Nvidia chips to make tardy debut
- Thread starter Sabastian
- Start date
Hrm maybe I wasn't clear enough....
"Basically, they missed the cycle," Hans Mosesmann, a Prudential Securities analyst, said of Nvidia. "Really (the NV30) is a fall product that's now been pushed out for all intents and purposes to the spring."
"Nvidia originally said( http://news.com.com/2100-1040-896850.html ) the NV30 would be widely available by now. Analysts now expect that at best a few thousand high-end video cards using the chip will be available before Christmas."
"retail shipments of PCs running the NV30 are unlikely to materialize until several months into 2003--a traditionally weak time of the year for PC sales"
http://news.com.com/2117-1040-963195.html?tag= ltnc
"Basically, they missed the cycle," Hans Mosesmann, a Prudential Securities analyst, said of Nvidia. "Really (the NV30) is a fall product that's now been pushed out for all intents and purposes to the spring."
"Nvidia originally said( http://news.com.com/2100-1040-896850.html ) the NV30 would be widely available by now. Analysts now expect that at best a few thousand high-end video cards using the chip will be available before Christmas."
"retail shipments of PCs running the NV30 are unlikely to materialize until several months into 2003--a traditionally weak time of the year for PC sales"
http://news.com.com/2117-1040-963195.html?tag= ltnc
I think whats going to hurt the most for nVidia is the low to mid-range.
ATI has the low end covered with the 9000, mid range covered with the 9500(pro) and the ofcourse the high-end. Whats important is that ATI have directx 8 covered in the low-end, and will have dx9 covered in the mid-range, below $200!. These features are going to be a huge checklist item come this christmas, particularly for OEM wins.
This is all assuming that there aren't any NV30's this christmas.
JMHO ofcourse.
Fuz
ATI has the low end covered with the 9000, mid range covered with the 9500(pro) and the ofcourse the high-end. Whats important is that ATI have directx 8 covered in the low-end, and will have dx9 covered in the mid-range, below $200!. These features are going to be a huge checklist item come this christmas, particularly for OEM wins.
This is all assuming that there aren't any NV30's this christmas.
JMHO ofcourse.
Fuz
Once NV30 products do appear, they’re likely to be 25 percent to 50 percent faster than the Radeon 9700
That bit sounds interesting
Though even faster would be better, though it's definately enough to make me give up my GF4.
"Whatever you think about ATI, the management made a very shrewd decision," Mosesmann said. "They
decided 0.13 micron wasn't going to be there...If they would have gone to 0.13 micron, it would have been a
disaster. Nvidia can afford to work out problems like that, but it would have killed ATI."
Don't ATi have the revenue or capital to take a risk like that? And if the .13u process remains unstable for another 4-6 months won't that affect any move ATi attempts at .13u (R400) ?
That bit sounds interesting
Though even faster would be better, though it's definately enough to make me give up my GF4."Whatever you think about ATI, the management made a very shrewd decision," Mosesmann said. "They
decided 0.13 micron wasn't going to be there...If they would have gone to 0.13 micron, it would have been a
disaster. Nvidia can afford to work out problems like that, but it would have killed ATI."
Don't ATi have the revenue or capital to take a risk like that? And if the .13u process remains unstable for another 4-6 months won't that affect any move ATi attempts at .13u (R400) ?
I think it just makes Nvidia look more "human" than the terminator machine churning out products every 6 months. The delay won't really hurt Nvidia in the long run. The intresting part of this will be to see if ATI can capitilize upon this in the first half of next year with a good product refresh.
Yeah this is just what ATi needed. No answer on the high end from nvidia till next year. Further today ATi announced mid ranged offerings that outperform nvidias present high end offerings. Not to mention having it low end parts dominating in the mobile market as well as the desktop.
ATi is more aggressive then ever at this point. As far as the NV30 goes it is looking like an anti-climatic event all around considering ATIs work with DDRII and the extreme overclocking on the Radeon 9700 Pro. It really does look as though Nvidia has been playing second fiddle ever since the Radeon 9700 launch even more so then many had though.
