Nintendo's Financial Report
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Vince
This was the comment I was refering to:
I don't think there's really much question about what he meant there. I can see how you'd think he didn't say what I was suggesting if you hadn't seen the comment above. Since the comment you quoted from him completely contradicts it. On one hand he's saying Nintendo will never clear there inventory between now and when they restart production in September. But on the other he's saying that the lack of production between now and September will deplete stocks for the Christmas season... doesn't add up.
But the point is Vince I didn't say otherwise, you replied to my comment as if I had. That's all I'm saying.
My own opinion on this is halting production is never a good thing obviously. But its not neccesarilly the end of the world either, nor does it have to mean that one company who doesn't halt production is doing better then a one which has (one may have simply been producing units faster). But as I said its certainly not a positive thing.. obviously.
This was the comment I was refering to:
I don't think there's really much question about what he meant there. I can see how you'd think he didn't say what I was suggesting if you hadn't seen the comment above. Since the comment you quoted from him completely contradicts it. On one hand he's saying Nintendo will never clear there inventory between now and when they restart production in September. But on the other he's saying that the lack of production between now and September will deplete stocks for the Christmas season... doesn't add up.
But the point is Vince I didn't say otherwise, you replied to my comment as if I had. That's all I'm saying.
My own opinion on this is halting production is never a good thing obviously. But its not neccesarilly the end of the world either, nor does it have to mean that one company who doesn't halt production is doing better then a one which has (one may have simply been producing units faster). But as I said its certainly not a positive thing.. obviously.
Oh I'm quite aware of where that comment came from, I read it the other day and I was not suprise one bit that it came from the BBC. You think the BBC doesn't have there fair share of crap spouting hacks? Don't tell me you expect me to become all patriotic in support of the great British Broadcasting Corperation? The way I feel about them ATM (not because of this article obviously) I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire
I have no doubt that its not entirely made up. But then if Nintendo mentions that lately games are all very complex and take a lot of effort for gamers to play, then a 'journalist' can turn that into "games are frustrating gamers because there too sophisticated".
But, obviously, they may have said it and there may be a quote out there somewhere, I just haven't seen it.
Teasy, I think you just don't get it.
the key word in what I said is "expect". I made a statement about what you'd expect if things were going well. It seems nintendo doens't expect a big enough demand to keep production going, even if it was slowing production to a trickle...
I'm not saying the halt will deplete stocks for the fall, that would only happen with a large enough demand (whcih there isn't). I'm attempting to point out that Nintendo themselves doesn't "expect" to move a large number of units this fall judging by their actions. That's what isn't a "good thing" about the situation. The other console manufacturers won't be halting production at this time, they will keep a steady flow or increase production since sales are where they expect...
I also don't think they will move this inventory by september (like they claim) because the sales are slow right now, and this annoucement won't help the situation at all. If anything it will make it even more difficult to move that inventory.
It's not about thinking up negatives, It's about looking at what's wrong in the equation.
the key word in what I said is "expect". I made a statement about what you'd expect if things were going well. It seems nintendo doens't expect a big enough demand to keep production going, even if it was slowing production to a trickle...I'm not saying the halt will deplete stocks for the fall, that would only happen with a large enough demand (whcih there isn't). I'm attempting to point out that Nintendo themselves doesn't "expect" to move a large number of units this fall judging by their actions. That's what isn't a "good thing" about the situation. The other console manufacturers won't be halting production at this time, they will keep a steady flow or increase production since sales are where they expect...
I also don't think they will move this inventory by september (like they claim) because the sales are slow right now, and this annoucement won't help the situation at all. If anything it will make it even more difficult to move that inventory.
It's not about thinking up negatives, It's about looking at what's wrong in the equation.
Teasy said:
Oh I'm quite aware of where that comment came from, I read it the other day and I was not suprise one bit that it came from the BBC. You think the BBC doesn't have there fair share of crap spouting hacks? Don't tell me you expect me to become all patriotic in support of the great British Broadcasting Corperation? The way I feel about them ATM (not because of this article obviously) I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire
What makes you feel that you wouldn't piss on the BBC, if they were on fire? Surely if any broadcaster deserved to be pissed on, if they were on fire, it would be the BBC? The correspondant that spoke to Dr Kelly did a poor job of protecting his source, but I don't see that makes the entire corporation worthless (I'm guessing this is what you're referring to?).
