NPD October 2002 TRSTS

[Vince]

FORMAT - DESCRIPTION - CORPORATE - PUBLISHER - UNITS OCT 2002- UNITS LTD 95-02

PS2 GRAND THEFT AUTO:VICE TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE 1,412,429 1,412,429
PS2 NBA LIVE 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 261,514 261,514
PS2 KINGDOM HEARTS SQUARE EA 219,962 562,371
PS2 MADDEN NFL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 192,380 1,493,787
PS2 HITMAN 2: ASSASSIN EIDOS INTERACTIVE 183,100 221,525
PS2 TONY HAWKS PRO SKATR4 ACTIVISION 165,281 165,281
PS2 LORD OF RINGS: TOWERS ELECTRONIC ARTS 148,863 148,863
PS2 NEED SPEED: PURSUIT 2 ELECTRONIC ARTS 135,179 178,415
PS2 TEKKEN 4 NAMCO 126,909 328,752
XBX HITMAN 2: ASSASSIN EIDOS INTERACTIVE 100,511 133,457
PS2 NBA 2K3 SEGA OF AMERICA 98,185 98,185
GCN MARIO PARTY 4 NINTENDO OF AMERICA 97,714 97,714
PSX YU-GI-OH! FORBIDDEN KONAMI OF AMERICA 80,206 553,386
PS2 NHL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 75,813 104,600
GCN STAR FOX ADVENTURES NINTENDO OF AMERICA 73,900 242,176
PS2 RED FACTION II THQ 72,670 72,670
PS2 TIMESPLITTERS 2 EIDOS INTERACTIVE 67,452 67,452
GCN SUPER MARIO SUNSHINE NINTENDO OF AMERICA 66,436 683,796
PS2 GRAND THEFT AUTO 3 TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE 64,981 4,228,169
PS2 GRAN TURISMO 3:A-SPEC SONY 61,506 2,262,400
XBX TIMESPLITTERS 2 EIDOS INTERACTIVE 61,409 61,409
PS2 SOCOM:U.S. NAVY SEALS SONY 60,292 457,098
PS2 NCAA FOOTBALL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 59,554 603,081
PS2 NASCAR THUNDER 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 58,715 120,426
PS2 CONFLICT: DESERT STORM TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE 57,540 69,221
PS2 SPIDER-MAN: THE MOVIE ACTIVISION 57,190 860,667
PS2 JAK AND DAXTER:LEGACY SONY 56,641 661,855
XBX HALO MICROSOFT 54,144 1,522,574
PS2 SUIKODEN III KONAMI OF AMERICA 53,907 53,907
XBX NBA 2K3 SEGA OF AMERICA 53,867 53,867
XBX NBA LIVE 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 53,689 53,689
PS2 LORD OF THE RINGS VIVENDI UNIVERSAL 52,737 52,737
PS2 TONY HAWKS PRO SKATR3 ACTIVISION 51,957 1,473,211
GCN ANIMAL CROSSING NINTENDO OF AMERICA 51,277 156,414
PS2 MEDAL HONOR FRONTLINE ELECTRONIC ARTS 47,553 1,230,071
PS2 NBA STREET ELECTRONIC ARTS 47,553 942,073
PS2 CONTRA:SHATTERED SLDR KONAMI OF AMERICA 43,075 43,075
XBX CONFLICT: DESERT STORM TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE 43,022 60,483
GCN GODZILLA: DESTRY MELEE INFOGRAMES 40,725 40,725
GCN TIMESPLITTERS 2 EIDOS INTERACTIVE 39,744 39,744
PS2 DEVIL MAY CRY CAPCOM USA 38,396 685,279
PS2 MIDNIGHT CLUB:STREET TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE 37,661 831,155
PS2 TEKKEN TAG TOURNAMENT NAMCO 36,547 917,427
XBX NEED SPEED: PURSUIT 2 ELECTRONIC ARTS 35,903 48,819
XBX TONY HAWKS PRO SKATR4 ACTIVISION 35,571 35,571
PS2 ATV OFF ROAD FURY SONY 34,102 914,490
