Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [2018]

[liem107]

I think it ´s clear that the industry is gearing towards RTRT...the question is ..when is next gen coming? If 2019 then it will unlikley be powerful enough for RTRT unless there was some super secret stuff in the works for last years...
i wonder if apple talking about RT in METAL, is an indication of what their future hardware will have.. intersection accelerator? Currently it seems gpu independant like dxr fallback .
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/606/

 

[Megadrive1988]

I doubt the consoles in 2019 or 2020 will be about RTRT. Meaning PS5 and Scarlet.

That's more than likely going to be for the generation after (and yes, I do think console cycles will indeed continue, at least from Sony, if not both Sony & Microsoft).

I don't believe the bullshit about traditional console cycles ending, not anytime soon.

 

[borntosoul]

I don’t believe cycles will be ending soon unless, we get into a another consol space...
Traditional consol space was more or less bespoke built from the ground up.
Current or last two generations have heavily borrowed from the pc space.
Next one will probably do the same.
Future will borrow from the mobile/tablet space because that’s the space where huge chunks of investment is going, both in hardware and software and is also growing the fastest. Look at apples new a12x bionic chip, it’s already on 7nm and by what they’re claiming it’s up to Xbox one S in graphics performance. That’s a ridiculous amount of growth in such a short time. If l was Sony or MS I’d be looking in that direction.
in time might be a hybrid chip based on the phone/tablet platform.
Cheers.

 

[DmitryKo]

the question is ..when is next gen coming? If 2019 then it will unlikley be powerful enough for RTRT unless there was some super secret stuff in the works for last years

Tim Sweeney from Epic Games has stated on several accounts that photo-realistic realtime ray-tracing would require either 40 TFLOPs (2016 Gamespot interview) or 25 TFLOPs (May 2018 issue of MCV magazine) of processing power. Epic's Stormtroopers UE4 demo originally ran on 4 GV100 (Volta) cards each having 13-15 TFLOPs.

If Sony PS5 is based on 7nm AMD Navi and is slated for Holiday 2019, it would come with 9-10 TFLOPs single-precision (FP32) and 18-20 TFLOPs half-precision (FP16), which is on par with GeForce RTX 2080.

However I believe that a mid-range Navi is unlikely to support raytracing capabilities, which would be reserved for a high-end HBM3 post-Navi architecture (AMD Arcturus). We shall find out on January 9.

I doubt the consoles in 2019 or 2020 will be about RTRT. Meaning PS5 and Scarlet.
That's more than likely going to be for the generation after

Microsoft DirectX Raytracing (DXR) API is an extension of Direct3D12 and I'm certain it would remain the graphics API for the next Xbox "Scarlett" - if the latter arrives on Holiday 2020, two years from now, it should have enough processing power and memory bandwidth to run today's DXR demos.

 

[DieH@rd]

Epic's Stormtroopers UE4 demo ran on 4 Titan V (Volta) cards each having 13-15 TFLOPs.

Those cards were brute forcing raytracing. Single 2080Ti can outpreform them in that type of workload.

 

[OCASM]

Consoles will simply have lower quality RT than PC.

 

[anexanhume]

I am somewhat genuinely surprised their tools would be that much better than what is available otherwise. I had always imagined the console advantage as eroding over time.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1057562954982416384

 

[BRiT]

Additional context from sebi and other devs--

https://twitter.com/x/status/1057564741118451713

https://twitter.com/x/status/1057565417298948096

https://twitter.com/x/status/1057637823816196097

 

[beyondtest]

Additional context from sebi and other devs--

https://twitter.com/x/status/1057564741118451713

https://twitter.com/x/status/1057565417298948096

https://twitter.com/x/status/1057637823816196097

I'd appreciate it if you could give me an easy to understand rundown on what performance profiler, profiling and profiling tools are and far superior compared to exactly what?

 

[chris1515]

I'd appreciate it if you could give me an easy to understand rundown on what performance profiler, profiling and profiling tools are and far superior compared to exactly what?

To profiling tools on other platforms like PC or mobile. I think @sebbbi prepare a mobile version of Claybook.

 

[beyondtest]

To profiling tools on other platforms like PC or mobile. I think @sebbbi prepare a mobile version of Claybook.

Thanks but would you please expand on it? I still don't understand.

Is it like Direct X? What does it do?

Is it like a low, mid, high setting for PC?

