How much of the IO that takes up most of the perimeter in those die shots isn't needed by the Switch feature set? Is there a chip with similar pad area whose area can be compared? Some embedded chips just tack things on and disable them if needed per-market, if they're going to be limited by IO or pads anyway.
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Oh!
I see. I thought it was that the A57s had to be powered off before the A53s could be activated (and vice versa). So sleep -> A53, power up -> A57s.
Didn't realise that the chip physically can't switch been core types, and that it was a one time choice when the chip was first powered. Maybe there could be a silent restart of sorts when switching between modes, kind of like how hibernate / resume operate on PC.
monstercameron
Newcomer
It's curious why they would leave their long time partner artx-ati-amd for nvidia, I wonder what lead them to that decision.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Because AMD hasn't shipped any modern mobile SOCs. They sold their mobile GPU business ages ago to Quacomm. Adreno is Radeon... just shuffle the letters to different order
monstercameron
Newcomer
Because AMD hasn't shipped any modern mobile SOCs. They sold their mobile GPU business ages ago to Quacomm. Adreno is Radeon... just shuffle the letters to different order
I've read some of the history of amd and Qualcomm. I know that Adreno is an anagram for Radeon. I don't know how accurate it is to insinuate that AMDs ip couldn't be used in a mobile context. Amd does have some experience with low power x86 and armv8 uarchs. I understand that maybe amd didn't have an off the shelf product for Nintendo to purchase but what really lead to the choice of using NVidia soc? Or maybe it was purely practical and I'm seeing something that's not there...
Because AMD hasn't shipped any modern mobile SOCs. They sold their mobile GPU business ages ago to Quacomm. Adreno is Radeon... just shuffle the letters to different order
Good thing for AMD that mobile never really took off.
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Deleted member 11852
Guest
It does feel like AMD are often in the wrong place at the wrong time - unless you're on a budget.
perhaps they felt they couldn't get the best because sony and ms will out spend them ? They found a partner in NVidia that needed to move product and they were offered a good rate ?
Or perhaps amd didn't want to invest as much money into designing an os and all those features for Nintendo at the price Nintendo wanted to spend ? I mean the wii u only sold 13m consoles compared to what the 160m or so ps3/360s out there and now 80m or so ps4/ones and with those I am sure amd is only doing driver work and no full os work
Nvidia had spent lots of money in developing several Tegra generations and nobody seemed to be interested in licensing them (outside that early Microsoft Surface lisense). They wanted somebody to license their mobile tech to made the investment worthwhile. Nvidia also lost both current gen consoles hardware deals to AMD. And they had a proven product ready that suited Nintendo's needs. As people have pointed out, Nintendo didn't even customize that Nvidia SoC at all. Fully custom AMD SoC would have taken development time and money. And add all software costs (graphics drivers, graphics APIs, etc.). Nvidia implemented their low level graphics API (and likely gave them lots of existing driver code): https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/10/20/nintendo-switch/
monstercameron
Newcomer
I don't mean to come off as combative, I understand that nvidias technology has its merits and might be the most fitting piece of hardware for the switch. I guess my curiosity is in the fact that Nintendo chose to end a 1 and a half decade old partnership. Or am I just too naive when it comes to this subject?
It's also alleged that Nvidia was willing to do a lot of the infrastructure and software R&D for Switch as well.
Perhaps the strain might explain some bloopers with Nvidia's drivers recently.
If AMD didn't offer to write a huge chunk of the system software and APIs for Nintendo--and they aren't the ones who've made their own portable, then that's possibly another reason.
Perhaps the strain might explain some bloopers with Nvidia's drivers recently.
If AMD didn't offer to write a huge chunk of the system software and APIs for Nintendo--and they aren't the ones who've made their own portable, then that's possibly another reason.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Business partnerships are great, only so long as your company can benefit from them. For a device that was meant to have more modern graphics IP (something that AMD could do certainly) that could also operate as a handheld, that wasn't something that would have come cheap or at all from AMD. It would have had to be a fully custom part (AMD making an APU using modern graphics IP and ARM CPU cores).
