Nvidia GT200b rumours and speculation thread

I think this could really rescue the GT200 series as viable. If you look at the problems, it's not that it's big or monolithic or whatever, it's that it's not fast enough to justify the size. And if you further boil it down, the achilles heal of GT200 is simple clockspeed. That is why a 9800GTX pushes a GT260, because the shaders are clocked so much higher on the 9800 it has nearly as much shader power. And the rest of the core is clocked higher on the 9800 giving it more texture ability as well. GT260 offers more BW, ROPS, and RAM, but in many scenarios those dont come into play.

So basically if GT200b can address the clockspeed problems (as well as cost problems to some extent), it will really help. I also dont see a way for AMD to easily respond, if say the 200B based 260 does trump the 4870. It's not like AMD should have a new chip anytime soon and they're already at 55nm. Of course AMD should still have plenty of cost advantages though.
 
AMD would merely have to increase the clockspeed of the HD 4870 to compete with the theoretical 200b based GTX 260.
 
BRiT said:
AMD would merely have to increase the clockspeed of the HD 4870 to compete with the theoretical 200b based GTX 260.
Click to expand...

Yes but the first question is, can they? Its already pretty power hungry.

And the second question is, how much will the smaller process effect price? If NV could bring the 260 down to the same price as the 4870 while at the same time maintaining its current relative performance then IMO it would be the better buy.
 
Yes. They can. Diamond is releasing a monster overclocked HD 4870. It was mentioned here in one of the numerous threads. I'll see if I can find it again.
 
Hrm. The one bit I find may seem the HD 4870 XOC may be watercooled.

"The firmware was custom designed to enable end users to go beyond the normal over clocked speeds and allow them to push their cards for higher performance via the catalyst control center." The GPU's custom firmware has been unlocked to push cards to GPU settings of up to 950 MHz and Memory of up 1200 MHz.
 
BRiT said:
Hrm. The one bit I find may seem the HD 4870 XOC may be watercooled.

"The firmware was custom designed to enable end users to go beyond the normal over clocked speeds and allow them to push their cards for higher performance via the catalyst control center." The GPU's custom firmware has been unlocked to push cards to GPU settings of up to 950 MHz and Memory of up 1200 MHz.
Click to expand...
[strike]Correc[/strike]Addition: They yet have to release it. Plus, your quote only says, that the BIOS would not be locked to use the clock frequencies.

FWIWI: At the HD2900-Launch AMD guys told me (which was later proved by hardcore-overclockers) that R600 could reach 1.2 GHz in their labs.
 
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To nitpick, it's not a correction. I didn't say they released it, I said are releasing it, as in the process of.

The overclockers at XS don't seem to be having issues with overclocking the cards. That indicates there's room for manufacturers to position OC/SC products.
 
BRiT said:
To nitpick, it's not a correction. I didn't say they released it, I said are releasing it, as in the process of.

The overclockers at XS don't seem to be having issues with overclocking the cards. That indicates there's room for manufacturers to position OC/SC products.
Click to expand...
I am not a native speaker - so please forgive my oversight. :)

WRT OC: Right - as it should be. But normally, OC-versions are limited to 10 to 15 percent OC. Here, we're talking more than 25 percent. But if they will be releasing it, that'd open up yet another can of whoopass(tm). :)
 
Though I do wonder at what price points and performance brackets would the new AMD cards fall into? And how would the Nvidia lineup fair?

Not sure which would be faster given the supposed better scaling of X2 over Crossfire: HD 4870 Crossfire or HD 4850 X2. It'll likely depend on resolution and AA settings.

AMD's lineup?
1. HD 4850 ($155)
2. HD 4870 ($290)
3. HD 4870 OC
4. HD 4850 CrossFire ($310)
5. HD 4850 X2
6. HD 4870 Crossfire ($600)
7. HD 4870 X2 ($499 - $549 ?)

Nvidia's lineup?
1. GTX 260 200 ($300)
2. GTX 260 200b
3. GTX 280 200 ($470)
4. GTX 280 200 SC { Evga Super Clock 621/2268 } ($480)
5. GTX 280 200 SSC { Evga Super Super Clock 648/2322} ($495)
6. GTX 280 200 FTW { Evga FTW 670/2430 } ($549)
6. GTX 280 200b
7. GTX 260 SLI ($600)
8. GTX 280 SLI ($940)
 
Or perhaps the GT200b wasn't significant enough [ of a shrink / provide enough efficiency improvements / improve on yields ] to bother with doing ?
 
