Next Gen Not Likely to be Backward Compatible says EA CFO

[babybumb]

No. But it means real games on VITA

I wonder if they are just PC versions that are really running with much higher settings than possible on PS3. I dont know how they would really stream PS3 exclusives realistically on server farms. They would need to be running on actual PS3s pretty much.. and they cant minimize lag like on PCs

 

[ERP]

Anyone knows how Gaikai works ? If I have PS3 assets (on disc) locally, can it sidestep the network limitations somehow ?

It sends compressed video in one direction and controller packets in the other.
I believe they handle mouse input differently, but that's basically it.
So no having local assets won't help at all.

 

[patsu]

Yeah... most likely a misreport. For "slow paced" PS3 games, those PC servers may have to be equipped with custom Cell cards too.

 

[ERP]

Believe it or not there is a rack mounted version of the PS3, though I've only ever seen one of them.
But they would still need infrastructure that worked with PS3, some sort of way to capture video without adding too much additional latency and some way to send input to it. I would not have thought it would be a short term thing.

 

[patsu]

Yes, I heard. They were used to run Warhawk servers I think. The AirForce ordered PS3 grid servers from Sony, so perhaps it's the same thing ?

For Gaikai, they will need extra resources to run Gaikai server code. I suspect it may be "easier" to run the PS3 games on Cell cards, if they ever go that route.

 

[ERP]

Yes, I heard. They were used to run Warhawk servers I think. The AirForce ordered PS3 grid servers from Sony, so perhaps it's the same thing ?

For Gaikai, they will need extra resources to run Gaikai server code. I suspect it may be "easier" to run the PS3 games on Cell cards, if they ever go that route.

Anything that requires modifying a games code is likely impractical.

 

[patsu]

Anything that requires modifying a games code is likely impractical.

Yes. A regular PS3 won't have resources to run both the game and Gaikai server at the same time.

A PC will essentially need to run a few embedded PS3 units.

Either way, it's a huge undertaking.

When they are done, the games may suffer from latency issues.

 

[Arwin]

Anything that requires modifying a games code is likely impractical.

You only need to do it for key exclusive titles though, as multi-platform titles (vast majority) will have a pc version available already. And it may be a worthwhile investment to have key exclusives in PC compatible format as that is closer to PS4 and can help as a step up to a full next-hen title. The savings for being able to use a PC infrastructure for Gakai are probably worth it.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47777881&postcount=1



>_< Doubtful.

Anyone knows how Gaikai works ? If I have PS3 assets (on disc) locally, can it sidestep the network limitations somehow ?

If the report is accurate, then it probably refers to only a few PS3 (PSN) titles.

Perhaps it uses the PS3 disc to authenticate your access to that game from Gaikai cloud. Keep the disc in your PS4 and then you can play that game through Gaikai.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Yes. A regular PS3 won't have resources to run both the game and Gaikai server at the same time.

A PC will essentially need to run a few embedded PS3 units.

Either way, it's a huge undertaking.

When they are done, the games may suffer from latency issues.

It will be sub-optimal compared to just keeping a PS3 around, for sure. I actually think the server costs probably wouldn't be do great a burden. Sony is in a better position than any of us to know exactly how many people actually make use of backwards compatibility on a new system. I think the number of people who demand BC is far more than the number of people who actually use it so it could end up that they'd never have more than 10K concurrent users The cost of building some server clusters for that many users would be vastly, vastly less than either including full hardware backwards compatibility, OR engineering an optional BC accessory.

Perhaps it uses the PS3 disc to authenticate your access to that game from Gaikai cloud. Keep the disc in your PS4 and then you can play that game through Gaikai.

That would be my guess. Simple disc check to make sure you have a real copy in the drive, and then start streaming a remote session of the game. Access to digital purchases would just be attached to your account.

 

[patsu]

Server cost is only part of the outlay. Usually they want high density servers to save on on-going space, electricity, and management cost.

You only need to do it for key exclusive titles though, as multi-platform titles (vast majority) will have a pc version available already. And it may be a worthwhile investment to have key exclusives in PC compatible format as that is closer to PS4 and can help as a step up to a full next-hen title. The savings for being able to use a PC infrastructure for Gakai are probably worth it.

