Nintendo: For the Win

[OtakingGX]

I woudln't say power is the limiting factor for realistic AI and physics, it's the programmers' abilities. You can have all the processing power in the world and that doesn't make it any easier to create a physics engine. At the end of the day the game needs to be released, preferably not 10 years from now, so you have to stop spending time and resources on something that isn't yet absolutely perfect and call it good. If that weren't the case, nothing would ever get released.

There will be many Revolution games that are just graphically improved games that we currently play with a new controller. There will also be "games" like Brain Training on the DS. This will be the avenue by which Nintendo tries to draw in new consumers. Most people laugh at the thought of an interactive cooking simulator, but what if you actually learned how to make the dishes from the game (or recipes you downloaded) and could go into your kitchen and whip them up? That wouldn't appeal to gamers, but I bet it would to burgeoning chefs.

 

[pc999]

Yes the human factor will always be a limiting factor , but if spec are to low that dont help too, I really hope they do a good update on specs.

Anyway I am really interesting in seing if they go for reduced prices on games, after all from waht we hear their games will cost up to 15x less than the others (avereange in GC is ~800.000$, they said it will cost only a bit more so I guess that averange it will be ~1M (even then it is 25% more) against a averange of 15M$ beasts) so they can have room to do that and I think this is one of the keys for true mainstream market, plus there should be so many very interesting games that people will want to try them all.

 

[patsu]

I really don't think i'll work. It looks to be too difficult to hook up to the average consumer and too comfusing with all the controller configurations and add-ons. This approch is far more different than DS so one shouldn't predict the same success. GC didn't "win" because of the hype that was ps2 and the fact that it was a stripped down playful looking console (when compared to ps2). DS was going to be successful regardless because of it's predecessors. DS is considered the next gameboy and that coupled with price for games and hardware plus previous franchises insured the same success if not more, ofcourse truth being the latter.

Help me out here. What semi-official sources have you seen that say the Revo controller most likely will not "work" ? I have seen countless forum posts but most are not so credible. e.g.
* J. Allard (Well... I thought of that idea before and we asked around, developers weren't too hot so we dropped it)
* Mark Rein (Was a mis-quote ?)

I also seem to recall Japanese developers, including Kojima commented positively about the controller. So I'm more optimistic than most I guess.

As for power vs controller, I think it depends on how you use them. As long as they contribute supremely to gameplay (rather than just more enemies on screen, or minute rendering details, or even realistic particle effects) it would be a step in the right direction. In my book, it is NOT a disadvantage to create a world where the players have to use some imagination to extend the experience. It's part of the package.

For now, I'll just have to assume that Revolution can create lesser but reasonable graphics even on HD. Can't wait for Twilight Princess.

 

[fearsomepirate]

I can't think of many really successful console games in recent years that didn't attain that success through "power", either graphically, or to fuel a gameplay mechanic - or more often both - that wasn't based on a popular license.

Um, how about most PS2 games since the Xbox debuted? GTA series anyone? How about every time a PS2 port like Mercenaries or Burnout 3 sells well on the Xbox? How about any console game since you could get an early DX9 PC card for around $100? I guess maybe some people were excited for Halo 2 because the graphics were basically Halo 1 + Normal Maps (OMG TEH POWAR), but I don't know anyone who was proclaiming it some sort of FPS graphical revolution, especially not since Far Cry was already out. Look, if there were all that many people who bought systems based primarily on power, Xbox would have sold 50 million units last generation and PS2 sales would have started plummeting as soon as people saw those shiny bump maps in Halo.

I'm not saying anything about Revolution. I'm just saying power isn't necessarily what does it. In the case of PS2 vs Dreamcast, I do believe that Sony's hyping of the Emotion Engine went a long way to killing the machine. But in Everything Else vs PS2, it just didn't matter.

 

[Nicked]

Um, how about most PS2 games since the Xbox debuted? GTA series anyone? How about every time a PS2 port like Mercenaries or Burnout 3 sells well on the Xbox? How about any console game since you could get an early DX9 PC card for around $100?

Bzzzt. Nope.
Equating the gap between PS2~Xbox to Revolution~PS3 is silly at best. PS2 was never laughably underpowered compare to the Xbox and it was certainly never percieved that way.
GTA, Mercenaries and Burnout 3 are fantastic examples of utilising a systems "power" positively and a game being successful because of it. I still challenge you to name a game.
PC gaming != consoles.