I'd like to point out several points

1. Diamond XOC Edition has a stock cooler and is not overclocked to 950 MHz. It's merely 800MHz and probably has a custom designed PCB (in order to make voltage adjustable at all ranges by BIOS). However it's nigh impossible for a 4870 to get past 850MHz with the stock cooler, so people expecting to attain skyrocketing core clocks with regular Diamond XOC are in for a disappointment

2. There are rumors that the 55nm GT200b has already surfaced in the form of "Leadtek Extreme". Interestingly, this board is overclocked to an incredible 738MHz core and 1566MHz shader (although it's listed as 1666MHz, that speed is not attainable with the 27MHz crystal NVidia uses so I'm guessing it's 1566) but uses the stock cooler which IMHO would be totally insufficient for the current GTX 280's. So rumors are that that chip is an 55nm version of GT200 with lower TDP and heat output. Its price is in line with other (much lower) overclocked GTX 280's.
 
I don't see why adding DX10.1 support would take up much space
Click to expand...
I think that may depend on architectural implementation.
It could be that NV would need to do a lot of work to enable 10.1.
Particularly since they spent lots on manually laying out G80 to get that high shader clock.
 
annihilator said:
2. There are rumors that the 55nm GT200b has already surfaced in the form of "Leadtek Extreme". Interestingly, this board is overclocked to an incredible 738MHz core and 1566MHz shader (although it's listed as 1666MHz, that speed is not attainable with the 27MHz crystal NVidia uses so I'm guessing it's 1566) but uses the stock cooler which IMHO would be totally insufficient for the current GTX 280's. So rumors are that that chip is an 55nm version of GT200 with lower TDP and heat output. Its price is in line with other (much lower) overclocked GTX 280's.
Click to expand...

If Nvidia's in for a significant speed bump with GT200b, I'd expect more than 738 core (shader's not bad though), because there already are some pre-OCed versions of plain GTX280 at 700/1400 MHz. If the 55nm shrink is planned primarily for yield reasons - ok. But then they'll have to lower the price again to compete with OCed 4870s.

I wonder what premium tag the 1G versions of HD4870 will be carrying - as GDDR5 supposedly is not cheaper than GDDR3.
 
annihilator said:
I'd like to point out several points

1. Diamond XOC Edition has a stock cooler and is not overclocked to 950 MHz. It's merely 800MHz and probably has a custom designed PCB (in order to make voltage adjustable at all ranges by BIOS). However it's nigh impossible for a 4870 to get past 850MHz with the stock cooler, so people expecting to attain skyrocketing core clocks with regular Diamond XOC are in for a disappointment

2. There are rumors that the 55nm GT200b has already surfaced in the form of "Leadtek Extreme". Interestingly, this board is overclocked to an incredible 738MHz core and 1566MHz shader (although it's listed as 1666MHz, that speed is not attainable with the 27MHz crystal NVidia uses so I'm guessing it's 1566) but uses the stock cooler which IMHO would be totally insufficient for the current GTX 280's. So rumors are that that chip is an 55nm version of GT200 with lower TDP and heat output. Its price is in line with other (much lower) overclocked GTX 280's.
Click to expand...

1. RV770 is now closing post-launch "rev 2". Voltages are down 7% (as in voltage needed for 750Mhz operation), OCs should go up by another 50Mhzs. 900 is now the mark to beat, but that is without voltmods or better cooler reorientation.

2. 1566 and 738 wouldn't need any much help from 55nm. It's doable, but you know these will be rarer than the X850XT PE. When AMD's planning for a double digit thousand orders for the 4870X2 I'm not sure that's the way to counter.
 
pjbliverpool said:
They do only speculate that this card is GT200b so perhaps the above source is correct and they are skipping it altogether and going to a next gen GT300.
Click to expand...



Any 'GT300' is likely to be a refresh of GT200 for early to mid 2009 and support DX10.1,
not a true next-gen GPU (re: DirectX 11, Shader Model 5.0), that which is not due until late 2009 / early 2010.
 
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