XBX LORD OF THE RINGS VIVENDI UNIVERSAL 33,455 69,356
PS2 STUNTMAN INFOGRAMES 33,110 334,524
XBX MADDEN NFL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 32,867 246,405
PS2 SIMPSONS: ROAD RAGE ELECTRONIC ARTS 32,481 351,334
PS2 SLY COOPER & THIEVIUS SONY 31,828 50,070
PS2 CRASH BANDICOOT:CORTX VIVENDI UNIVERSAL 30,649 555,093
PS2 BURNOUT 2: IMPACT ACCLAIM ENTERTAINMENT 30,059 33,995
PS2 WILD ARMS 3 SONY 29,688 29,688
PSX SPONGEBOB SUPERSPONGE THQ 29,244 769,504
XBX BLINX: TIME SWEEPER MICROSOFT 28,778 28,778
PSX GH 3RD PTY FAM VALUE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTUR 27,066 36,093
PS2 RESIDENT EVIL CODE: X CAPCOM USA 26,739 556,583
PS2 SPY HUNTER MIDWAY 26,707 487,578
XBX SHENMUE 2 MICROSOFT 26,683 26,683
PS2 STREET HOOPS ACTIVISION 25,562 167,513
PS2 X-MEN: NEXT DIMENSION ACTIVISION 25,462 25,462
PS2 TIGER WOODS PGA 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 25,080 25,080
GCN SUPER SMASH BRO MELEE NINTENDO OF AMERICA 24,684 1,157,712
PSX SPIDER-MAN ACTIVISION 24,342 1,298,886
PS2 NFL 2K3 SEGA OF AMERICA 24,300 151,047
PS2 ROCKET POWER: BEACH THQ 24,095 29,994
PSX BUDGET ASSORTMENT MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTUR 24,094 74,171
XBX NFL FEVER 2003 MICROSOFT 24,077 94,825
PSX GUNDAM:BTTLE ASSAULT2 BANDAI AMERICA 23,892 137,311
PS2 BLOODRAYNE MAJESCO 23,531 23,531
PSX MK TRILOGY MIDWAY 23,490 1,233,139
PS2 ACE COMBAT 4 NAMCO 22,816 543,939
PS2 LEGAIA 2: DUEL SAGA EIDOS INTERACTIVE 22,651 35,252
PS2 ROBOTECH: BATTLECRY TDK MEDIACTIVE 22,560 64,420
PS2 ONIMUSHA 2: SAMURAI CAPCOM USA 22,288 203,527
PS2 NFL BLITZ 2003 MIDWAY 22,119 66,764
PSX FAMILY VALUE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTUR 21,958 28,347
XBX DEAD TO RIGHTS NAMCO 21,886 211,712
GCN TONY HAWKS PRO SKATR4 ACTIVISION 21,795 21,795
GCN PHANTASY STAR I & II SEGA OF AMERICA 21,717 21,717
XBX NHL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 21,484 21,484
PS2 MLB SLUGFEST 20-03 MIDWAY 21,374 262,177
PSX GRAN TURISMO 2 SONY 20,970 2,926,459
PS2 TY TASMANIAN TIGER ELECTRONIC ARTS 20,656 20,656
PS2 WIPEOUT FUSION BAM! ENTERTAINMENT 20,561 49,899
GCN NEED SPEED: PURSUIT 2 ELECTRONIC ARTS 20,090 25,074
PSX SCOOBY DOO & CYBER THQ 19,690 366,630
GCN SUPER MONKEY BALL 2 SEGA OF AMERICA 19,679 92,396
PS2 SCOOBY-DOO:100 FRIGHT THQ 19,354 143,149
PSX MADDEN NFL 2003 ELECTRONIC ARTS 19,312 77,836
PSX SPIDERMAN 2: ELECTRO ACTIVISION 19,224 322,631
PS2 TUROK: EVOLUTION ACCLAIM ENTERTAINMENT 19,159 100,969
XBX BLOODRAYNE MAJESCO 19,096 19,096
PS2 JAMPACK WINTER 2002 SONY 19,029 19,029
PSX SPORTS VALUE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTUR 18,740 24,095
PS2 RACING VALUE MULTIPLE VIDEO GAME MANUFACTUR 18,429 24,068
PSX HARRY POTTER:SORCERER ELECTRONIC ARTS 17,706 964,820
PSX ROCKET POWER: TEAM THQ 17,238 562,856

Thanks to (ie. Shamelessly ripped from) wojf on GA Forums.