I guess maybe some people were excited for Halo 2 because the graphics were basically Halo 1 + Normal Maps (OMG TEH POWAR), but I don't know anyone who was proclaiming it some sort of FPS graphical revolution, especially not since Far Cry was already out. Look, if there were all that many people who bought systems based primarily on power, Xbox would have sold 50 million units last generation and PS2 sales would have started plummeting as soon as people saw those shiny bump maps in Halo.

Because "power" affects just graphics lolamirite? Halo sold the Xbox, and Halo was about fantastic AI and huge maps.
PS2 was certainly less powerful than the Xbox, but it wasn't as dramatic as what we're going to see this time around.

I'm not saying anything about Revolution. I'm just saying power isn't necessarily what does it. In the case of PS2 vs Dreamcast, I do believe that Sony's hyping of the Emotion Engine went a long way to killing the machine. But in Everything Else vs PS2, it just didn't matter.

Revolution is not going to be the PS2 of this generation. Its going to be a last-generation console going up against next-generation consoles. We've never before seen how that scenario works out...

 

[winstonsmith1978]

I don't think Nicked realizes what consumers actually care about.

Do you think consumers go out a buy games because there "powerful" for the generation the game was released.

When people start downloading old school mario for the virtual NES, do you really think they are going sit there and say to themselves, "the only reason i'm still playing this game is because, when it was released, it was a really "powerful" game."

GTA had bad graphics for this generation, bad AI for this generation, bad physics for this generation, it also had a lot of bugs and was unrefined ------ but it was still one of the best games this generation because of an innovation that had nothing to do with "power."

how about Katamary Damacy, was this a powerful game?

You're subjective concept of "power" is absurd. Some people buy games because they look good, others buy games for other reasons. The Rev will have a more "powerful" controller and games that use it, will be more "powerful."

 

[pc999]

Yet power to some extent (I really doubt that is needed more than XB360 level) can make a big difference in the gameplay games like HL2, FC, D3 even with the need for only a bit more power than corrent gen , yet if you see my sig you can see that a lot can be made with more power and take games for a brand new level of gameplay (and I am not talking about detail/normal maps/paralax etc... and those money hungry gfx fx), but for that is needed more power and I really hope that Rev can bring it (PS3 still have some chances too), with the controler, better specs, voice control (they offer a micro with the Super Mario Party 5), free online, cheap gaming, and a few more suprises (that they already said they still have some) and the interesing thing is that they really have that chance as they already meet many of those goals. What I am trying to say is that spec is not all that matters but it is a very important of the equation (at least, it still is).

It would be a really pity if they miss it.

 

[OtakingGX]

Bzzzt. Nope.
Equating the gap between PS2~Xbox to Revolution~PS3 is silly at best. PS2 was never laughably underpowered compare to the Xbox and it was certainly never percieved that way.
GTA, Mercenaries and Burnout 3 are fantastic examples of utilising a systems "power" positively and a game being successful because of it. I still challenge you to name a game.
PC gaming != consoles.


Because "power" affects just graphics lolamirite? Halo sold the Xbox, and Halo was about fantastic AI and huge maps.
PS2 was certainly less powerful than the Xbox, but it wasn't as dramatic as what we're going to see this time around.



Revolution is not going to be the PS2 of this generation. Its going to be a last-generation console going up against next-generation consoles. We've never before seen how that scenario works out...

You must have some insight into what's going on at Nintendo that we don't. Everyone is saying "2x Gamecube" or "Xbox+" based on what some developers told IGN of their preliminary dev kits. If that were truly the case, then Nintendo would have saved a pile of money on research and development of Revolution and would not have seen profits dip to half of what they were the previous year.

Katamari Damacy has already been brought up. Geometry Wars is by far less technically advanced as any of the Xbox 360 launch lineup, but is regarded by many as the best reason to buy the system. 3DMark really exploits the power of a system, but last I checked nobody was raving about it.

Most gamers still regard Final Fantasy VII as the best game Square has made. Despite all the improvements that have been made and the better use of "power" this game is still the best because it did something new. Every Final Fantasy since has just attempted to improve that winning recipe. PS3 and Xbox 360 are just better PS2 and Xbox, while Nintendo is trying to capitalize on the new direction paradigm.

 

[damisa]

PS3 and Xbox 360 are just better PS2 and Xbox, while Nintendo is trying to capitalize on the new direction paradigm.

PS2 is just a better PS1. It seemed to do pretty well.

In my opinion, Nintendo's biggest problem is public (casual gamers) perception. Gamecube was already cheaper than the competition and it also had great Nintendo 1st party games, yet it sold the least systems. I think the biggest challenge facing the REV is how they're going to market it. It will have to overcome the perception of being underpowered. Nintendo can come out with the funnest game ever, but if it isn't marketed properly, people probably won't even give it a chance.

