Nintendo Switch Tech Speculation discussion

[Deleted member 13524]

This will be an extremely risky move by Nintendo as they are trying to make portable/console hybrid that might appeal to neither Japan (were it might be seem to big/not portable as a handheld) and neither North America (where handhelds are not as popular and it is too "weak" as a console)

Like the Wii U was risky by not being more powerful than the PS360 while keeping a rather high price tag and being a year away from PS4 and Xbone's releases.
By staying (again) within PS360 performance levels, we're back to no-man's-land for multiplatform titles.

I think the biggest problem here is that, if 2 SMs @ 300/768MHz are confirmed, NIntendo is calling it a hybrid, but it's in fact just a portable console with (hardly any) passable hardware that has a video output for the big screen.
Smartphones have MHL, the PSP had TV-out and even the Vita had a TV-out port (that was never implemented through a peripheral), and even the Game Gear had TV-out effectively making it a portable Master System.
And come late 2017 and early 2018 any chinese tablet maker could design a similar mobile console with a Mediatek chip that surpasses the Switch's performance in docked mode.

Detachable controllers are the gimmick Nintendo is placing their bets on, and I doubt it's nearly enough to make the console any interesting.
Unless - again - this is really cheap and targeting former 3DS japanese developers. But at that point it might be too big for a 3DS replacement.

Yet there isn't even a rumor of such modifications, thing you don't realise is Nintendo will go the cheapest route, to me it sounds like wishful speculation, been hearing for 3 generations now.

Couldn't care less about what it sounds like or what you think I do or don't realize.
My only point is eurogamer's specs other than the clocks are speculation and the article itself leaves that pretty clear.

 

[RDGoodla]

So...380 Gflops docked, 150 Gflops in handheld mode?

It seems that developers can choose 150Gflops when docked if they don't want to run QA twice?

Besides, can the GPU performance of NS (mobile mode) surpass iPhone 6 or iPhone 6s?

 

[DieH@rd]

Remember back when Nvidia said "Porting PS4, Xbox One, and PC games to Nintendo Switch is simple."

Yeah, simple my arse.

It is simple... as in, you don't have to retool everything like on older Nintendo hardware. But power difference is too large. I'm sure that tech wizzards will manage to port SOME games [with a lot of sacrifices] on Switch if they really want to, but looking at this right now, this looks like another standalone console from nintendo that does not aim to get general multiplatform support.

I'll still wait for release to confirm final specs and final judgement, but if these are true then my only guess is: can Nintendo take another Wii U-like hit?

This looks more like successor to 3DS. With all of their teams focused on a single hardware and good support from Japan [Pokemon, Monster Hunter, etc], it could sell well... if the price is good.

they should allow for higher clock mode even in potable mode when the console is plugged in.

It looks like they don't want to add complexities. Make game run at 720p in portable mode, it can then run easily in 1080p in docked mode. Adding more power to docked mode could push devs [and 1st party Nintendo devs] to waste money on shinier graphics.

It's clear to me that this thing was designed to be a handheld first that also has the option of being plugged into the TV.

Yeah, looks like it.

 

[mpg1]

Just did some quick math...Scorpio will have 15X the GPU Flops as Switch in docked mode...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Regardless, we know there's a fan. If there's a fan there's probably a heatsink too, otherwise the fan alone would have made less sense than just a more elaborate heatsink.
I don't see where people suggested bank-breaking cooling solutions. A heatpipe and a heatspreader plate were the most exquisite things suggested and those are/were hardly going to be bank-breaking.

I said fancy, not bank breaking. As in, talk was about how much cooling could be achieved and how many watts of GPU could be squeezed in there and how powerful that'd be. I'm guessing the fan is only for when docked - it'd be a horrific battery drain in portable mode, and the low clock suggests battery life is a major priority.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The 40% of power when undocked headlines have started, which I suppose is the clickbait version of the specs reveal.

Nintendo Switch grows 250% more powerful when docked!

 

[AlNom]

It's not even it's final form.

(wouldn't it be +150%?)

 

[Esrever]

I'm waiting for the "Weaker than Wii-U" headlines.

 

[eastmen]

It is simple... as in, you don't have to retool everything like on older Nintendo hardware. But power difference is too large. I'm sure that tech wizzards will manage to port SOME games [with a lot of sacrifices] on Switch if they really want to, but looking at this right now, this looks like another standalone console from nintendo that does not aim to get general multiplatform support.




This looks more like successor to 3DS. With all of their teams focused on a single hardware and good support from Japan [Pokemon, Monster Hunter, etc], it could sell well... if the price is good.



