NPD February 2009

[Tap In]

$199 is not some magically price point that you can spend your sweet time trying to get to and see mainstream like sales regardless of when you get there.

agreed. that's WHY X360 is benefiting from the $199... they positioned themselves PERFECTLY to take advantage of it. and got lucky

The only hitch in the entire product this gen was the RROD problems and costs. Considering they endured that fiasco and are still in the postion they are shows to me tremendous foresight, I think (with a little luck) everything MS has done in the past 4 years was planned to be exactly like this.

Design of hardware (quality of graphics and scaling of price) RROD notwithstanding; marketinig to a wider audience; Live integration to create a community; developer friendly from day 1; multiplatform of former exclusives; expedient and timely big hit exclusives that were actually very well done and hit the market at just the right times (with a few whiffs of course ); reduction of excessive 1st party costs and leverage of 3rd party.

so yea, while $199 is not a golden egg, if everything else is in place... it sure helps.

the LUCK of course was PS3s price (actually costs), delay and lack of early must-have exclusives.

 

[Scott_Arm]

People keep saying Sony would be dominating if they'd launched at a lower price point. The only way Sony could have launched lower priced or earlier was with lesser hardware, but that takes away their supposed advantage. By that reasoning, we could be asking "What if MS had launched with more powerful/expensive hardware?" They're really useless questions.

 

[xexuxjy]

True, but I think a lot of people (including Sony) expected their name and reputation to carry them through, so if they'd launched at a lower price /spec the fact they were Sony would have caused a lot of problems for MS. Anyway all useless conjecture as you say

 

[dobwal]

People keep saying Sony would be dominating if they'd launched at a lower price point. The only way Sony could have launched lower priced or earlier was with lesser hardware, but that takes away their supposed advantage. By that reasoning, we could be asking "What if MS had launched with more powerful/expensive hardware?" They're really useless questions.

Who cares about supposed advantages that don't really drive demand?

BluRay's inclusion was an advantage in terms of winning a format war, in terms of winning a console war, its inclusion has been a major detriment. Furthermore, Cell has provided no real tangible benefit for the PS3 other than running F@H. When it comes to games like KZ2, Uncharted, Resistance, MG4 and GT, its seems like to me that they are products of hefty budgets and/or talented devs (whose games would look and play great regardless of platform) rather than the technical prowess of the PS3.

 

[AlNom]

It really does come down to blu-ray does it not...

mmm....

 

[neliz]

indeed. KZ2 alone has a bigger budget than any other media item ever before created in holland. It is really something that sony wanted to do right and they spend a massive, massive budget on it (50 to 60 million euros) that would be hard to justify by sales numbers alone.

 

[ShadowRunner]

It really does come down to blu-ray does it not...

mmm....

Told ya!

 

[joker454]

People keep saying Sony would be dominating if they'd launched at a lower price point. The only way Sony could have launched lower priced or earlier was with lesser hardware, but that takes away their supposed advantage.

They would have certainly done better. If they shipped with dvd and did not make the hdd standard, the landscape would be different today. If they added good tools and developer support to that then the landscape would be *very* different today.

I can say with full confidence that I know absolutely no one that expected this gen to turn out the way it did. Skip back a few years. We got 360's first, but it takes Microsoft 5+ tries to get anything right. Given that this was their second Xbox, we figured sure we'll support it and it might do ok, but eventually we'll all have our 360 kits replaced by PS3 kits, or at least the 360 kit would be pushed aside to port status on a game by game basis if the bean counters deem it worthy. I mean this is Playstation we're talking about, the brand synonymous with video gaming and coming off the hugely successful PS1 and PS2. Microsoft is gonna compete with them? Yeah right. I remember the jokes we would make about the 'next xbox' at lunch time as we waited for the kits to arrive, joking how long it would take before the PS3 slaughtered it, or wondering how many times Microsoft would keep trying to crack the video game market before they gave up. Man were we wrong.

Skip forward a little to the now infamous "five hundred and ninety nine dollars". Now sit back a bit and do some projections a few years ahead. Estimate how long it would take the PS3 to hit the main price points based on the cost of the hardware. Umm, this doesn't look good. If they can't sell consoles, we can't sell games on it. Suddenly that temporary 360 kit on my desk is still there. Hmm, I still don't even have a PS3 kit. Shouldn't I be getting one? Ah some PS3 kits are here. Hmm, only a few 'exploratory' kits. Interesting. Talk with the big wigs, interesting, the 360 is staying front and center in business plans. Ping friends on the video game grapevine to see whats going on. Hmm, you guys aren't doing PS3 stuff yet either? Interesting.

