Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [2018]

[Shifty Geezer]

You wouldn't get additional sales from the feature. It's not worth retrofitting to the 1S (they'd have to develop a transfer/backup app as well as adding cost to the console to add a user accessible drive). It makes little sense to add it to 1S. It makes plenty of sense to add it to a new console to offer a better user experience and keep users happier, especially if the starting storage option is very limited and you need faster, low latency access. As described before, something as straight forward as an M.2 slot behind a lift-up flap will be idiot-proof. Users won't gain anything by the internal being fixed, but will gain if it's user replaceable, so there's no sane reason to argue against its inclusion. It's been proven to work in former PlayStations so there are no concerns there, and SSD capacity and price should change dramatically over the 5+ years of the console being around.

 

[BRiT]

Microsoft did say they were able to improve I/O on the fixed drive on the OneX because of their mounting system (vibration cancellation?). I'm not sure if the same would be suitable for user-replacable HDD slots.

 

[MrFox]

Silicone grommets. Yes they are also present on the ps4s and slim ps3. The theory is that it can reduce the retry read rate. You can always analyse it with the drive's SMART data, that number is a tiny fraction of the total lifetime read, so the impact is not really about performance, more about damage to the hdd, especially important with non-replaceable drives.

The launch ps3 didn't have much vibration protection for the hdd. I suppose the stupid weight helped though.

 

[mrcorbo]

You wouldn't get additional sales from the feature. It's not worth retrofitting to the 1S (they'd have to develop a transfer/backup app as well as adding cost to the console to add a user accessible drive). It makes little sense to add it to 1S. It makes plenty of sense to add it to a new console to offer a better user experience and keep users happier, especially if the starting storage option is very limited and you need faster, low latency access. As described before, something as straight forward as an M.2 slot behind a lift-up flap will be idiot-proof. Users won't gain anything by the internal being fixed, but will gain if it's user replaceable, so there's no sane reason to argue against its inclusion. It's been proven to work in former PlayStations so there are no concerns there, and SSD capacity and price should change dramatically over the 5+ years of the console being around.

There would be additional cost and if people don't really seem to care enough now about the presence of a user replaceable drive system drive to have it effect sales, why would they start caring about it next gen? I'm still expecting a tiered storage solution with a fair amount (64 or 128GB) of solid-state storage present as cache and bulk storage being provided by a mechanical drive. Continuing to allow additional bulk storage to be added via an external drive would be perfectly adequate in that scenario.

 

[vipa899]

If it wont be named arcturus doesnt mean amd doesnt have has a successor in the works to navi. 2020/21 probally sees the new gpu + zen 3 and zen 4.

 

[goonergaz]

Silicone grommets. Yes they are also present on the ps4s and slim ps3. The theory is that it can reduce the retry read rate. You can always analyse it with the drive's SMART data, that number is a tiny fraction of the total lifetime read, so the impact is not really about performance, more about damage to the hdd, especially important with non-replaceable drives.

The launch ps3 didn't have much vibration protection for the hdd. I suppose the stupid weight helped though.

I think it was also to keep the noise down - XBO was all about noise levels being really low (from memory) as it was supposed to be an all-in-one constantly on device.

There would be additional cost and if people don't really seem to care enough now about the presence of a user replaceable drive system drive to have it effect sales, why would they start caring about it next gen? I'm still expecting a tiered storage solution with a fair amount (64 or 128GB) of solid-state storage present as cache and bulk storage being provided by a mechanical drive. Continuing to allow additional bulk storage to be added via an external drive would be perfectly adequate in that scenario.

If there is a 2 tier solution then maybe yes, but if it's like this gen, no...there are plenty of people who care. And next gen with games getting bigger and people getting more 'savvy' then more people will care. Personally I prefer a one-box solution, I hate extra wires/boxes...if nothing else it looks messy, is more things to get dusty and uses up ports.

Something weird I had on my X is I had to have the HDD in the front USB port - really odd.

 

[AlNom]

Something weird I had on my X is I had to have the HDD in the front USB port - really odd.

How lewd.

 

[mrcorbo]

If there is a 2 tier solution then maybe yes, but if it's like this gen, no...there are plenty of people who care. And next gen with games getting bigger and people getting more 'savvy' then more people will care. Personally I prefer a one-box solution, I hate extra wires/boxes...if nothing else it looks messy, is more things to get dusty and uses up ports.

"Prefer" is one thing. "This feature will have a meaningful impact on my decision of whether or not to purchase this product" is another.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

"Prefer" is one thing. "This feature will have a meaningful impact on my decision of whether or not to purchase this product" is another.

That's true of most features though. Very few of the niceties will make the difference between a sale or not, so why don't these companies save some money and release bare-bones systems? Because the overall package and experience is what people buy into, and the more positive vibes you can generate, the overall value and sales increase.

 

[goonergaz]

"Prefer" is one thing. "This feature will have a meaningful impact on my decision of whether or not to purchase this product" is another.

But realistically what meaningful impact on cost does it have? I mean, we had the PS4 and Kinect-2-less XBO and PS4 was still better VFM. It'll be a few quid tops to include a nice feature...why are you so against it anyway?

 

[mrcorbo]

But realistically what meaningful impact on cost does it have? I mean, we had the PS4 and Kinect-2-less XBO and PS4 was still better VFM. It'll be a few quid tops to include a nice feature...why are you so against it anyway?