It looks like they don't want to add complexities. Make game run at 720p in portable mode, it can then run easily in 1080p in docked mode. Adding more power to docked mode could push devs [and 1st party Nintendo devs] to waste money on shinier graphics.


Yeah, looks like it.

I don't get this. At the start of the gen we had game run on ps4/xbox one and xbox 360 / ps3. The switch in portable mode is I believe a quad core cpu with a 320 gflop gpu and 4 gigs of ram. That goes against a tri core cpu with a 240gflop gpu and 512 gigs of ram. The gpu in the switch is also a modern gpu vs the one designed in 2004 for the xbox 360.

I think ports will work just fine they will just be lower resolution with lower res textures. Like I've said in the past I believe the system will make games that look great on that 6 inch screen and will be fine in docked mode. I just wish it had a bit more power in portable mode

 

[BRiT]

I'm waiting for the "Weaker than Wii-U" headlines.

Well it remains to be seen what will look and run better, Portable Switch Zelda or Wii U Zelda.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I'm waiting for the "Weaker than Wii-U" headlines.

Followed by the 'Weaker sales than Wii U" headlines.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's not even it's final form.

(wouldn't it be +150%?)

Slightly wonky presentation leads to better PR...

 

[bunnybug]

Like the Wii U was risky by not being more powerful than the PS360 while keeping a rather high price tag and being a year away from PS4 and Xbone's releases.
By staying (again) within PS360 performance levels, we're back to no-man's-land for multiplatform titles.

I think the biggest problem here is that, if 2 SMs @ 300/768MHz are confirmed, NIntendo is calling it a hybrid, but it's in fact just a portable console with (hardly any) passable hardware that has a video output for the big screen.
Smartphones have MHL, the PSP had TV-out and even the Vita had a TV-out port (that was never implemented through a peripheral), and even the Game Gear had TV-out effectively making it a portable Master System.
And come late 2017 and early 2018 any chinese tablet maker could design a similar mobile console with a Mediatek chip that surpasses the Switch's performance in docked mode.

Detachable controllers are the gimmick Nintendo is placing their bets on, and I doubt it's nearly enough to make the console any interesting.
Unless - again - this is really cheap and targeting former 3DS japanese developers. But at that point it might be too big for a 3DS replacement.


Couldn't care less about what it sounds like or what you think I do or don't realize.
My only point is eurogamer's specs other than the clocks are speculation and the article itself leaves that pretty clear.

yea eurogamer confirming those specs were recently announced to developers, sure sounds like speculation. it seems like you want everything to be speculation unless it's positive or official from nintendo.

 

[Megadrive1988]

Surprise, Surprise

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-nintendo-switch-spec-analysis


CPU: 1GHz both docked and undocked
GPU: 768MHz docked, 307 MHz portable

Lower than my lowest expectations.

 

[orangpelupa]

Now I'm concerned with the screen. Hopefully they use good quality screen this time. Not the usual washed out screen with bad outdoor visibility and very thick layers.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=226861686#post226861686

Finally, the recently published Switch patent application actually explicitly talks about running the fan at a lower RPM while in portable mode, and doesn't even mention the possibility of turning it off while running in portable mode. A 2 SM 20nm Maxwell GPU at ~300MHz shouldn't require a fan at all, and although it's possible that they've changed their mind since filing the patent in June, it begs the question of why they would even consider running the fan in portable mode if their target performance was anywhere near this.

 

[Goodtwin]

I would venture to guess that the patent is misleading, and that the cooling fan running slower than docked could actually be not running at all. It doesn't seem likely for a Tegra X1 clocked at 300Mhz to need a cooling fan. If these rumors are indeed true, then the rumors about terrible battery life must have been inaccurate. There is no way a Tegra X1 running at these low clocks would suck a decent battery dry in 3 hours. Even when docked, its seems crazy to need fan cooling at 700Mhz when the Google Pixel C clocks at 850 Mhz with passive cooling.

In the scheme of things, this all maters very little. If the price is right and Nintendo can release a lot of high quality games, it "could" sell well just like the 3DS. Being a pretty traditional chip also means the system could have its price reduced annually. We could see a $149 Switch in two years or less.