 

[zurich]

Wow, I'm honestly surprised to see as many Xbox titles up there as there are, despite the relatively bland software offerings over the last few months.

11 GC games, 14 Xbox games, 15 PSX and the rest is PS2.

*Looks at Shenmue 2 numbers...* *Shudders*

I can understand why MS is so hellbent on moving hardware, as the huge install base of the PS2 is overwhelmingly influencing software sales.

 

[archie4oz]

PSX YU-GI-OH! FORBIDDEN KONAMI OF AMERICA 80,206 553,386

Impressive to see the PSX pull these kind of numbers these days (especially in North America)...

PS2 SLY COOPER & THIEVIUS SONY 31,828 50,070

PSX GUNDAM:BTTLE ASSAULT2 BANDAI AMERICA 23,892 137,311

I love the game, but I'm surprised a PSX *GUNDAM* game doing that well!

XBX SHENMUE 2 MICROSOFT 26,683 26,683

Sad...

 

[V3]

XBX SHENMUE 2 MICROSOFT 26,683 26,683

Ohh well, Shenmue 3 looks like a pretty slim chance. Lets hope it picks up, but some how I doubt it. It probably will do better if this game was released one year ago as a Dreamcast farewell. If there is no Shenmue 3, I am throwing my Xbox out of the window, and I'll run it over with my 4WD and send it to MS office, asking for replacement

 

[Dural]

*Looks at Shenmue 2 numbers...* *Shudders*

You do know that it was released on October 30, I believe, so that only represents two days of sales?

 

[PC-Engine]

The only reason why I haven't gotten Shenmue II yet is because I'm waiting for the devkit styled Xbox.

 

[Magnum PI]

*Looks at Shenmue 2 numbers...* *Shudders*

You do know that it was released on October 30, I believe, so that only represents two days of sales?

to be more specific is represents the two *first* days of sales !

and a games generally sells the best in these days. so don't expect shenmue 2 to do a decent amount of sales for november..

 

[Magnum PI]

The only reason why I haven't gotten Shenmue II yet is because I'm waiting for the devkit styled Xbox.

seriously ??
i think it was a hoax !

 

[Rodéric]

Cool maybe ShenMue 3 will be released on another console...

/me looks at his GameCube ^^

(Since I've both the 1 and 2, I'd like to get the 3, but I don't plan to buy yet another console.)

 

[PC-Engine]

The only reason why I haven't gotten Shenmue II yet is because I'm waiting for the devkit styled Xbox.

seriously ??
i think it was a hoax !

Where did you hear that?

 

[Qroach]

If that's the only two days it was on sale, then thats not too bad. We'll have to wait for the next months sales to see how it does. As an example, Grand theft auto 3 didn't sell as well as it did in the first month as it did later on. it actually picked up in sales quite a bit. I'm pretty sure going into Christmas Shunmue sales will increase quite a bit not comparable with GTA3, but more than the 26,000 sold in the first two days.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

The second numbers are total sales for North America? If yes, then some games are doing pretty badly, only a handful have made it over 300K (which is about the amount needed to get some profit AFAIK).
Are there such lists for PC games as well?

 

[Qroach]

Actually the average number to start making money (or break even) is around 70,000-100,000 typically (sometimes lower, sometimes higher). It depends on the game mostly, and how much deveopment time was spent. 300,000 copies of a game sold is VERY good! Unless it was a game that was "expected" to sell a million units and only sold 300,000. That's the only way you can be dissapointed with a number like that.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Actually the average number to start making money (or break even) is around 70,000-100,000 typically (sometimes lower, sometimes higher). It depends on the game mostly, and how much deveopment time was spent. 300,000 copies of a game sold is VERY good! Unless it was a game that was "expected" to sell a million units and only sold 300,000. That's the only way you can be dissapointed with a number like that.

Hm, are you sure about that?

70,000 * 50 USD is roughly 3.5 million dollars.

Even if 66% of that can go to the publisher and the developer, that's only 2.3 million to cover development, marketing and advertising, manufacturing and shipping...

