Next-Generation NVMe SSD and I/O Technology [PC, PS5, XBSX|S]

To be fair DS does offer performance improvements on SATA III SSD's and not just NVME drives.
I recall some benchmarks earlier this year and the improvements were minor. But again, much depends on someone's expectations. It's not a magic bullet to drastically slash load-times even on modern hardware in the way the changes of this generation of consoles was really quite spectacular when developers put in the effort, e.g. Astro's Playroom, Spider-Man and Miles Morales, Horizon Forbidden West, and Ratchet & Clank.
 
I recall some benchmarks earlier this year and the improvements were minor. But again, much depends on someone's expectations. It's not a magic bullet to drastically slash load-times even on modern hardware in the way the changes of this generation of consoles was really quite spectacular when developers put in the effort, e.g. Astro's Playroom, Spider-Man and Miles Morales, Horizon Forbidden West, and Ratchet & Clank.

Forspoken loads in 1.9 seconds on an NVME drive and 3.7 seconds on a SATA III SSD so it's actually really good.

With most SATA III SSD's pushing 500MB/s they're still quite potent and should be pretty close to NVME drives, well for the time being at least.
 
MODS - I'm curious, how easy is it to move posts to another thread like you just did? 👀

On another note, now that I finally have a motherboard with an NVME slot in it I'm thinking doing I order an NVME drive now or wait?

Do I get a cheap 2.5GB/s one and upgrade later or just get one to match the Series consoles?

Hmm..
 
Spider-Man and Miles Morales, Horizon Forbidden West, and Ratchet & Clank.

They will perform up to par with the native ps5 versions IO/storage wise.

On another note, now that I finally have a motherboard with an NVME slot in it I'm thinking doing I order an NVME drive now or wait?

Do I get a cheap 2.5GB/s one and upgrade later or just get one to match the Series consoles?

If you have PCIe4.0 then get a quick pcie4 nvme, not just to match or outperform the consoles, but to be more future-proof and other performance (if your doing more then just gaming).
 
If you have PCIe4.0 then get a quick pcie4 nvme, not just to match or outperform the consoles, but to be more future-proof and other performance (if your doing more then just gaming).
It's only a B450 board so it's PCIEX3.0 for the NVME drives.

I ended up getting a 1Tb drive that's rated at 3.5GB/s, the smaller 500GB drives were only a little cheaper so it made more sense to double storage for not much extra.
 
It's only a B450 board so it's PCIEX3.0 for the NVME drives.

I ended up getting a 1Tb drive that's rated at 3.5GB/s, the smaller 500GB drives were only a little cheaper so it made more sense to double storage for not much extra.

Allright, 3.5GB/s should be enough anyways. GPU decompression should increase that if you have a compatible gpu. I'm still on the 2080Ti which i likely will not swap for something else for a long while to come, together with 3900x/x570 and a pcie4.0 nvme (samsung 980 pro 1tb for the games). Paid abit over 130usd for the m2 drive, its not too much for a high performance pcie4 ssd.
For storage i have something slower. I think some have that need to upgrade which isnt really needed in every case. My GPU is two generations old/4 years when lovelace releases, though i still dont really need to upgrade. If anything the CPU is going to be more of a limiting factor seeing how fast 5800x3d and 12900k cpus are relatively.
 
On another note, now that I finally have a motherboard with an NVME slot in it I'm thinking doing I order an NVME drive now or wait?

Do I get a cheap 2.5GB/s one and upgrade later or just get one to match the Series consoles?
The longer you wait, the cheaper they'll get. I paid £375 for a 2Tb WD Black SN850 for my PS5 about a year ago, and just spent around £250 for the exact same drive for my new PC build. I also got a smaller WD SN770 just for Windows 11. All of the states must be solid. :yep2:
 
I'm just going to offer a different perspective on this. I don't fall into this camp but you'd be surprised at how many people feel they need to "all" their games installed all the time and don't want to manage and swap drives. This means from their perspective they aren't comparing a $60 NVMe drive vs. $60 HDD, but say a 2TB HDD vs. 2TB NVMe drive (or even higher capacities).