I'm not going to lie guys, I am disappointed. I really thought Nintendo was going to release a hybrid that bridged the gap between current gen consoles and portables, but it looks like they are really releasing a Wii U 2.0 as far as hardware goes. I really get the feeling that this is the console that they wish Wii U had been back in 2012. Is it too late? I don't think so. Its still the only dedicated portable coming to market, and their launch lineup blows away that of the Wii U and 3DS. Zelda is going to sell a lot of Switch units, combine that with a new 3D Mario and GOTY editions of Mario Kart 8, Smash Bros and Splatoon, and you have a compelling reason for consumers to be interested. So I am still excited for the Switch, but disappointed that Nintendo didn't push for a better on the TV experience.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I would venture to guess that the patent is misleading, and that the cooling fan running slower than docked could actually be not running at all. It doesn't seem likely for a Tegra X1 clocked at 300Mhz to need a cooling fan. If these rumors are indeed true, then the rumors about terrible battery life must have been inaccurate. There is no way a Tegra X1 running at these low clocks would suck a decent battery dry in 3 hours. Even when docked, its seems crazy to need fan cooling at 700Mhz when the Google Pixel C clocks at 850 Mhz with passive cooling.

IIRC the Pixel C runs at 850MHz - 100MHz more than rumored docked Switch - and according to what I've seen so far it hardly ever throttles. All this while running its CPU cores at up to 1.9 GHz instead of Switch's 1GHz.

Tablet thickness and fan simply don't match with 2 SM TX1 at 300 - 750MHz.

And then there are reports of TX1-based dev kits having very loud fans. The Shield TV runs the GPU at constant 1GHz and CPUs at constant 1.9GHz without power-saving throttling, yet its fan is reportedly inaudible in every review I've seen.
Why would Nintendo make devkits with loud fans for a 1GHz CPU and 750MHz GPU if a Shield TV could already achieve 90% faster CPU and 25% faster GPU with silent operation?

 

[function]

Comparisons between phones and tablets and a games consoles are potentially hugely invalid and terribly myopic.

Consoles have to be able to run the equivalent of a power virus on both the CPU and GPU simultaneously without throttling or overheating (if you don't believe me look at the Hot Chips presentation on the 360S). And a toy maker can't have a handheld become red hot or even "really really warm".

NX isn't tuned to run a damn android benchmark once with minimal throttling, it's built to take years of abuse from hour after hour of platform specific, hand tuned code without ever deviating from its performance profile.

 

[Goodtwin]

IIRC the Pixel C runs at 850MHz - 100MHz more than rumored docked Switch - and according to what I've seen so far it hardly ever throttles. All this while running its CPU cores at up to 1.9 GHz instead of Switch's 1GHz.

Tablet thickness and fan simply don't match with 2 SM TX1 at 300 - 750MHz.

And then there are reports of TX1-based dev kits having very loud fans. The Shield TV runs the GPU at constant 1GHz and CPUs at constant 1.9GHz without power-saving throttling, yet its fan is reportedly inaudible in every review I've seen.
Why would Nintendo make devkits with loud fans for a 1GHz CPU and 750MHz GPU if a Shield TV could already achieve 90% faster CPU and 25% faster GPU with silent operation?

I hear you, trust me, if anyone here would love for this to be wrong its me, but Eurogamer gained my trust with their dead on leaks back in July. This is a giant leap going from 3DS to the Switch, and modest Gamecube to Wii jump for Wii U gamers, but I really feel in my gut that this is all legit.

In the attempt to rationalize all of this (talking myself off the ledge), a gaming product designed to sustain full throttle operation for 5+ hours at a time is certainly different than a tablet. We know that the Pixel C clocks at 850 Mhz, but how long can it play demanding games before it throttles? Also, what does chip utilization look like with that thick layer of Android API at the base. I have also contemplated the idea that perhaps Tegra X1 is severely memory bottlenecked. Correct me if I am wrong, but if your weakest link is always memory bandwidth, you could see a lot of wasted cycles elsewhere waiting on the memory to feed the processors. Nintendo and Nvidia may have done a ton of testing on the Tegra X1 only to find out that the real world gaming performance of the chip didn't change much when lowering the clocks.

Super Crude Example Game Demo
Tegra X1 1Ghz Clock 1080P
Max FPS 48
Min FPS 26
Average FPS 34

Super Crude Example Game Demo
Tegra X1 700Mhz Clock 1080P
Max FPS 36
Min FPS 26
Average FPS 31

Basically, if your finding that the weak link is the limiting factor regardless of clock speed, then perhaps the energy savings of lower clocks quickly starts to win out. Holding a solid framerate in games is very important, and widening the gap between max framerate is and minimum doesn't do a lot of good really. Does this make any sense? Tell me it does, its getting cold up here on this bridge. LOL