Nintendo Revolution Controller Revealed

[Powderkeg]

Actually this isn't entirely true. Calligraphers (at least some depending on how good your teacher is!) are taught to write using the whole arm. The results are smoother and more consistent then fingertip writing.

And more stressful on your arms, and time consuming. And Calligraphers usually write letters that are many times larger than normal lettering.

The main difference is people aren't taught to use their arm for fine control, so when they give it a try they can't match the control of the fingers. People are very adaptable. Indeed one might say arms have more control then feet, but some armless artists have shown that even a leg+foot can manage excellent motor control when trained.

And it usually takes years of training, so if you buy a Revolution at launch, you should start getting really good with it by about the time you are ready to replace it, right?

 

[mckmas8808]

All I have to say is 3rd party killer. Take a look at the control scheme.

I would like to point out that dispite its simplicity, this thing actually has lots of buttons.

- You have analog and physical movement which covers dual analog.

- L + R triggers by rotating left and right

- L2 + R2 = front and back

- B + A on the remote-style part

- 2 trigger buttons on the analog part (X and Y)

- D-Pad for quick mapping.

Now how can a game like NBA Live 06 be played with this controller? Remember they have those new superstar moves that require you to press L1 + and face button. So will the end user have to rotate left hold the maybe X button, while using the analog stick to control the movements of the player.

Man I don't know seem like a lot to me.

 

[Crusher]

Hey Ingenu, thanks for locking the other thread. I always like being forced to join a conversation I haven't been following that's 9 pages long already. Guess I should have stuck with my instincts and stayed out of this forum.

RE the topic: Typical Nintendo affair trying to win the hearts and minds of children and people who don't play video games. I won't be getting one.

 

[Powderkeg]

Because you hold a mouse over the top half only, while this controller is held with the fingers curled around it, thus providing much better support.

Better support? No. Lesser support. My mouse is supported by a desk. I simply rest my hand on it. With the Nintendo controller, you have to keep your arm raised and free floating. No way is that better support than a solid oak desk. (And if you doubt that, let me put my 20 inch monitor on your outstretched hand and see if you can hold it up with one hand and remain perfectly motionless for 24 hours straight.

Also, you happily ignored Chalnoth's point about a deadzone, and the (inherent inability) to measure very slight movements.

No I didn't. I said very specifically that by introducing a dead zone you now require the gamer to overcompensate on movement, which reduces your ability for fine control.

Geez dude, don't you think nintendo has thought about, investigated and researched these concerns already? You must not have very high regards of their engineers.

Besides, you seem to completely disregard the human ability to learn and adapt. If button-presses leads to unwanted motions during gameplay, our brain will compensate automatically with a bit of training by either relaxing the pressing-motion, slightly tensioning muscles pulling in the opposite direction, or a combination thereof.

So, after you get angry and frustrated many times by the poor controls, you'll eventually learn how to live with it?

Keep in mind that most people will make their judgement on how good it is within the first 5 minutes. Some kid at a store KIOSK will probably go nuts with frustration, and decide they don't want one because it doesn't work perfectly the first time they pick it up.

Are you trying to make things sound more difficult in regards to this new controller in an effort to bash it? Sure sounds like it buddy... Anyway, now I need to go out and ingest some hot spicy thaifood.

Are you trying to say it's the greatest thing since the controller was invented just because some Nintendo rep told you so?

I have used various gyroscopic type controllers before. This isn't some new revolutionary technology. In fact, most of it has been done before on consoles. I'm sure the controller will work great on certain types of games designed specifically for it, but it has a LOT of shortcommings when compared to the traditional gamepad.

Think of it like this.

You only have 2 buttons, a 4 way D-Pad, and the 6 way movement of the controller to work with. Anything beyond that would require an add-on and developers can't count on every gamer having the add-on, (Or a GCN controller either) so, they have to make the game work with those limited controls.

Now, let's look at some popular game types.