That's a good point. We are still at square one. 8^(

What about the latency ?

 

[dagamer]

You only need to do it for key exclusive titles though, as multi-platform titles (vast majority) will have a pc version available already. And it may be a worthwhile investment to have key exclusives in PC compatible format as that is closer to PS4 and can help as a step up to a full next-hen title. The savings for being able to use a PC infrastructure for Gakai are probably worth it.

Even if a PC version of a game were available, there are too many hurdles to jump through since a) many PC versions of games aren't designed with a controller in mind b) PC versions of games don't connect to PSN and c) running a PC version of a game requires virtualizing Windows and that becomes mighty expensive.

Besides, this solution is pretty pointless in Japan where there are many PS3 exclusives which were never on the PC. It's not a "Japanese" way to do it.

Regardless of the costs of creating a PS3 server farm, I do expect such a system to require some kind of fee to use on a monthly basis. It may be as simple as $2/month, but it will prevent the service from being completely overloaded on day one when it's most likely to be used.

I'm not even worried about the latency issue, the problem is that the servers become less valuable over time as more and more people play exclusively PS4 games. Server capacity and costs are the same, generated revenue likely becomes less after a while. As such, if they want to be REALLY smart, these same server clusters should be able to run PS4 games when a hypothetical PS5 is released (if ever).

 

[patsu]

Yes, I feel that this Gaikai service has been misreported.

If Sony could deliver PS3 games to PS4 over Gaikai, they would also stream existing PC games to PS4. Or for that matter, to other client devices like Vaio. It wouldn't be a PS3 backward compatibility service alone.

[size=-2]It is time to tune mouse vs controller MP games.
It doesn't sound right.[/size]

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Regardless of the costs of creating a PS3 server farm, I do expect such a system to require some kind of fee to use on a monthly basis. It may be as simple as $2/month, but it will prevent the service from being completely overloaded on day one when it's most likely to be used.

How about it being a PS+ feature. I also think the actual load wouldn't be that high on day1. Not too many consoles are sold initially and how many of those would play PS3 games?

. It wouldn't be a PS3 backward compatibility service alone.

Well who says it's for that alone? They bought it for something, I'm guessing they are going to do something with it.

 

[patsu]

How about it being a PS+ feature. I also think the actual load wouldn't be that high on day1. Not too many consoles are sold initially and how many of those would play PS3 games?

The initial numbers may be small but it will be intense. People will be curious. They will play a few games, or check every one in their collection. Visiting friends will also ask for demoes. The press will stress it too, not to mention Anonymous and friends.

The initial experience may be rough until Sony refine the backend, and people's interest die off as it give way to real usage.

Well who says it's for that alone? They bought it for something, I'm guessing they are going to do something with it.

The article mentioned PS3 games specifically.

Game demoes would be a natural next step from their current goals. It fits well with PS+ full game trial also.

Local streaming may be interesting too.

If they really roll out server streaming, it will likely be optimized for some ISPs first.

Streaming PC games to PS4, or PS4 games to PC is possible too I reckon, but it may be confusing at first.

 

[Arwin]

GaiKai capacity targeted existing PC consumers and may already be far larger than the first year sales of PS4 is likely to generate.

As for PC versions not supporting controller, this is less so for multiplatforms and then there is this nice initiative from Steam called big-picture mode too.

And for PSN accounts, that should actually be pretty easy to pull off.

Porting PS3 exclusives will still be the hardest thing to do, but once done, they could well end up much less taxing for current PCs and maybe even be optimised for serving multiple play-sessions at once from one PC server.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Believe it or not there is a rack mounted version of the PS3, though I've only ever seen one of them.
But they would still need infrastructure that worked with PS3, some sort of way to capture video without adding too much additional latency and some way to send input to it. I would not have thought it would be a short term thing.

The big problem I see here is that due to the nature of the PS3, you basically have to have 1 PS3 per user accessing PS3 games over Gaikai. With PC games, you can virtualize it and have each rack potentially service multiple users in multiple games.

I'm not sure there'd be a cost benefit of doing something like that. The data center costs sound like it would be quite high.

Regards,
SB