NVidia already had a part that while perhaps not optimal was "good enough." And NVidia are in a place with Tegra where they are somewhat desperate to have more customers to continue justifying R&D expenditure in Tegra to their shareholders. Yes, they have some high profile automotive wins, but that's still a relative drop in the bucket compared to what the market that Tegra was originally targeting (smartphones). Add to that it isn't a high profile or high margin market like the premium smartphone market (again Tegra's target). NVidia aren't keen to go into a race to the bottom with other ARM SOC vendors with their Tegra parts.
This was a win/win situation for both NVidia and Nintendo. Nintendo likely gets a capable mobile gaming SOC at less than premium smartphone SOC prices. And most certainly at lower than fully custom prices. NVidia gets a high profile win that has high market visibility, both of which are beneficial when going to shareholder's to discuss continued investment in Tegra.
Regards,
SB
I have about 7 hours of game time with my Switch now, most of that was docked, but I played enough portable to have a decent impression. I have to say, this is an Awesome portable. Absolutely a gorgeous piece of tech. The screen is fabulous, the Joy Cons are excellent. The buttons are a bit small, and same goes with the analog sticks, but for myself it became natural very quickly. Zelda BoTW looks very good on the portable screen. Basically the majority of blemishes that show up on the TV aren't apparent on the portable. As a portable, this is a Class A product.
As a console......This is a Wii U 2.0 in terms of a console. Its impressive based on the size and power consumption, but as a console, those things aren't really that important. As a Nintendo fan, of course its a very attractive console, it will have all the first party games, but if those aren't that big of a deal to you, then as a console its not very impressive.
The success of the Switch will depend on how attractive it as a portable. The icing on the cake is the ability to play on the TV, but the meat and potatoes of the appeal comes from the ability to play portably.
As a console......This is a Wii U 2.0 in terms of a console. Its impressive based on the size and power consumption, but as a console, those things aren't really that important. As a Nintendo fan, of course its a very attractive console, it will have all the first party games, but if those aren't that big of a deal to you, then as a console its not very impressive.
The success of the Switch will depend on how attractive it as a portable. The icing on the cake is the ability to play on the TV, but the meat and potatoes of the appeal comes from the ability to play portably.
Rootax
Veteran
It's funny, from what I read, people are divised about the portable quality of the Switch. Some find it awesome (good screen, good controle, huuuge tech leap from 3ds&co), and other find the console too big and too heavy.
I agree with you, the console will have success if people want to do mobile gaming with it. If they don't, they're is no appeal (except nintendo die hard supporters who will buy it just because it's a Nintendo console).
I agree with you, the console will have success if people want to do mobile gaming with it. If they don't, they're is no appeal (except nintendo die hard supporters who will buy it just because it's a Nintendo console).
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
Wow...
For Nintendo, dead pixels "are normal and should not be considered a defect".
http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Support/N...-or-light-patches-on-the-screen--1201195.html
This is a "you're-holding-it-wrong" level of customer misinformation.
It's one thing to own up to their business decision of not taking care of people with bad screens (i.e. we're not willing to pay the price for selling you screens with defects because they're too common), but to tell them a defect isn't a defect is just an anti-consumer practice
They won't even say how many are "small numbers".
Is 4 dead pixels in the middle of the screen a "small number", Nintendo?
For Nintendo, dead pixels "are normal and should not be considered a defect".
http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Support/N...-or-light-patches-on-the-screen--1201195.html
This is a "you're-holding-it-wrong" level of customer misinformation.
It's one thing to own up to their business decision of not taking care of people with bad screens (i.e. we're not willing to pay the price for selling you screens with defects because they're too common), but to tell them a defect isn't a defect is just an anti-consumer practice
They won't even say how many are "small numbers".