 

[beyondtest]

I don’t believe cycles will be ending soon unless, we get into a another consol space...
Traditional consol space was more or less bespoke built from the ground up.
Current or last two generations have heavily borrowed from the pc space.
Next one will probably do the same.
Future will borrow from the mobile/tablet space because that’s the space where huge chunks of investment is going, both in hardware and software and is also growing the fastest. Look at apples new a12x bionic chip, it’s already on 7nm and by what they’re claiming it’s up to Xbox one S in graphics performance. That’s a ridiculous amount of growth in such a short time. If l was Sony or MS I’d be looking in that direction.
in time might be a hybrid chip based on the phone/tablet platform.
Cheers.

Wasn't mobile's advantage about having a lean machine where they didn't need piles and piles of hardware that needs to do full b/c on PC programs resulting in less energy efficiency.

It sounds like consoles being custom in design (but not exactly traditional mobile) don't have to be bogged down by such and gain the same advantage even by using a more "pc like hardware".

I am not sure about the importance of b/c with consoles. The two leading systems don't have them directly but I personally think it's a good feature.

The entire industry looks to be going GPU heavy.

Intel investing.

Apple investing.

Not bad.

Product makers will have more options.

I have a feeling Intel is gonna go hard on APUs in a few years time other than a traditional GPU. Teasing all that laptops and games/esports. AI is probably a huge factor too.

 

[chris1515]

Thanks but would you please expand on it? I still don't understand.

Is it like Direct X? What does it do?

Is it like a low, mid, high setting for PC?

It helps optimization of GPU and CPU rendering. It helps reach the framerate and resolution and visual you want showing where are the bottleneck. It is some tools for developers.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Thanks but would you please expand on it? I still don't understand.

They allow you to profile how well your code runs on a machine. You can see what parts of your code use what amount of time, and see if there are any bottlenecks slowing execution, or holes in resources (idle processors) that could be filled with useful work. Profiling tools are part of the development tool chain and come with the developer environment or devkit.

 

[beyondtest]

To profiling tools on other platforms like PC or mobile. I think @sebbbi prepare a mobile version of Claybook.

It helps optimization of GPU and CPU rendering. It helps reach the framerate and resolution and visual you want showing where are the bottleneck. It is some tools for developers.

They allow you to profile how well your code runs on a machine. You can see what parts of your code use what amount of time, and see if there are any bottlenecks slowing execution, or holes in resources (idle processors) that could be filled with useful work. Profiling tools are part of the development tool chain and come with the developer environment or devkit.

Thank you both.

By the way, do PC and mobile have their equivalents?

 

[Kaotik]

Those cards were brute forcing raytracing. Single 2080Ti can outpreform them in that type of workload.

The 2080 Ti -version of the demo was downgraded IIRC

 

[chris1515]

Thank you both.

By the way, do PC and mobile have their equivalents?

Yes but the tools are better on PS4/XB1 than PC and mobile tools.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Thank you both.

By the way, do PC and mobile have their equivalents?

Yes.

 

[borntosoul]

Wasn't mobile's advantage about having a lean machine where they didn't need piles and piles of hardware that needs to do full b/c on PC programs resulting in less energy efficiency.

It sounds like consoles being custom in design (but not exactly traditional mobile) don't have to be bogged down by such and gain the same advantage even by using a more "pc like hardware".

I am not sure about the importance of b/c with consoles. The two leading systems don't have them directly but I personally think it's a good feature.

The entire industry looks to be going GPU heavy.

Intel investing.

Apple investing.

Not bad.

Product makers will have more options.

I have a feeling Intel is gonna go hard on APUs in a few years time other than a traditional GPU. Teasing all that laptops and games/esports. AI is probably a huge factor too.

I think another level up in efficiency is going to be the next game changer, that’s why I mentioned tablets and phones, that’s the space where we are seeing a lot of growth and investment atm. ( this is a bit premature l know) The sweet spot will be where absolute efficiency meets dollars to manufacture and economies of scale play a part too. The other features like larger APUs and ray tracing will come to fruition on the back of these foundations l believe.
I can’t wait to see if amd go with a Navi based system. Ray tracing will shine on the ps6.

 

[BRiT]

Thank you both.

By the way, do PC and mobile have their equivalents?

The PC equivalents are so far behind, hence the meaning of those tweets.