For people that only play a couple if not 1 game at a time, such as myself, the bar of entry is now low price wise. But not for the above.
Reasonable point, but I think people can and will adapt to a lower capacity than 2TB if they need to in order to play the latest, technically impressive games. It's not like you cant still have other drives, including any ones you've already got installed. Obviously my $60 example is a bit extreme as I dont expect many people will be happy with a 500GB drive for games, I was just demonstrating that this isn't like being asked to buy some expensive new cutting edge CPU or GPU or something. It's a relatively affordable, easy upgrade to make, using a slot that otherwise wouldn't be used for anything else(meaning you make no compromises in using one).

Even if there is a bit of a moan from some, the alternative of just 'missing out' when your PC is otherwise up to snuff will be too much for PC gamers to bear.

But again, gamers will not start making these upgrades in large numbers until there's games that actually utilize them. The developers are the only ones who can solve this chicken+egg problem.
 
I feel we need to split this discussion in two as it greatly affects the performance implications being discussed here.

1) Load times. The time tolerance here is much higher in that you aren't likely going to notice load time differences in seconds and therefore performance differences between SSDs that could impact this in terms of seconds isn't likely to be particularly relevant in practice.

vs.

2) Streaming in data during game play especially per frame. Keep in a mind a single frame at 60 fps is just 16.7ms. This means potential performance differences between SSDs that might result in millisecond differences will matter.

Reasonable point, but I think people can and will adapt to a lower capacity than 2TB if they need to in order to play the latest, technically impressive games. It's not like you cant still have other drives, including any ones you've already got installed. Obviously my $60 example is a bit extreme as I dont expect many people will be happy with a 500GB drive for games, I was just demonstrating that this isn't like being asked to buy some expensive new cutting edge CPU or GPU or something. It's a relatively affordable, easy upgrade to make, using a slot that otherwise wouldn't be used for anything else(meaning you make no compromises in using one).

Even if there is a bit of a moan from some, the alternative of just 'missing out' when your PC is otherwise up to snuff will be too much for PC gamers to bear.

But there is a bit of chicken and egg problem here in terms of the incentive to upgrade and therefore driving adoption vs. incentive of developer support dependent on adoption.

Right now is there even a single game that will show very tangible benefits? If you say buy a $500 or even more expensive graphics card for instance we know tangible what benefits you will receive from that and how wide those benefits will be in terms of support. Compared to even a $60 outlay for a NVMe drive, over what they currently have, which may or may not be the right choice once the games come around actually "requiring" one.

For example take this posts -
On another note, now that I finally have a motherboard with an NVME slot in it I'm thinking doing I order an NVME drive now or wait?

Do I get a cheap 2.5GB/s one and upgrade later or just get one to match the Series consoles?

Hmm..

I would have a different opinion against some of the responses above in terms of upgrading now. Why would you upgrade now unless you expect NVMe drive prices to shoot up (NAND prices do cycle, so it possible we see prices rise sometime in late 2023 or later depending on the cycle and macro conditions, but this is another complex topic)?

We have no data on what the situation will be at all in practice once Direct Storage, or whatever solution developers go for, actually ends up being widely implemented in the wild. So I don't see how a person can be confident how much of a benefit they will get from upgrading. Also what upgrade makes the best sense. For all we know once implementations hit we do find certain drive characteristics do lead to better or worse real results. Or even the cheapest off brand QLC SATA ends up being the same. Who knows.

Forsaken is the first Direct Storage game still scheduled but delayed to Jan 2023 I believe? Even with that we won't know how representative it is for other releases with a sample of one.
 
Why would you upgrade now unless you expect NVMe drive prices to shoot up

1. Because I've never had an NVME drive and my e-Peen was tingling

2. I use a modular PSU so now I can unplug yet another power wire from it and make my PC wiring even neater (I can also remove another SATA cable too)

3. In a world where the price difference per GB between NVME and SATA is none existent why would you not choose a faster drive over the slower one?