I'm not against it. I'm indifferent.

 

[mrcorbo]

That's true of most features though. Very few of the niceties will make the difference between a sale or not, so why don't these companies save some money and release bare-bones systems? Because the overall package and experience is what people buy into, and the more positive vibes you can generate, the overall value and sales increase.

I'm skeptical about the impact of this particular feature on people's purchasing decisions.

 

[goonergaz]

I'm not against it. I'm indifferent.

I'm indifferent on other features but don't really question their worth...obviously the bean counters do their work and decide what's worth including and as Sony have done this for 2 generations then it's clearly something they feel is worth it (vs the cost). Now look at BC, how much money has MS poured into that?

I'm skeptical about the impact of this particular feature on people's purchasing decisions.

It affects my purchasing decisions, I want the flexibility to have my machine have the fastest possible components (and a neat a possible). Whilst I would still buy PS5 next gen I'd be upset if the feature was removed.

Point is, who cares if you're sceptical? I'm sceptical about a great many things but they are important for other users...the console isn't for just you!?

I could understand if you were arguing against an expensive feature, or something that causes you some 'pain', but...you're not!?

 

[mrcorbo]

I'm indifferent on other features but don't really question their worth...obviously the bean counters do their work and decide what's worth including and as Sony have done this for 2 generations then it's clearly something they feel is worth it (vs the cost). Now look at BC, how much money has MS poured into that?



It affects my purchasing decisions, I want the flexibility to have my machine have the fastest possible components. Whilst I would still buy PS5 next gen I'd be upset if the feature was removed.

Point is, who cares if you're sceptical? I'm sceptical about a great many things but they are important for other users...the console isn't for just you!?

I could understand if you were arguing against an expensive feature, or something that causes you some 'pain', but...you're not!?

I'm not arguing against it. Again, I don't care either way. I'm trying not to project my own feelings onto the broader market, but I don't really see people lamenting the lack of user upgradeable internal storage in the Xbox One and this leads me to believe that most others are indifferent to the presence or lack of this feature as well. Maybe, I'm wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[iroboto]

I'm not arguing against it. Again, I don't care either way. I'm trying not to project my own feelings onto the broader market, but I don't really see people lamenting the lack of user upgradeable internal storage in the Xbox One and this leads me to believe that most others are indifferent to the presence or lack of this feature as well. Maybe, I'm wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm also indifferent.
Supporting BC from launch is my camel breaker imo, going into next gen without BC seems terribly misguided.
I'm purposely missing the boat on PS4, so I'm watching PS5 for BC.

If 1 console has RT and the other doesn't, that will be a deal breaker for me as well.

 

[goonergaz]

I'm not arguing against it. Again, I don't care either way. I'm trying not to project my own feelings onto the broader market, but I don't really see people lamenting the lack of user upgradeable internal storage in the Xbox One and this leads me to believe that most others are indifferent to the presence or lack of this feature as well. Maybe, I'm wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But that still doesn't explain anything. I mean, it's the sum of all the parts. The reason Xbox owners don't complain is because it was never a feature so it's not something they could miss. I wish I was invested heavily into the MS ecosystem so I could think of something that's always been a particular way so I could compare. I think shiftys response is spot on, and I still can't understand why you're picking on a feature that has zero negative impact on anyone. If you want to pick on something stupid then how about region locking game DLC, or if you buy a disk game and want to upgrade you have to re-download the whole digital version.

Now, those things are worth talking about!

 

[mrcorbo]

But that still doesn't explain anything. I mean, it's the sum of all the parts. The reason Xbox owners don't complain is because it was never a feature so it's not something they could miss. I wish I was invested heavily into the MS ecosystem so I could think of something that's always been a particular way so I could compare. I think shiftys response is spot on, and I still can't understand why you're picking on a feature that has zero negative impact on anyone. If you want to pick on something stupid then how about region locking game DLC, or if you buy a disk game and want to upgrade you have to re-download the whole digital version.

Now, those things are worth talking about!

I'm not picking on it. Having an additional feature is objectively better than not having it, even if you don't care about it, *unless* the presence of that feature somehow ends up detracting from the product in a way that you do care about.

 

[goonergaz]

I'm not picking on it. Having an additional feature is objectively better than not having it, even if you don't care about it, *unless* the presence of that feature somehow ends up detracting from the product in a way that you do care about.

And that's my 'problem' - I can't see what the issue is...maybe if you explained how it's 'detracting from the product in a way that you care about' (like my previous examples) then I'd understand why you've even bought it up!?

 

[vipa899]

I'm also indifferent.
Supporting BC from launch is my camel breaker imo, going into next gen without BC seems terribly misguided.
I'm purposely missing the boat on PS4, so I'm watching PS5 for BC.

If 1 console has RT and the other doesn't, that will be a deal breaker for me as well.

Same here, PS4 exclusives could be enjoyed on the ps5, with possibly better fps/higher res until new games see the light, which takes time over a consoles lifespan. Only reason for me getting one are exclusives, so hope ps5 will see many of them, more so then ps4.

Agree on RT, but if both dont get it il get a ps5 if theres exclusives again at 60fps, which should be possible with a ryzen cpu.

 

[lefantome]

It's time to have backward compatibility as standard.

The thing is... apparently the CPU tech is going towards ARM like architectures... are we going to have it with PS6?