Do you think the BBC has some kind of anti-Nintendo agenda, or that they lack the understand to properly represent what was said (it's possible I suppose, but I doubt it)?
The story as reported on MSNBC(http://www.msnbc.com/news/949543.asp?cp1=1), using the Financial Times is its source, gives the same account. This doesn't rule out the possibility of the original interview being misunderstood or mistranslated of course.
Quincy
I thought you said earlier that they had 6 million GC's stocked up that they needed to clear? So why would halting production for a month, when they already have 6 million GC's, mean that they don't expect to sell a large amount of units? If 6 million GC's were sold worldwide between now and January wouldn't that be a large number if units?
Did they actually claim that they'd move there entire inventory by September?
Function
Its a phrase that basically means I couldn't care less about them, but in a more extreme way After all urine is waste, so its something you want to get out of your. If you wouldn't even give your waste to save something.. then you REALLY don't like it very much at all
Nah my feelings towards the BBC have nothing to do with that comment on Nintendo, or any other. You really don't know what you've started by asking me that question mate.. but if you really want ot know:
I have quite a few problems with the BBC. For one they force people to pay a licence of over £100 a year simply to watch TV. Even if you can't pick up BBC channels on your TV you still have to pay them just to watch any TV channel. Also if I don't pay the BBC subscription they can dish out £1000+ fines on the spot. If you don't pay the fines then you'll be thrown into prison alongside murderers and rapists! So none payment of a BBC subscription is like commiting a crime like speeding ect, W..T...F? They're just a normal bloody company, not a government agency FFS! I mean if I didn't pay any other normal company they wouldn't be able to pull this shit.. dishing out fines and getting you arrested ect, they'd have to take me to court.. but not the BBC.. there special for some unknown reason.
Then there's the fact that the channels they provide are utter shit. The BBC seem to be sitting around getting fat and rich. Safe in the knowledge that they don't have to actually spend any of the huge amounts of money they get on good programs. They get about £11 a month from just about everyone in the U.K (an astranomical amount of money around £6 billion a year) for 2 channels that couldn't entertain a mentally retared monkey. As an example, if I look at the BBC channels right now I can see that on BBC one we have "Herbie Goes Bananas"... and on BBC2 there's some sort of canoe competition. The only good things on the BBC today are the Charity Sheild (the showpeice game for the start of the Premier League season) and the last episode in season 2 of 24 (and this is a particularly entertaing day for them!). I mean where are the original British shows that the BBC are supposed to be creating with there billions? Where are the Monty Pyphons and the Red Dwarfs? Or if the're going to completely give up on making there own shows then perhaps they could afford more then just one quality import (24)? I mean the BBC seem to be spending shit all, yet they lost Football highlights coverage last year because they wouldn't even pay a couple of hundred million pounds for the year's coverage. I pay £16 a month for my satellite TV and that has 100 channels or more.. and at least 20 of those are infinitely more entertaining then what the BBC has to offer. So lets see, £10 a month for 2 channels that are both shitter then shit, and £16 a month for 100 channels, with a good amount of those far better then any BBC channel.. anyone see a disparity there?
I feel sort the same about the BBC as I do about the Royal Family. They're both outdated lazy parasites and I hope they both die ASAP
I thought you said earlier that they had 6 million GC's stocked up that they needed to clear? So why would halting production for a month, when they already have 6 million GC's, mean that they don't expect to sell a large amount of units? If 6 million GC's were sold worldwide between now and January wouldn't that be a large number if units?
Did they actually claim that they'd move there entire inventory by September?
