Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [2018]
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Megadrive1988
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I'm sceptical. How would you cool a SoC drawing upwards of maybe 100W through several layers of DRAM? (Oh, and not also cook the DRAM.) And what if your SoC is larger than the DRAM stack, how do you reasonably cool the edges...?
That's a problem the semi-conductor industry will have to work on, and is working on. If it becomes viable for the PC industry then it should become viable for the console industry, but I'd imagine it's at least a decade away. That's why PS5 and the next Xbox probably need to last as long as the 360/PS3 gen did, like Tkumpathenurpahl mentioned.
I would be more impressed by the vague leak if we knew wether it's a PC with an amd gpu... or an nvidia gpu.This time, the alpha kits are probably going to be even closer to final architecture.
Maybe they sent them a samsung galaxy 9.
Looking around, he's one of the hundred "insiders" who make vague guesses and end up being right about half the time. I'll wait for Leadbetter to corroborate with real sources.
Says on his profile
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Seeing how PS4 is selling, 2019 is too early. And if they have plans for early PS4 successor, all we can expect is another "half step" machine like a Pro. However this time, devs will have option to make their software "gen9-only", so that could push fidelity a lot. Aside from Sony 1st party games and few other exceptions, I'm starting to be eager for games that are not targeting base PS4/xbone hardware. Give me bigger worlds, more objects, better physics, something that is built from ground up for a new hardware.
I don't want a Vita successor, I want full PS4 on the go. "Portable PS4" would be an amazing product for 2019 [while PS4 is still kicking ass and getting great games], but battery will be an issue. Even if 7nm is amazingly efficient they may creep up to ~20W in gaming [+they would need to power the screen], but even that is A LOT.Maybe it's a switch competitor.
I'm always torn on this and get both arguments. But a 2019 release is still ~20 months from now. Early adopters will be ready for something new. I think it's better to be proactive and release something for the early adopters lest they move on to a competitor or something else (PC).
Very difficult to imagine a portable ps4 even on 7nm, I'm thinking between 40W and 50W.
But because of the super low clock versus what the process can do, maybe it would allow some ridiculously low voltage, and hbm3 using 3d saves at least a dozen watts.
So:
Extreme ULV PS4 SoC on 7nm
New power reduction tech from AMD (hey, it needs a miracle, might as well use a good dose of imagination)
Ultra efficient VRMs
1 stack HBM3 8GB
60Wh battery
7mm slot loading bluray
Inset DS4-like controls
7 inch 1080p screen
20cm x 14cm x 3cm
Nine hundred and ninety nine US dollars...
No it's not reasonable at all!
I would instead see a half-CU half-clock ps4pro though. Half performance of ps4 needs the games to be retuned to work well, a third target for the same binaries. More power efficient than trying to shrink the original ps4.
But because of the super low clock versus what the process can do, maybe it would allow some ridiculously low voltage, and hbm3 using 3d saves at least a dozen watts.
So:
Extreme ULV PS4 SoC on 7nm
New power reduction tech from AMD (hey, it needs a miracle, might as well use a good dose of imagination)
Ultra efficient VRMs
1 stack HBM3 8GB
60Wh battery
7mm slot loading bluray
Inset DS4-like controls
7 inch 1080p screen
20cm x 14cm x 3cm
Nine hundred and ninety nine US dollars...
No it's not reasonable at all!
I would instead see a half-CU half-clock ps4pro though. Half performance of ps4 needs the games to be retuned to work well, a third target for the same binaries. More power efficient than trying to shrink the original ps4.
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Megadrive1988
Veteran
This shouldn't even be considered a rumor. No sources. Nothing.
p.s. I don't believe a PS4 portable would be feasible until 5nm in 2022+
Sure everyone else is free to adopt it but it's more than likely Sony is the first one to do it given their current position, unless we're optimistic enough to see a new Xbox launching two years after the One X.
BC patent from Cerny, nov 2015...
http://patents.com/us-9892024.html
It seems to be much more than just a boost mode testing for the Pro. Seems to be for testing power management clocking, having cpu cores, or gpu cores, or various caches, or memory bus, running at different clocks, both higher and lower. Resources taken away, apps running in parallel, reduced caches and buffers, reducing the execution rate of specific instructions (again both cpu and gpu). Adding latency, changing memory operation priorities... Why reduce the size of L1 cache to test BC?