 

[ImaginaryIndustryInsider]

I dont know why is everyone conviced that they will not have 3 party suport, after all many dev already said they want to work on it, plus many devs are really worried about cost and (once that it is rumured that will cost not much more than current gen games) as you can use next gen budget to make several current gen games many dev are worried even they can even make 1 game this can be the only solution for many, a betterone or if you are a big dev why not invest in a cheap project.

So we have dev interested in Rev, a lot of buzz about Rev, safer (better for many) investiment, the possibility of make easly a new name in the market I would wonder why would Rev lack suport?

The question isn't whether the Rev will have 3rd party support at launch, but whether it will be able to keep and grow that support, instead of slowly losing it like the N64 and Gamecube did?

 

[OtakingGX]

PS2 is just a better PS1. It seemed to do pretty well.

In my opinion, Nintendo's biggest problem is public (casual gamers) perception. Gamecube was already cheaper than the competition and it also had great Nintendo 1st party games, yet it sold the least systems. I think the biggest challenge facing the REV is how they're going to market it. It will have to overcome the perception of being underpowered. Nintendo can come out with the funnest game ever, but if it isn't marketed properly, people probably won't even give it a chance.

Well, I think that's why Nintendo hired the Regginator. Increasing VH1's ratings by 30% is nothing short of a miracle, in my mind. Usually Nintendo doesn't have the in-your-face marketing campaign that Sony and Microsoft do. This time around, I think it'll be different.

Having been an avid gamer, and grown bored with videogames as a whole lately, I've made my way out of Sony and Microsoft's core demographic. I'm not hardcore, I won't spend $400 just for a console, plus $150 for a controller, memory card, and game. I enjoy gaming, still, but the price of admission is just becoming too high. I probably would not have even considered spending money on a next gen console until I heard about Nintendo's plans for the Revolution.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well, I think that's why Nintendo hired the Regginator. Increasing VH1's ratings by 30% is nothing short of a miracle, in my mind. Usually Nintendo doesn't have the in-your-face marketing campaign that Sony and Microsoft do. This time around, I think it'll be different.

Having been an avid gamer, and grown bored with videogames as a whole lately, I've made my way out of Sony and Microsoft's core demographic. I'm not hardcore, I won't spend $400 just for a console, plus $150 for a controller, memory card, and game. I enjoy gaming, still, but the price of admission is just becoming too high. I probably would not have even considered spending money on a next gen console until I heard about Nintendo's plans for the Revolution.

Oh please! Everybody knew that Nintendo was going to be a little cheaper than the competition. So what you will be getting your moneys worth with the PS3 or Xbox 360. That extra money is worth getting the more powerful systems. But at the sametime Nintendo's plan is smart too.

 

[pixelbox]

Some people here keep associating power only with graphics. That power could provide better gameplay. Now, i never said that REV's controller wouldn't work. I said that it wasn't seemingly easy to hook up for the consumers they want, the "nongamers". Also these "nongamers" could become confused with all of the controller configurations. That's what i don't believe will work but as i say all the time, we will see.

 

[OtakingGX]

Oh please! Everybody knew that Nintendo was going to be a little cheaper than the competition. So what you will be getting your moneys worth with the PS3 or Xbox 360. That extra money is worth getting the more powerful systems. But at the sametime Nintendo's plan is smart too.

Is the extra money really worth it though? I have a PC, so what added value does the Xbox 360 hold? I can't fathom myself sitting around my place with a bunch of buddies slobbering over my new PS3, prattling on about how much power it has.

Purportedly the controller is shaped like a remote because anyone who owns a TV is familiar with how it works. You bait them in with a simple control mechanism. People who don't feel like delving further into the system won't, those who do, will buy more games and learn to use the attachments with them. The big key to making this stragety successful is a stellar launch title or two that use only the remote.

 

[Nicked]

I don't think Nicked realizes what consumers actually care about.

Do you think consumers go out a buy games because there "powerful" for the generation the game was released.

When people start downloading old school mario for the virtual NES, do you really think they are going sit there and say to themselves, "the only reason i'm still playing this game is because, when it was released, it was a really "powerful" game."

GTA had bad graphics for this generation, bad AI for this generation, bad physics for this generation, it also had a lot of bugs and was unrefined ------ but it was still one of the best games this generation because of an innovation that had nothing to do with "power."

how about Katamary Damacy, was this a powerful game?

You're subjective concept of "power" is absurd. Some people buy games because they look good, others buy games for other reasons. The Rev will have a more "powerful" controller and games that use it, will be more "powerful."

1) I think I have a better understanding than you. You're totally missing my point and equating "power" = graphics.