Racing:
Gas
Brake
Steering (Left and right)
Gear Up
Gear Down
Handbrake
Nitrous/Turbo boost
Weapons for combat racers (Select and fire)

Assuming you use the controller movement to control steering, you can map the gas to the single trigger and the brake to the A button.

How do you gear up/down and use the handbrake and the Nitrous? The D-Pad? But that would mean you couldn't downshift while braking. So are all of your racing games going to be limited to just gas and brake, forced automatic transmission, no nitrous, and definitely no weaponry?

FPS
Move any direction
Look any direction
Fire
Alt fire
Change Weapons
Use
Jump
Duck
Reload

You can do movement with the D-Pad and Free Look with the controller movement, fire with the trigger, but what about the rest? You've only got one button left, so which controls are you going to give up?


Fighters
4 way movement
Punch high
Punch low
Kick high
Kick low
Block
Jump
Duck

Now, you could map the movement to the controller movement. Puch could be the B button (trigger) and Kick could be the A, with the D-Pad used to determine high and low, but how do you jump, duck, and block?

Like I said, for games designed specifically for the controller, I'm sure it will work great, but very few developers are going to design games around this controller, and porting PS3/Xbox 360 games that make full use of gamepad controls (2 analog sticks and no less than 8 buttons, plus the clickable sticks) will be damn near impossible to port.

 

[Powderkeg]

All I have to say is 3rd party killer. Take a look at the control scheme.

Now how can a game like NBA Live 06 be played with this controller? Remember they have those new superstar moves that require you to press L1 + and face button. So will the end user have to rotate left hold the maybe X button, while using the analog stick to control the movements of the player.

Man I don't know seem like a lot to me.

Keep in mind that the analog stick controller is an add-on and not everyone will have it. You'll either have to require it (Which makes gamers mad if they don't already have one) or design your game to be played without it.

Yeah, it's going to kill off a lot of 3rd party/multiplatform support, which is sad considering Nintendo doesn't have much of that now.

 

[one]

Keep in mind that the analog stick controller is an add-on and not everyone will have it.

Iwata said it's bundled in the package.

 

[Phil]

The possibilities excite me, but Powderkeg makes some brilliant valid points. It's already difficult enough playing eye toy - I already feel tired just looking at the thing imagening my hand would have to keep the remote afloat to actually use in a game...

 

[Powderkeg]

Iwata said it's bundled in the package.

Where did you read that? Every place I've read, including Nintendo's own web site refers to it as an expansion or add-on.

 

[Nightz]

Whats the latest on the specs?

 

[swaaye]

I think it would be suicide for them not to include the whole thing. I hope they see that as well. Nintendo should know as well as anyone that console periphs do not sell all that well. They were around during the Sega era.

And honesty who really cares if the crappy ports don't come? I can understand sports games being a concern (assuming this controller doesn't offer playability enhancements for those too). I don't personally buy any sports games though. On the point though, I don't give a rat's ass about EA's (ie) crapware being ported over. I only own a few crossplatform games for my Cube and they are not exactly great titles. The titles developed specifically for the system are the good games usually.

 

[Powderkeg]

And honesty who really cares if the crappy ports don't come?

I'm quite sure Nintendo will care if they find they are unable to sell the system do to a lack of 3rd party support, and if they fail to make a profit do to low sales and almost zero royalties.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Interesting thread, comments/debate. I think the entire thing comes down to two simple questions:

1) Do you believe this controller going to encourage third party support?

2) Do you believe that MS and Sony are now behind the eight ball and scrambling around to copy this controller and make it a peripheral for the X360 or the PS3?

If the answer to both those questions is "No", then I think you can tell the future/practicality/success of this new controller. If you think the answer to both those questions is "Yes", then i've got a set of bongo drums to sell you!