Function
Its a phrase that basically means I couldn't care less about them, but in a more extreme way
After all urine is waste, so its something you want to get out of your. If you wouldn't even give your waste to save something.. then you REALLY don't like it very much at all Nah my feelings towards the BBC have nothing to do with that comment on Nintendo, or any other. You really don't know what you've started by asking me that question mate
.. but if you really want ot know:I have quite a few problems with the BBC. For one they force people to pay a licence of over £100 a year simply to watch TV. Even if you can't pick up BBC channels on your TV you still have to pay them just to watch any TV channel. Also if I don't pay the BBC subscription they can dish out £1000+ fines on the spot. If you don't pay the fines then you'll be thrown into prison alongside murderers and rapists! So none payment of a BBC subscription is like commiting a crime like speeding ect, W..T...F? They're just a normal bloody company, not a government agency FFS! I mean if I didn't pay any other normal company they wouldn't be able to pull this shit.. dishing out fines and getting you arrested ect, they'd have to take me to court.. but not the BBC.. there special for some unknown reason.
Then there's the fact that the channels they provide are utter shit. The BBC seem to be sitting around getting fat and rich. Safe in the knowledge that they don't have to actually spend any of the huge amounts of money they get on good programs. They get about £11 a month from just about everyone in the U.K (an astranomical amount of money around £6 billion a year) for 2 channels that couldn't entertain a mentally retared monkey. As an example, if I look at the BBC channels right now I can see that on BBC one we have "Herbie Goes Bananas"... and on BBC2 there's some sort of canoe competition. The only good things on the BBC today are the Charity Sheild (the showpeice game for the start of the Premier League season) and the last episode in season 2 of 24 (and this is a particularly entertaing day for them!). I mean where are the original British shows that the BBC are supposed to be creating with there billions? Where are the Monty Pyphons and the Red Dwarfs? Or if the're going to completely give up on making there own shows then perhaps they could afford more then just one quality import (24)? I mean the BBC seem to be spending shit all, yet they lost Football highlights coverage last year because they wouldn't even pay a couple of hundred million pounds for the year's coverage. I pay £16 a month for my satellite TV and that has 100 channels or more.. and at least 20 of those are infinitely more entertaining then what the BBC has to offer. So lets see, £10 a month for 2 channels that are both shitter then shit, and £16 a month for 100 channels, with a good amount of those far better then any BBC channel.. anyone see a disparity there?
I feel sort the same about the BBC as I do about the Royal Family. They're both outdated lazy parasites and I hope they both die ASAP
Ok, let's get one thing straight. Nintendo actually said "Autum" and not a specific month. They were being very vague and this could mean production starts in October even November for all wel know. if that's the case, then that would change the entire situation IMO. Possibly not for the better.
Anyway, I said 5-6 million units, and that number isn't confirmed. It's what investors have rumored the worldwide back log is. It could be lower than that for all we know. It won't be official until nintendo provides a financial report. Either way, it would have to be high enough for nintendo to stop "worldwide" production.
The thing is, if this IS the inventory number as I've said, they are NOT going to be able to clear that by "Autum/september/october timeframe. "If" they do clear it, that would mean demand is high, and it would be a death wish to let the channel run dry with a high demand. It's better to keep a steady flow of units and not run out before starting productuon again.
In this case, I think Nintendo knows their demand is low (based on the last quater) and they can last for a while without needing any new inventory. Part of the reason they are vaugue on the timeframe to starting production. They are being cautious on the future outlook for the gamecube. That's why IMO, the halt in production shows Nintendo doesn't expect a huge holiday season. IF they did expect a huge holiday season, while expecting to clear inventory in the next few months, they should keep production going to keep the channel filled with product.
Btw, the 80,000 unit number for last quarter appears to have come from the associated press, so I doubt it wasn't correct or a mistake...
Qroach said:
Nintendo clarified that they have sold 800,000 units of GameCube worldwide in the first quarter of 2003, not the 80,000 units reported by other agencies such as Lycos, Reuters and Bloomberg. Nintendo has reported a 11.45 billion yen ($95.18 million) sales for the quarter, thanks to the strong performance of Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire in North America.
This quote from The-MagicBox... I'm sure others are around elsewhere.
(Unless I misread your comment, Quoach, which is quite possible considering the phrasing and all.)
Teasy said:Its a phrase that basically means I couldn't care less about them, but in a more extreme way
I know, I was just having fun with the phrase.