2) This is a retarded analogy at best.

2) GTA utilised the "power" in a different way. To fuel a rich 3D world inhabitated by many entities that was not previously possible because of hardware limitations. Trying to argue that GTAs success didn't come about because of increased "power" is silly. Stupid. Fucking insane.

3) Wow a title that released at $20 achieved a modicum of success. I'm sorry for doubting, because thats really successful.

Oh, and what a system seller Katamari is. Converting all the masses as it does. Its ~20k units in its first month in the US set the world alight.
(yes it did much better in Japan)

4) Correction: Rev may have a more powerful controller. And my concept of "power" is far better than yours, if I do say so myself.

You must have some insight into what's going on at Nintendo that we don't. Everyone is saying "2x Gamecube" or "Xbox+" based on what some developers told IGN of their preliminary dev kits. If that were truly the case, then Nintendo would have saved a pile of money on research and development of Revolution and would not have seen profits dip to half of what they were the previous year.

Hey, heres a better idea of what Nintendo was spending their money on.

Smallest console ever perhaps? Oh and Nintendo will want to be able to manufacture the thing very cheap.

YKatamari Damacy has already been brought up. Geometry Wars is by far less technically advanced as any of the Xbox 360 launch lineup, but is regarded by many as the best reason to buy the system. 3DMark really exploits the power of a system, but last I checked nobody was raving about it.

Last I checked no one was actually buying a system just for Geo Wars. If they were buying a system just to play a $5 game I don't think MS would be too happy. And 3DMark is a program, not a game. And besides, it has thousands of fans.

Most gamers still regard Final Fantasy VII as the best game Square has made. Despite all the improvements that have been made and the better use of "power" this game is still the best because it did something new. Every Final Fantasy since has just attempted to improve that winning recipe. PS3 and Xbox 360 are just better PS2 and Xbox, while Nintendo is trying to capitalize on the new direction paradigm.

What the hell. FFVII may be considered the best because of two reasons: Nostalgia and a kickass character. Why was it successful at the time? It was a fantastic display of the PSOnes power, with gorgeous CGI and one of the biggest marketing campaigns ever. It brought little to the genre though.

I love how you guys are trying to twist a statement about power into this whole "why are old/niche titles doing decently" thing. Point meet missed.

 

[Magnum PI]

Is the extra money really worth it though? I have a PC, so what added value does the Xbox 360 hold?

even if you have a PC that is as powerful as the xbox360, games won't let you enjoy the full potential of the PC, whereas on xbox360 they will be tailored for the console.

plus much of the xbox360 content won't be available on PC.

 

[Magnum PI]

i think it is too early to predict how well the revolution will do.

anyway i will hazard some speculation, mainly based on my very subjective perception.

someway i think nintendo don't care as much as MS or sony about dominating, as long they have some decent fraction of the market from which they can make lots of money.

i don't see them being overly aggressive, fighting for the top position against PS3, and especially make some financial gamble.

i think they can succeed in japan , but their success will be more limited outside, escpecially in the US (à la nintendo DS)

20 % of the global marketshare would be good, i'm not hoping much more.

 

[see colon]

i think they can succeed in japan , but their success will be more limited outside, escpecially in the US (� la nintendo DS)

by "limited success" do you mean "selling more than what is percieved to be your direct competition, turning a rediculous profit, and satasfying most of your customers with solid producs"?

the DS is doing just fine in the US. and so is the PSP. the PSP is just having a little more trouble on the home turf.

even if you have a PC that is as powerful as the xbox360, games won't let you enjoy the full potential of the PC, whereas on xbox360 they will be tailored for the console.

plus much of the xbox360 content won't be available on PC.

this new generation of machines will offer less in terms of "full potential" of system power. gaming has become mass market. developers are licensing middleware at astronomical rates. you aren't going to see much "tailor made" content anymore. sure there will be some. but look at the number of licenses UE3, renderware, jupiterEX, and id have picked up.

 

[Serenity Painted Death]

Well, technically, in the U.S. the PSP is selling at a good bit brisker pace than the DS, even though DS did sell more overall for the year (due to being out a few months prior). DS is kicking PSP up and down in Japan though, in hardware and especially software sales, though this past week PSP actually outsold DS by about 3k units in Japan... though this is obviously due to the shortages they are experiencing.

 

[see colon]

that doesn't invalidate anything i said. the DS is hardly a limited success in any territory. and neither is the psp. if the DS wasn't doing astronomical in japan, the PSP would be considerd wildly successfull. it's been keeping up pretty well most weeks with the PS2 even though it costs 50% more.