 

[Squeak]

1. Write your name holding a pencil in your fingers.

2. Now tape a pencil to your hand and write your name.

See a difference? The fingers are where the fine motor control is in the human animal, being controlled by muscles in the hand whose job is fine movement. Asking the entire hand to be that accurate is asking larger clumsier muscles in the forearm to try to do a task they are not suited for. The muscles in the forearm are meant for holding and manipulating larger objects (a club, a knife, an axe) and the application of power.

I applaud Nintendo for trying to innovate, but I've used the old Nintendo Power Glove and it was the most frustrating "controller" ever devised. Some of this is because it used older technology, which has hopefully been improved, but some of the frustration is based on human anatomy which has not and will not change. For some games, maybe you won't need much accuracy, but I assume most games will require some modicum of precision in your pointing, making the use of this controller an exercise in frustration.

Take a small slender remote, hold it between your index-finger and your thumb and rest the backend of it in your other fingers.
Now you will be able to move it around with good precision.

 

[rumaki]

Didn't someone from Nintendo say that games today were already too long and too hard and that they would be targeting simpler and shorter games? if so then the real question is did that idea come before the controller was created/imagined or was it thought of in relation to the usage of the new controller. It does make including access to the back catalog seem prescient now.

 

[Ragemare]

Using the controller as a 'laser pointer', those tiny movements could be several millimetres on the screen depending on how you sit away from it. I remember a lightgun on Sega Master System and held in two hands close in the cursor still wobbled at a distance of a few feet from the screen. Modern tech and filtering might be able to compensate somewhat. It'll be interesting to see how effective the results are.

Well I don't plan on sitting on the other side of my house.

 

[mckmas8808]

Keep in mind that the analog stick controller is an add-on and not everyone will have it. You'll either have to require it (Which makes gamers mad if they don't already have one) or design your game to be played without it.

Yeah, it's going to kill off a lot of 3rd party/multiplatform support, which is sad considering Nintendo doesn't have much of that now.

WHAT!!! I didn't even realize that. Wow you have got to be kidding me. So, the only that comes with the console is the remote? Is that true? It can't be. Can it? *rubs chin*

 

[Squeak]

Iwata said in the keynote that the analog is included.

 

[mckmas8808]

If the answer to both those questions is "No", then I think you can tell the future/practicality/success of this new controller. If you think the answer to both those questions is "Yes", then i've got a set of bongo drums to sell you!

Good questions man. I just don't see why MS or Sony would want to bite off of this. I mean why? The current controller doesn't have any true problems. When Nintendo created the analog stick that was a small but great change. Shouldn't changes to something as important as a controller be small, subtle, yet good ideas? Controllers have virtually been the same since the NES days.

 

[JarrodKing]

I see some people still think high precision aiming will be possible with the Revolution's controller. Think back to any time you've seen someone use a laser pointer to give a presentation. Try as they might they will find it impossible to keep the red dot on a single point in space. Human muscles by nature are incapable of maintaining an exact position in space. This only gets worse as the muscle groups that you hope to use become larger (as they Revolution is doing by forcing your entire hand and arm to be precise). Not trying to be a party pooper, but I do see large problems with this. People think it's going to be so easy to just point at your tv and aim to shoot someone, but I'm afraid the reality is it will just turn into an annoying pain in the ass unless the thing your shooting at is enormous on the screen.

 

[hongcho]

Jitters can be dampened with software. You may loose accuracy, but depending on the game type, you may or may not want the jitter (e.g., for shooting, it will be more "real").

Anyway, I do see the possibility. The key thing will be the accuracy. Obviously this isn't a "light gun".

So, to calibrate the range, you probably would be asked to move the controller to the edges (that you feel) and press a button. Then the software can interpolate between the ranges.

However, if you sit too far from the TV or the TV is quite small (i.e., the ratio of the screen size to the distance to the screen is small), the accuracy of the gyroscope may get pushed to its limit.

Maybe that's why Nitendo didn't want the HD. With the SD resolution, the required control accuracy is less.

Hong.