FWIW, I don't like the idea of a compulsory fee either. As more channels become available it seems increasing outdated. However, in terms of what we get for our money, it ain't as bad as you make out. Seven or Eight channels, 5 national radio stations, dozens of local radio stations, a big and well maintained website, the World Service (something that benefits the world IMO) and one of the biggest and possibly most impartital news services in the world (it serves no investors or political interests). And they've just taken over terrestrial TV broadcasting, after ITV digital collapsed through trying to bring people all the premiership football. And there's more stuff too.
I get the feeling they do "overspend" on a lot of stuff (celebrity gossip and 'cool DJs' is hardly public service) and in the opinion of John Snow (from Channel 4 news) they spend more money on running everything than they need to. Reform would be good. But untill the country has a viable alternative for quality programming (you seen "Tonight with Trevvor McDonald"? Tabloid journalism anyone?) I don't think they should be broken up.
But I'll stop there because this is badly off topic.
Back on topic, one of the (inevitable and currently groundless) rumours that I've heard being discussed is that if the GC doesn't sell well enough, production won't be starting again. From a damage controll point of view, you'd think it would be better for Nintendo to continue manufacturing - at however reduced a number - rather than stop altogether, to restart at some undisclosed point in the future. Perhaps, due to the higher costs involved for manufacturing at lower levels, this is uneconomic even for positive spin purposes. But Nintendo must be sure they can regain consumer, retailer, and publisher confidenace and so this isn't worth doing.
Or (and here is the currently groundless everyone loves to gossip bit again) maybe they don't need to worry about this, becuase they're leaving hardware soon. People always assume the truth to be worse than the official announcements tell them. If Nintendo PR staff aren't working overtime, they probably need to be.
Qroach said:
On Nintendo's own site, of course.
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/annual_report.jsp
Page 3, second half. For some, page 3 doesn't open - follow the intructions on Nintendo's page to get it working.
Well Nintendo are still at $149. When they hit $99, and only if their system doesn't sell well there, should they be truly worried. $99 is the 'magic sweet spot' for impulse purchases..
Although I saw a used Cube today for $99 CDN (they are $199 new), which can't be good :?
Although I saw a used Cube today for $99 CDN (they are $199 new), which can't be good :?
It doesn't really prove it wrong--it might just mean Nintendo didn't notice where the actual errors CAME from and haven't corrected them yet.
I favor the 800k number, however, because the GC's total sales in Japan alone were far more than 80k. (Starting in 2003 up to May 25th, it has sold 278k. I'm not sure about exact numbers for the time period they're talking about, but it's easily a lot more than 80k, and they're referring to their total from all markets.)
Basically, it's been types and crossed wires for a while. It'll sort itself out eventually, but it CAN'T be 80k unless completely different sets of data compiled outside of Nintendo by multiple sources are also wrong.
I favor the 800k number, however, because the GC's total sales in Japan alone were far more than 80k. (Starting in 2003 up to May 25th, it has sold 278k. I'm not sure about exact numbers for the time period they're talking about, but it's easily a lot more than 80k, and they're referring to their total from all markets.)
Basically, it's been types and crossed wires for a while. It'll sort itself out eventually, but it CAN'T be 80k unless completely different sets of data compiled outside of Nintendo by multiple sources are also wrong.
Ooh-videogames
Regular
cthellis42 said:It doesn't really prove it wrong--it might just mean Nintendo didn't notice where the actual errors CAME from and haven't corrected them yet.
I favor the 800k number, however, because the GC's total sales in Japan alone were far more than 80k. (Starting in 2003 up to May 25th, it has sold 278k. I'm not sure about exact numbers for the time period they're talking about, but it's easily a lot more than 80k, and they're referring to their total from all markets.)
Basically, it's been types and crossed wires for a while. It'll sort itself out eventually, but it CAN'T be 80k unless completely different sets of data compiled outside of Nintendo by multiple sources are also wrong.