ATi is more aggressive then ever at this point. As far as the NV30 goes it is looking like an anti-climatic event all around considering ATIs work with DDRII and the extreme overclocking on the Radeon 9700 Pro. It really does look as though Nvidia has been playing second fiddle ever since the Radeon 9700 launch even more so then many had though.
You know most of the speed increase could come from the fact that NV30 has register combiners after the pixel shader pipe. That would mean quite a few instructions which normally would have to be executed by the pixel shader unit can be done with the combiners. For relatively short pixel programs this could well reduce instruction count by a fair percentage.
Serge
Serge
We have yet to see how the NV30 performs with DDRII and to what level the .13u process will allow it to OC to. If it has a 25-50% lead to start with I don't just see DDRII allowing the 9700 to catch up like that.
Maybe the R350?
Maybe the R350?
BoardBonobo said:
Yeah no one reall knows much about the NV30s performance. I am sure that ATi is working with the R300 core in some way to give it some sort of boost. Who knows there may even be a driver update comming down the pipe that will give the Radeon 9700 pro a boost enough to make the disparity in performance considerably less. The analysts speculation on performance is quite broad suggesting he is guessing at best when it comes to just how fast nvidias next offering will be. But who knows maybe he is right.. but which is it 25% or 50%?
You can't really say it hasn't hurt nVidia--it certainly has, in the short and long run. If the NV30 had come out before or close to the 9700, and outperformed it, ATI would have been finished as a meaningful competitor. Now that hasn't happened. ISV's and OEM's have to consider ATI again; games will be more compatible with ATI, more machines will be shipped with ATI chips which means that future games will have to continue to be ATI friendly. nVidia had the opportunity to kill off ATI this generation and missed it; now they have a healthy long term competitor. That's got to hurt.
(Note: by kill off, I don't mean finish ATI as a company, I mean end consideration of ATI by games-oriented buyers. ATI would hang on as a low-end and mobile OEM supplier)
(Note: by kill off, I don't mean finish ATI as a company, I mean end consideration of ATI by games-oriented buyers. ATI would hang on as a low-end and mobile OEM supplier)
BoardBonobo said:Once NV30 products do appear, they’re likely to be 25 percent to 50 percent faster than the Radeon 9700
That bit sounds interesting
Of course, it's only about working frequencies, not performance.
It does say something that ATI will have 5 DX9 cards out before Nvidia can even get their first out. In addition ATI's cheapest card is more advance wise (N-patches, PS 1.4) then Nvidia's best. ATI does have a winning line-up of cards and now many more different manufacturers using their chips. Meaning much more push in advertising and getting the public aware of the offereings will happen. Talking about an avalanche on Nvidia, Nvidia hasn't been in this position before. It will be interesint in how Nvidia handles this situation. If they let the wave calm down a little and not over react I think they will do O.K.. But if they over react, deliver unfinished goods and or give exorbitant promisses which are not true to tame the wave then they will lose in the long run.
Hellbinder
Banned
Two things...
First this is just speculation there is no evidence anywhere that the Nv30 performas that high in general gaming. you all forget that the Nv30 and R300 were concieved and started at the same time. why does everyone assume that its going to be so much faster? especially with a 128bit controler.
Second.
Given a 25-50% speed increase would almost have to be in AA or AA+AF situations, we have all seen how CPU limited the 9700 is in most games. so a DDR-II version of the R300 would indeed make a big impact. as AA is bandwidth limmited. Just OCing the ram on the current 9700 20mhz reveals about a 3-5 FPS increase. If the results stay paralell then a 100+MHZ memory upgrade will result in a considerable AA score increase.
OpenGL guy
Veteran
Not to repeat myself, but TANSTAAFL.Ailuros said:
OpenGL guy
Veteran
Ahh, people need to read more Robert HeinleinAiluros said:
(I recommend "The Number of the Beast" or "Job: A Comedy of Justice"). Anyway, TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.Similar threads