I'm not sure about exact profit margins though (how much for the retailer and how much for the publisher, etc.) , but I'm pretty sure you can't really develop a normal category title from under 1 million dollar. Budget games might easily go lower than that but then you won't sell for 50 USD each. I still think that 6-number sales are needed for most of today's games to break even.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

The latest example I could find on Gamasutra was Rouge Leader and it's development budget was 3.5 million. Black and White was 5.7 million but it's obviously an extreme. Most of the other games I've checked out in their features archive had multi-million dollar budgets. Then agian, most of those games are quite high-profile and must've sold well over 100.000

 

[Qroach]

Hm, are you sure about that?

70,000 * 50 USD is roughly 3.5 million dollars.

Even if 66% of that can go to the publisher and the developer, that's only 2.3 million to cover development, marketing and advertising, manufacturing and shipping...

Oh yeah, I sure am. I'm much mroe invovled with this side of development these days. The publisher doesn't receive that much money ($50) from the game. You need to tack on:

1. The fee for making the game on that platform (ranges from 7-10 dollars if I remember correctly)
2. The fee for packaging (that can go up to 3 dollars)
3. The money distrubutors tack on (sometimes the retailer and distrubuter are the same. like Walmart (I don't recall how much distrubuters tack on)
4. The money retailers tack on, and then you have your street price of $50 US or whatever price you see (Usually 10 percent markup).

Publishers actually make in the teens with the sale of each game. Usually between 10-20 dollars with each copy sold. So 70,000 * $15.00 =$10,50000

As you can see, this would bring back a million dollars, and if it sold say 85,000 units, that's pretty close to the break even point for most titles developed. You of course want to sell more, but for a title (that's not a big name franchise) to sell 300,000 copies it's pretty darn good. Add to that the sales you'd achieve in each region and you could end up making some decent money.

Now I'm talking about "average" video game. Not the big budget projects that cost upwards of 2.5 million to create. The majority of smaller budget console games are still made for anywhere from 700,000 - 1.2 million dollars.

 

[BoddoZerg]

The one thing I'm surprised by is that individual console games don't actually have higher sales numbers than PC games.

For years we have been hearing that "PC games are dying" and that console games sell bazillions more copies. But if you look at, even big hits like Halo and Grand Theft Auto, the sales are not any better than top selling PC games. Warcraft III shipped 4.5 million and sold 1 million copies in the first two weeks. Halo's been out for a year and its sales are only slightly greater than 1.5 million.

Of course, consoles still have ~2.5-3x the game sales of PC games total. But consider that the number of big-budget console games is rather large (there's TONS of big budget developers on console), while the number of big-budget PC games is much smaller... and PC games are probably more profitable (on average) than console games.

 

[Qroach]

For years we have been hearing that "PC games are dying" and that console games sell bazillions more copies. But if you look at, even big hits like Halo and Grand Theft Auto, the sales are not any better than top selling PC games. Warcraft III shipped 4.5 million and sold 1 million copies in the first two weeks. Halo's been out for a year and its sales are only slightly greater than 1.5 million.

Well, actually GTA 3 sold upwards of 8 million copies. halo is approaching 2 million units, but there wa salso the problem of not having a large enough installed base for it's first year to compete with the sales of warcraft 3. it's actually VERY rare for a PC title to even break a million copies sold. Warcraft is one of the few exceptions. Same goes for Diablo, Black and White, any Id product, the Sims, etc...

Publishers also make more money off PC titles, since there's no fees to develop for the PC platform. still the prices of most PC products tend to be lower than the consoles for the same reason. it depends on the title. You can actually get buy with less sales (for the most part). However pirating does most PC games in long before they have a chance to sell really well.

 

[marconelly!]

You do know that it was released on October 30, I believe, so that only represents two days of sales?

Actually, it's probably a bit more. These charts usually track first few days of the next month.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Publishers actually make in the teens with the sale of each game. Usually between 10-20 dollars with each copy sold. So 70,000 * $15.00 =$10,50000

As you can see, this would bring back a million dollars, and if it sold say 85,000 units, that's pretty close to the break even point for most titles developed.

Er, that is to cover both the publisher's costs and the developer's costs, am I right? Now marketing and advertising and such can make up for quite a lot of money, so earning 1 million would probably support a budget of $600-750,000. That's not much...

BTW, Halo has sold many copies in Europe as well and should be way beyond 2 million copies by now.