Some people want to ignore the numbers that have been released, by NPD, Media Create and whatever other company that research sales numbers. Everything that I have seen suggest that 80,000 is a typo. I guess it want be accepted until Nintendo put one of their PR people to work and clarify this issue. I believe its possible IGNCube made a decision to make some calls to Nintendo and clarify for themselves what the actual numbers are, and that may explain why their article differs from others.
Qroach i'm curious as to why you seem to have taken my comments personal? Your the only one that has responded to my post. I wasn't attacking you personally, but if the shoe fits.
Meh, I wish websites would stop mudding this. When I fist saw Magic Boxs quote, I was fairly convinced that Nintendo could not have sold 800,000 Cubes - that would just not fit into $95 million sales MagicBox is reporting.
However, going back to the Nintendo PDF, the 11.45 billion yen is actually profit. Come on people, time to learn the God damn difference between the two.
From PDF (all USD numbers are calculated using most recent currency value. The actual numbers should be no more ~5% off due to currency value fluctuations.
Net Sales: 83.3 billion yen ($700 million)
Profits: 11.45 billion yen ($96 million)
Hardware sales: 45.4 billion yen ($383 million)
Software sales: 37.7 billion yen ($318 billion)
Let's assume for a moment that A) The vast bulk of hardware sales are actually system sales, while the peripheral sales are negligible (a fairly reasonable assumption for a rough analysis); B) All the unit shipment numbers in PDF are right and C) The retailer margins are 5-10% (by all accounts, a reasonable assumption).
80,000 Cubes at $140 a unit equals $11.2 million USD
383-11.2 = $371.8 million non-gamecube hardware sales.
2,74 million GBA SP at $90 a unit equals $246.6 million USD
$371.8 - $246.6 = $125.2 million
Now, with GBA classic things get a little tricky due to the mid-quarter price drop. However, since it happened fairly early in the quarter and was pre-announced, I am going to assume that vast majority of them were sold for $70.
500,000 units at $60 a unit = $30 million
$125.2 - $30 = $90.2 million mystery hardware.
At this point, I have made a ridiculous number or assumptions and overlooked a multitude of factors (such as price variations in different territories). However, I do not see how any of those could account for $90 million reminder.
Now, assuming that 800K Cubes were sold:
$383 (total HD sales) - $246 (GBA SP) - $30 (GBA) = $106 million.
800K * 140 = $112 million.
$106 - $112 = - 6 million.
A $6 million deviation is much easier to explain by inaccuracies in the analysis then the $90 million one.
However, going back to the Nintendo PDF, the 11.45 billion yen is actually profit. Come on people, time to learn the God damn difference between the two.
From PDF (all USD numbers are calculated using most recent currency value. The actual numbers should be no more ~5% off due to currency value fluctuations.
Net Sales: 83.3 billion yen ($700 million)
Profits: 11.45 billion yen ($96 million)
Hardware sales: 45.4 billion yen ($383 million)
Software sales: 37.7 billion yen ($318 billion)
Let's assume for a moment that A) The vast bulk of hardware sales are actually system sales, while the peripheral sales are negligible (a fairly reasonable assumption for a rough analysis); B) All the unit shipment numbers in PDF are right and C) The retailer margins are 5-10% (by all accounts, a reasonable assumption).
80,000 Cubes at $140 a unit equals $11.2 million USD
383-11.2 = $371.8 million non-gamecube hardware sales.
2,74 million GBA SP at $90 a unit equals $246.6 million USD
$371.8 - $246.6 = $125.2 million
Now, with GBA classic things get a little tricky due to the mid-quarter price drop. However, since it happened fairly early in the quarter and was pre-announced, I am going to assume that vast majority of them were sold for $70.
500,000 units at $60 a unit = $30 million
$125.2 - $30 = $90.2 million mystery hardware.
At this point, I have made a ridiculous number or assumptions and overlooked a multitude of factors (such as price variations in different territories). However, I do not see how any of those could account for $90 million reminder.
Now, assuming that 800K Cubes were sold:
$383 (total HD sales) - $246 (GBA SP) - $30 (GBA) = $106 million.
800K * 140 = $112 million.
$106 - $112 = - 6 million.
A $6 million deviation is much easier to explain by inaccuracies in the analysis then the $90 million one.
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