Hard to read because of patent-speak
http://patents.com/us-9892024.html
It seems to be much more than just a boost mode testing for the Pro. Seems to be for testing power management clocking, having cpu cores, or gpu cores, or various caches, or memory bus, running at different clocks, both higher and lower. Resources taken away, apps running in parallel, reduced caches and buffers, reducing the execution rate of specific instructions (again both cpu and gpu). Adding latency, changing memory operation priorities... Why reduce the size of L1 cache to test BC?
Hard to read because of patent-speak
Skaal
Newcomer
Hey Guys i read alot on here but posted only once in 3years . So time for the 2.Post..
About that ps5 devkits Rumor.: what is your opinion about best Hardware specs possible if this(rumor) should be true ?
I was hoping for a bigger Step this time tflops wise. Around 12-15tflop maybe. But in this scenario it seems unlikely..
About that ps5 devkits Rumor.: what is your opinion about best Hardware specs possible if this(rumor) should be true ?
I was hoping for a bigger Step this time tflops wise. Around 12-15tflop maybe. But in this scenario it seems unlikely..
The cited patents are...irrelevant? And not actually cited anywhere? Still, at least we know Cerny is involved at Sony.BC patent from Cerny, nov 2015...
http://patents.com/us-9892024.html
It seems to be much more than just a boost mode testing for the Pro. Seems to be for testing power management clocking, having cpu cores, or gpu cores, or various caches, or memory bus, running at different clocks, both higher and lower. Resources taken away, apps running in parallel, reduced caches and buffers, reducing the execution rate of specific instructions (again both cpu and gpu). Adding latency, changing memory operation priorities... Why reduce the size of L1 cache to test BC?
Hard to read because of patent-speak
D
Deleted member 13524
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So what you're saying is a 7nm version of Liverpool would consume some 30% less power than the current 16nm PS4 Slim is consuming with disc spinning optical and mass storage drives, and desktop GDDR5?
Talk about pessimism...
The Smach-Z gets Xbone-like performance already, using a 14LLP SoC that consumes 15W.
Why is it so hard to consider a 7nm SoC from Sony could get PS4 performance, considering both GF and TSMC are predicting around 60% downsize in power consumption at ISO performance?
Only missing link so far is memory bandwidth, but between 256bit LPDDR4 / 192bit LPDDR5, HBM or even Wide I/O I'm sure Sony could find a way like they did in the past.
Any guesses on what the dev kits have, using currently available chips?
I'll shoot first:
- AM4 platform
- Ryzen 5 2400G
- Vega 56 8GB HBM2 at 1450MHz core / 950MHz memory.
- 16-24GB DDR4 2400MHz
Final solution will obviously be a full SoC, but Ryzen 2400G's iGPU would be used to test GPGPU functionality with very low latency on 11 CUs, whereas the Vega 56 should provide the overall final rendering performance (~10 TFLOPs).
They could alternatively not use the 2400G and go with e.g. a Ryzen 1700 with SMT disabled and locked at 3GHz instead, in case Sony is fully determined to get easy BC up and running from the start with little to no emulation.
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You have to consider what's out today. $499 for a Xbox One X and likely taking a loss due to ram prices today.
In 2 years time what are the realistic probabilities that Sony can produce a significantly more powerful console than One X at $100 cheaper?
They need to cover a new CPU license (a flagship CPU license), a new node process that they have to wait to come down in price per transistor to even compete with the current prices of 16nm, have more transistors if you want it in the 8TF - 10TF range, and at least the same amount of memory, if not more.
We haven't even gotten to increased hard drive speeds and space to support the higher fidelity or optical drives which Sony still hasn't factored into price yet for their current systems.
Not to mention with this new GPU architecture coming right around the corner for 2020 does that even make sense to still run on the current GCN architecture?
Is 2019 too close to figure out backwards compatibility? It took years of R&D for MS to get 360-> Xbox One.
And even between Xbox One X and Xbox One, or PS4 -> PS4Pro, to make compatibility easier they are essentially just mirrors of the GPU.
Tall order here. I hope they can deliver, but the realistic probabilities of a PS5 having all of these features in 2019 at $399 is not in your favour. If 2019 is forced I don't think we're going to see something much better than X1X performance range at $399; in which MS response may be to not have to do anything at all except to enable exclusives onto X1X platform to move the baseline upwards.
ahhh, i'll ask around but I don't think I'm going to get any hits.
But I think at this stage it's just likely the GPU performance profile for now, not even the same feature sets of the actual GPU. Most of these launch games don't take advantage of the actual custom hardware in the console until later in maturity.
SDK kits this early are often super overcharged kits.
Developers will be required to scale back as they get closer to production.
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