I'm obviously simplifying here for the sake of forum brevity, but the point is that price was everything, and it created a huge domino effect. It shifted everyone's focus, far more and far faster than anyone expected. Stuff like ease of development and fantastic developer support from Microsoft was icing on the cake, but the shift in focus first started based on price. You can't sell razor blades if people can't afford the razor.

 

[vanquish]

MS could eventually lose to the PS3 (depending on how long this generation lasts for).

Sony have a long term oriented strategy, with their cadre of 1st party devs, technology platform/tools (eg. Edge) etc.

KZ2 might not make much of a profit, but it serves as a flagship title for the PS brand and 'proves' if you will, Sony's marketing claim, that the PS3 is the most powerful console.

Brand image and consumer perception, I think is crucially important.

MS seems to have a short term strategy, relying on pricing and marketing towards it's core gamers, rather than tackling brand image/consumer perception head on.

It's quite possible that many 360 buyers, wanted a PS3 but could only afford a 360.

 

[flashboom]

If it wasnt for the Yen shock we'd of had a $299 PS3 last fall. And maybe a $199 PS3 this coming fall. Sonys had there hands tied by world events. So i think the original PS3 price is pretty irrelevent to the here and now.

 

[neliz]

MS could eventually lose to the PS3 (depending on how long this generation lasts for).

Sony have a long term oriented strategy, with their cadre of 1st party devs, technology platform/tools (eg. Edge) etc.

KZ2 might not make much of a profit, but it serves as a flagship title for the PS brand and 'proves' if you will, Sony's marketing claim, that the PS3 is the most powerful console.

Brand image and consumer perception, I think is crucially important.

MS seems to have a short term strategy, relying on pricing and marketing towards it's core gamers, rather than tackling brand image/consumer perception head on.

It's quite possible that many 360 buyers, wanted a PS3 but could only afford a 360.

Why why why why why why why do I always hear the same Sony PR-Spook talking here "PS3 has a long term vision, it will last for 11!!!!11ty years!" We have better Titles, our console is technologically superior.

I don't know why everyone keeps repeating this. does Sony REALLY want to get it's ass kicked by an Xbox3 while they are going on for another 5 years trying to get anything decent out on the PS3?
Pointing at the PS2's success as a base for the PS3's future performance is nonsense. the PS2 had great games but it was mediocre overall, poor networking and graphics. It's saving grace was it's install base, something that the PS3 can't say. T

he PS3 still suffers from some bad networking service, I want a group of friends that I can play Motorstorm 2 with dammit, not wait around till somone accidentally drops in to my game. There are a lot of things that need to be addressed by Sony and right now it's simply not worth it to pay a premium on the PS3 where you get worse in-game graphics, a mediocre network service and a little bit of Sony love "because they are in such a hard place"
I don't care one ounce about the stinking Yen, it's consoles made in china and sold everywhere else. I'm sure the Chinese don't get payed in Yen either.

 

[-tkf-]

Why why why why why why why do I always hear the same Sony PR-Spook talking here "PS3 has a long term vision, it will last for 11!!!!11ty years!" We have better Titles, our console is technologically superior.

I don't know why everyone keeps repeating this. does Sony REALLY want to get it's ass kicked by an Xbox3 while they are going on for another 5 years trying to get anything decent out on the PS3?
Pointing at the PS2's success as a base for the PS3's future performance is nonsense. the PS2 had great games but it was mediocre overall, poor networking and graphics. It's saving grace was it's install base, something that the PS3 can't say. T

he PS3 still suffers from some bad networking service, I want a group of friends that I can play Motorstorm 2 with dammit, not wait around till somone accidentally drops in to my game. There are a lot of things that need to be addressed by Sony and right now it's simply not worth it to pay a premium on the PS3 where you get worse in-game graphics, a mediocre network service and a little bit of Sony love "because they are in such a hard place"
I don't care one ounce about the stinking Yen, it's consoles made in china and sold everywhere else. I'm sure the Chinese don't get payed in Yen either.

The PS3 suffers from a strong Yen, it´s just more expensive pr default.

Alot of negative press (you cant fight the interweb, you have to please it anyway you can), bad launch, bad tools, a Microsoft sponsored HiDef format war that only had one purpose, kill Blu-Ray.
Production problems with the Blu-Ray drive. Not to mention a giant fumble on the Marketing, they made cool artsy arts, which went over the head of every internet "dude", it didn´t look cool, to few explosions and to many words.
They didn´t succeed in the DVD/Blu-Ray war either. Less is better in this generation, as long as it plays to the 360 strengths.
They screwed up the OS, at least on paper?, today 32MB difference in a 512MB machine is more important that 32MB vs 64MB in the old war(?).
Removed BC way to early, i am sure they knew that very few used it, but that is useless knowledge when every internet user with a login can point fingers and bitch.