4. Because why not
 
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It also depends on if you do more then gaming. Its also not really expensive anymore, for below 100usd you can get quite high performance m2 solutions. If you have a pcie3, 4.0 or even 5.0 slot, why not?
 
Reasonable point, but I think people can and will adapt to a lower capacity than 2TB if they need to in order to play the latest, technically impressive games. It's not like you cant still have other drives, including any ones you've already got installed.

My 2016 gaming PC had a 4Tb HDD and 256gb SSD and I'd just shuffle games back and forth using a free utility. You can have as mean Steam installation folders on the same or different drives as you like. And Steam has long allowed you to Move the Installation folder of a specific game.
 
1. Because I've never had an NVME drive and my e-Peen was tingling

2. I use a modular PSU so now I can unplug yet another power wire from it and make my PC wiring even neater (I can also remove another SATA cable too)

3. In a world where the price difference per GB between NVME and SATA is none existent why would you not chose a faster drive over the slower one?

4. Because why not

Just to clarify I was also using your existing post as an example scenario of why the current scenario may not be enticing for people to commit to higher performing NVMe drives at this time.

As for why you wouldn't upgrade now I highlighted that in my post in that we simply don't have the data at the moment to know what characteristics with a new SSD will have the most tangible impacts with respect to future games which implement Direct Storage. So if that is your main driver to upgrade I would not do so now.

What if we find out that having the fastest NVMe drives actually have tangible differences than slower NVMe drives? What if we find out even the cheapest drives perform the exact same? What if we find out your existing storage solution performs the same? What if we find out there are specific drive sub characteristics that make a difference (this means that you're really fast PCIe 4.0 might actually slow for Direct Storage due to some weak sub characteristic)?

At least my understanding with your phrasing is that you are primarily upgrading in preparation for Direct Storage and you have an existing satisfactory storage situation, possibly a SATA SSD.

Of course for completely new builds at the moment there isn't much reason to buy SATA over NVMe. However there still is a question there in terms of whether or not a faster or slower NVMe matters in the future.
 
I feel we need to split this discussion in two as it greatly affects the performance implications being discussed here.

1) Load times. The time tolerance here is much higher in that you aren't likely going to notice load time differences in seconds and therefore performance differences between SSDs that could impact this in terms of seconds isn't likely to be particularly relevant in practice.

vs.

2) Streaming in data during game play especially per frame. Keep in a mind a single frame at 60 fps is just 16.7ms. This means potential performance differences between SSDs that might result in millisecond differences will matter.
I agree. I also think we need to consider which type of resource is being streamed as not all of them will affect framerate.

Texture uploads are often done asynchronously, for example. In those cases, slower drives might simply load the high res versions a few frames later or even skip them entirely. But it might not affect framerate at all.

SFS also throws another spanner into the works where rendering resolution affects the streaming rate. It’s not quite linear but running Intel’s DS/SFS demo at 4k shows a 2x-3x higher data rate over 1080p.
 
Some games basically requires nvme. The latest hop step sing vr concert thingy for example.

It instantly loads with nvme. Took awhile on sata ssd. Not responding for lots of minutes on HDD.

Because at launch, the game loads 6GB into RAM.
 
What if we find out that having the fastest NVMe drives actually have tangible differences than slower NVMe drives? What if we find out even the cheapest drives perform the exact same? What if we find out your existing storage solution performs the same? What if we find out there are specific drive sub characteristics that make a difference (this means that you're really fast PCIe 4.0 might actually slow for Direct Storage due to some weak sub characteristic)?
That just means the cost of entry for the technology just becomes cheaper, which is a good thing for everyone.
 
That just means the cost of entry for the technology just becomes cheaper, which is a good thing for everyone.

and it already happens to some extend. Cheaper pcie 3 nvme that's faster than more expensive pcie 4 nvme.

Case in point, my pny nvme. The cheaper pcie 3 model is faster than the pcie 4 model ROFL.

Samsung 980 pcie3 also sometimes got price drops making it quite cheap, and still faster than many pcie 4 nvme with higher price
 
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