Is 4 dead pixels in the middle of the screen a "small number", Nintendo?
I haven't heard of dead pixels in absolutely ages. I assumed it wasn't an issue any more.
tongue_of_colicab
Veteran
Totz is getting his panties in a twist about nothing.
Dell (and probably all others) do exactly the same. I believe dead pixels are pretty uncommon these days but as the production process isn't 100% perfect companies still have these dead pixel policies.
Dell pixel additional pixel warranty, last updated three months ago.
http://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/04/SLN130145/dell-lcd-display-pixel-guidelines?lang=EN
Edit
Apple indicates dead/stuck pixels are acceptable as well.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202025
Dell (and probably all others) do exactly the same. I believe dead pixels are pretty uncommon these days but as the production process isn't 100% perfect companies still have these dead pixel policies.
Dell pixel additional pixel warranty, last updated three months ago.
http://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/04/SLN130145/dell-lcd-display-pixel-guidelines?lang=EN
Edit
Apple indicates dead/stuck pixels are acceptable as well.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202025
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
I have no idea if it's an issue with the Switch's panels or not. It's definitely an issue on a number of units, but I have no idea on the proportions of units affected by it.
With so many companies offering "zero dead pixel" policies nowadays, I also find it strange that Nintendo would have such a defensive and rigid position on it. But to be honest it could be a non-issue on the grander scale.
What does bother me is the "this is not a defect" misinformation.
Nintendo doesn't make display panels. The pixel policies they adapt are or should be aligned with the quality control adopted by the display manufacturer for this specific model.
One could think that if they ordered their displays from a manufacturer that guarantees a very high percentage of units without dead pixels, Nintendo shouldn't have to worry about trading in a Switch for every 1000 sales.
Then again, we never know how much of this is related to actual display defects and how much is related to protecting themselves from scams or lawsuits.
From your Dell link:
From your apple link:
My comment referred to Nintendo trying to "educate" their customers by telling them dead pixels aren't defects.
You then proceeded to share links with two major companies acknowledging that dead pixels are defects.
Maybe the next time you accuse somebody of getting their "panties in a twist about nothing" you should provide links that counter their argument, not corroborate it.
I mean it's fine by me that you supported my claim.. it's you who won't be taken very seriously.
Interesting DF comparison of WiiU and Switch (docked) Zelda:
Both have drops into the 20's, but in different places.
I strongly suspect processing of being the issue for WiiU, and BW being the issue for Switch (given that the same assets and same streaming are used for flawless 720p mobile mode). I think when there are too many memory operations on the fly the system chokes up.
The game was designed for the WiiU and is basically identical on Switch down to the blades of grass. If made from the ground up I suspect different management of workloads (the way streaming is handled, the density and way vegetation drawn etc) would allow for a better outcome. I don't think this this will be representative of Switch exclusive games from Nintendo.
I think DF are underestimating the massive amount of tile-unfriendly overdraw that the WiiU tuned vegetation - especially grasses - are causing. Drawing grass back to front with no consideration of screen space locality could cause a lot of traffic between rop cache and main memory.
And, yeah, it's bilinear filtering on Switch even when docked.
Both have drops into the 20's, but in different places.
I strongly suspect processing of being the issue for WiiU, and BW being the issue for Switch (given that the same assets and same streaming are used for flawless 720p mobile mode). I think when there are too many memory operations on the fly the system chokes up.
The game was designed for the WiiU and is basically identical on Switch down to the blades of grass. If made from the ground up I suspect different management of workloads (the way streaming is handled, the density and way vegetation drawn etc) would allow for a better outcome. I don't think this this will be representative of Switch exclusive games from Nintendo.
I think DF are underestimating the massive amount of tile-unfriendly overdraw that the WiiU tuned vegetation - especially grasses - are causing. Drawing grass back to front with no consideration of screen space locality could cause a lot of traffic between rop cache and main memory.
And, yeah, it's bilinear filtering on Switch even when docked.
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