And Microsoft did whatever they had to do to come first to market, including selling Hardware that was more or less certain to break for 2(3?) years.

It´s my opinion that Sony "lost" the war in the minds of people and they never got a break with the price either.

Despite all these things working against it, including Sony , worldwide it´s only 8 million behind the extremely cheap 360.

 

[vanquish]

Why why why why why why why do I always hear the same Sony PR-Spook talking here "PS3 has a long term vision, it will last for 11!!!!11ty years!" We have better Titles, our console is technologically superior.

I don't know why everyone keeps repeating this. does Sony REALLY want to get it's ass kicked by an Xbox3 while they are going on for another 5 years trying to get anything decent out on the PS3?
Pointing at the PS2's success as a base for the PS3's future performance is nonsense. the PS2 had great games but it was mediocre overall, poor networking and graphics. It's saving grace was it's install base, something that the PS3 can't say. T

he PS3 still suffers from some bad networking service, I want a group of friends that I can play Motorstorm 2 with dammit, not wait around till somone accidentally drops in to my game. There are a lot of things that need to be addressed by Sony and right now it's simply not worth it to pay a premium on the PS3 where you get worse in-game graphics, a mediocre network service and a little bit of Sony love "because they are in such a hard place"
I don't care one ounce about the stinking Yen, it's consoles made in china and sold everywhere else. I'm sure the Chinese don't get payed in Yen either.

Hey, it's not what I say (or believe), it's what Sony spruiks and what the market believes.
You go into an electronics store looking for a 360, and the salesman will try and sell you a PS3 ('it's the only Full HD console... Bluray = better graphics and so on).

They've been doing this since the PS2 days, with all those 'realtime' tech demos and hype about the "Emotion Engine". They are very good at marketing.

People may buy more 360's, but i'm sure most of the market believe PS3 to be the 'better' console.
It's like computers. Lots of people have PCs, but most PC owners aspire to own a Mac.

 

[neliz]

They've been doing this since the PS2 days, with all those 'realtime' tech demos and hype about the "Emotion Engine".

I liked the rubber ducks, and the old man.. and I too was fooled into buying one.

 

[manux]

Might be time to dig up old poll's about what marketshare of different consoles look like in 2010. 2007 Guesses didn't look too happy for ps3. Most guessed

Sony 20% Microsoft 40% Nintendo 40%

Though year earlier ps3 still dominated with

Sony 50% Microsoft 25% Nintendo 25% 50 35.71%

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=41884&highlight=poll+marketshare

Too bad the polls aren't open so we could see who guessed what.

Edit. Oh, actually... the polls are open, I was just stupid and didn't know how to see votes This makes things more interesting. I seem to have guessed sony 30, microsoft 30, nintendo 40.

 

[vanquish]

Hasn't the gap between the 360 and PS3 been steadily closing?
ie. until the recent MS price drop

 

[neliz]

Hasn't the gap between the 360 and PS3 been steadily closing?
ie. until the recent MS price drop

for a few months sales were more or less equal, after the pricedrop the PS3's sales rate is 60-70% of that off the 360.

 

[-tkf-]

You go into an electronics store looking for a 360, and the salesman will try and sell you a PS3 ('it's the only Full HD console... Bluray = better graphics and so on).

They've been doing this since the PS2 days, with all those 'realtime' tech demos and hype about the "Emotion Engine". They are very good at marketing.

The Blu-Ray drive does make a difference unlike the cool name for the PS2 Chip.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I only know one person that wants a Mac and he already has one. I used to know 2 others that used Macs, but they've since switched to PCs. So that analogy is a bit flawed.

I also don't know many people in RL that go to great lengths to defend one console or the other. I see it far more often on forums. What I DO hear quite a bit from those that actually do buy a PS3 though...

"It's a Playstation" And... "I know the X360 has more games, but it's a Playstation." And other variations of that.

Despite that, I know more people with X360's than PS3's. Most of us, if we want to play something on PS3. Well, we're just fine with borrowing a mates PS3 or just going to their place to play it.

The Playstation brand still has huge mindshare, but even with that, people just aren't willing to plonk down huge gobs of money for it just yet. At least no around where I live...

Had the PS3 launched at the same price as X360 and stayed roughly the same price. It would have wiped the floor with the X360. Assuming there were actually more games for it...

It really is too bad that they included a bluray drive. I'm pretty sure a cost competitive PS3 with a DVD would have smacked the X360 all over the place, even with it being harder to develope games for.

Regards,
SB

 

[Fafalada]

They've been doing this since the PS2 days, with all those 'realtime' tech demos and hype about the "Emotion Engine".

Not to derail, but every single one of those demos was realtime (and on 60% speed hardware to boot). It's more a testament to quality of old Sony's marketting that silly things like that are still being contested up to this day.