, but there were public hints long long before it was an open war, you just had to have your ear to the ground. I did.

    They were shouting to the press about how they were licensed, and how teh aswum their stuff would be. They were breaking NDAs left and right telling every analyst who would listen, and the occasional tame journalist, what Intel chips were coming, and what busses they used.

    They were mentioning Bloomfield and Lynnfield by name, and saying CSI and DMI before the NDAs went up, long before. This was done, I think it was Evendon FWIW, to try and sway analysts to pump up the stock. The analysts promptly went to Intel and asked them the questions, and Intel responded.

    I can guarantee you that Intel was NOT pleased about the leaks. If anything, the problem became acute, and the negotiations soured because of Nvidia's moronic insistence to try and publicly up the stakes. Intel doesn't take well to being threatened, nor do they take well to people attempting to hurt their image for monetary gain. Think "whoop-ass".

    NV shot themselves in the foot, and pissed Intel off. Intel had every right to be annoyed at NV's childish behavior. Then again, you can't accuse Nvidia of being overly bright, trying to be a bully from a position of weakness isn't the smartest thing in the world.

    Nvidia has one tool for relationships, be they internal, external, public or private, a hammer. If they don't like you, they hit you and tell you to step into line or you will be hit again. This didn't work with Intel, and the bright 'strategerists' NV likely sunk the company over this. FWIW, it is more or less the same thing they tried with me, do what we say, or we will go after you. I didn't. Intel didn't. Nvidia doesn't have another tool to use.

    -Charlie
     
  6. rpg.314

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  7. Razor1

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    Then why didn't you ask them before you did that article, or add an addedum to your article after all of the sh*t hitting the fan?


    Cool, never doubted your over all intellegence, just the way your articles read......


    No, but as you I do have a lot of connections to information from my past job, which was using GPGPU computing to create an AI for financial models and previous jobs in the game industry.


    I don't agree with what nV did, personally I don't think it was a smart move to play hardball with Intel, but again its a lot of speculation which I see it as a culmination of events that Intel went down the path they did, not one or two occassions.
     
  8. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
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    I doubt AMD would withhold a license. After all, they're the good guys right and HT is supposedly an open standard unlike Quickpath or DMI. Most likely it's that they realized they had no competitive advantage in that space. AMD's IGPs are pretty good and they have the platform advantage. Nforce was only ever good when it was the best thing out there but fared much worse with real competition. Same thing is happening with ION right now, it's doing well because the alternative is shit.
     
  9. flynn

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  10. Groo The Wanderer

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    If I needed to for the article, why do you assume I didn't?

    -Charlie
     
  11. ANova

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    :lol:

    I'd like to hear more about this. Nv's escapades are always entertaining.
     
    #1591 ANova, Oct 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2009
  12. Razor1

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    because you put hot lots = yields in your article, which is not the case if they got 7 chips back from 1 hot lot (4 wafers), they could have been working with yields, they could have been tweaking the chip for performance, they could have been tweaking the chip for power consumption, etc. Without knowing exactly what nV was going for, we don't know anything about those hot lots. Each wafer used in the hot lot is a test, and then they change something else to see how that test effects the chip in a certain expected fashion.
     
    #1592 Razor1, Oct 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2009
  13. Davros

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    Seconded :D
     
  14. Sxotty

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    Except the TGA was the important thing anyway...
    From your link
    I don't understand why you would link to an article that doesn't really support what you said. It just links to another article that supports what you said, then goes on to say Nvidia denies it. Though I am with Triniboy and don't see how Nvidia will have a competitive advantage in the AMD market.
     
  15. rpg.314

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    That bs is from nv pr, from the ars article
    and
     
  16. Groo The Wanderer

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    Fair enough, but I was pretty specific in saying that it was only this lot, and there was another one due later.

    Several people have complained that I used yield in a way that wasn't the same as industry people did, and that is true, but I don't have a better term to describe it to the 99.9% of people reading the article that don't work in the industry.

    To me, yield = good dies/candidates. I didn't say that the whole line, and every one after that was going to be the same. So, for what I was doing, I think it was a valid use of the term. Also, I don't care what they were doing, if 7 came out, 7 came out. I didn't speculate about what they were doing because I don't know, didn't ask, and only marginally care.

    To me, the problem is that there are certain things you need to do with the initial silicon, especially if your ass is to the wall like it is at NV now. 7 isn't enough to do that, and given their 'puppy' piss-poor showing, as opposed to their normal whoop-ass showing, at GTC, it says they don't have enough for the engineering they need to do. From what I understand, the count of real cards shown off at GTC was zero, but there may have been some behind closed doors things that I wasn't clued in on. The ones I was didn't have real silicon.

    Another piece of the puzzle is that they haven't put the respin in yet, or at least they hadn't when I last checked a few days ago. That tells me that the chips is in deep trouble (very likely) and/or they don't have enough silicon to test what they need to test (fairly likely).

    The lack of silicon is the problem that I was pointing to. If it was based on a decision, you have to pat management on the back for being that ballsy, I would never have sent my CEO out on stage to look like a total idiot in front of his most loyal patsies. Then again, I don't get the whole NV culture thing either. If a person I employed did that more than once, I would fire them.

    -Charlie
     
  17. Groo The Wanderer

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    To explain it, I would have to publish a long thread of emails, or at least one summary email. I don't publish emails without permission of the person on the other end, or without extraordinary circumstances. If I can get those permissions, I would be happy to publish them, nothing better than hanging a company with their own words. :) So far, the main protagonist has said no.

    If you are familiar with the company, there isn't much that will surprise you though, just their behaving like they are known to do, and me not playing their games.

    -Charlie
     
  18. Groo The Wanderer

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    And that is such a hard concept to grasp. I think I covered the basics of that in about 6th grade science. The main part to grasp is the curve and how it relates to the real world. That part isn't hard, it was much harder to get the material sheets on it.

    -Charlie
     
  19. AlexV

    AlexV Heteroscedasticitate
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    The Charlie love-train goest through another station. The hate one too. This one is only for nVidia's strained or unstrained status. Gracias.
     
  20. trinibwoy

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