News & Rumours: Playstation 4/ Orbis *spin*

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This is worth taking a look at:

http://gamingeverything.com/44227/lots-of-ps4-hardware-tidbits/

Even though no numbers are mentioned, the mention of a modified GPU and ACE's for Compute certainly reinforces rumours regarding the 8 ACE's & 8 CL's.

Mark Cerny, the lead architect behind the PlayStation 4, chatted with Impress Watch and shared a whole bunch of hardware tidbits. A number of details have been translated by the good folks over at NeoGAF.

  • They don’t just use off-the-shelf HSA stuff; they are using OpenGL to the point of “full access to the hardware.”

  • They mention having to drop BC as being a necessary evil to make sure devs will be happy going forward.

  • They used what they learned from the Cell to make a powerful console. The did this by having to modify the GPU, etc (via ACE for proper compute processing).

  • He also talks about 4k gaming, and he said they are focusing on 1080p, but he did say that they can, for example, put the OS UI in 4k, but render the game in 1080p.

  • With that, he says they’d like to save as many resources as possible to ensure that 1080p because having the 4k UI alone will take 10 GB/s.

  • The drive can read CD’s–the system just won’t support playback of music CD’s.

  • He also mentions the custom on CPU chip and monitors all I/O systems (confirms ARM TrustZone).

  • Mentions background downloads and smaller initial sizes and play while downloading.

  • He mentions using BD and Hard drive combo for game reads and how to cut down load times.

  • Cerny also discusses the dedicated audio and video compression/decompression hardware for sharing videos and vita remote play.

  • The Android/iOS Playstation App lets you access all things Playstation. Store, game info, etc.

  • Regarding adding Vita remote play: “almost no overhead, without pain whatsoever, you will be able to Remote Play a game of PS4.”

  • So basically all PS4 games can be played on Vita EXCEPT those who use controller tracking or Move with the PS Eye.

  • They also talk about off-TV play.

  • Not all features will be there day one, but they will try to support everything they are planing going forward.

  • Also, OS is BSD, so they can make full use of multi-tasking.

  • Possible hint of PSOne discs being playable as the article was at one point corrected to distinguish between a lack of general CD support and a lack of music CD support, with some mention of ‘game compatibility’

  • OS is BSD-based to support rich multitasking; first time Sony is using that approach in a game machine

  • The idea of a secondary chip for low-power-state usage started to be talked about in 2009. European regulations around power consumption were part of the motivation.
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In order to be the central device, it has to be able to run the cable or satellite channels.

Maybe DVR, maybe access to on-demand content.

Even core gamers aren't playing all the time.

Otherwise, most of the time, the TV input is going to be on the TV set top box or DVR.
 
So it's looking more and more like a dual camera will be in every PS3.

Whatever excuse MS had for (possibly) going underpowered was just rendered moot.
 
Rangers said:
So it's looking more and more like a dual camera will be in every PS3.

Whatever excuse MS had for (possibly) going underpowered was just rendered moot.
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Only if you believe the reason for a lower TDP/BOM is kinect.

The addition of camera's is Sony not wanting to be left out of social features imo.
 
jayco said:
Stolen from Neogaf I know this has already been posted in a different form, but i think this gives a clearer image of what has been shown at the conference.
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I have questions for the following points

“Debug your PS4 code as you would your PC code”
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I guess that is referring to Dev use right?

PS4 controller: 1920×900 resolution on the analog touchpad
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Is it saying that the touchpad is actually a tiny screen?

Cam suggested uses: walkthrough vids, taunting in killcam, login, speech recognition, etc; possible PS4 Camera Magic – Sees the controller, you guys move, splitscreen moves to be on the right side
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What about 3D space and body tracking?
Walkhrough vids? Like showing yourself talking how to finish a game?

PS4 Mock-up: Heavy Rain choice with the number of your friends that chose each option.
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I have no idea what that meant
 
AlphaWolf said:
Only if you believe the reason for a lower TDP/BOM is kinect.
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The inclusion of Kinect in the BOM was one of the reasons for a lower power console, but not the only reason.

MS wanted an affordable console and one that they wouldn't have to bleed money subsidising.

Looks like Sony will be subsidizing the PS4 if they want to be price competitive with 720.
 
AlphaWolf said:
The addition of camera's is Sony not wanting to be left out of social features imo.
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I can't call it an addition this time, and it's definitely not reactionary (not wanting to be left out? really?) they started with this idea in 1999, and there's been a constant evolution until they now bundle it with the system. Sony pioneered the webcam on a game console, and they should have included it with the PS3 (the reason they didn't is left as an exercise for the reader). If you watch Mark Cerny's presentation, it's clear that the PS4 was designed with the camera in mind from the start, and that social features were at the core of his ideas.

I won't comment about Kinect, because this is the PS4 thread. (I know, sometimes it's hard to tell, but hopefully I managed)
 
Nesh said:
I guess that is referring to Dev use right?
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Yep, this quote came out of GDC along with the mentioning of the tool chain being integrated with VS 2010 and 2012.

Nesh said:
Is it saying that the touchpad is actually a tiny screen?
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No, they're referring to the sensitivity of the touchpad. If you were to view it as a screen, the individual pixels would make up each unique point that it can detect input and output a value for devs to use.

Nesh said:
I have no idea what that meant
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In Heavy Rain, there were numerous permanent choices. It would seem they're referring to being able to see, potentially in game, what choices you friends made at a given choice you're at or completed. Pretty interesting, IMO. Reminds me of the ME player choice data (which just came out for ME3, IIRC) except potentially in game or maybe on the "Live Area" of the game screen before launching.
 
MrFox said:
Sony pioneered the webcam on a game console..
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Actually that was Sega! It was always Sega. Everything was Sega. They did screens in pads and speakers in pads and portable to handheld connectivity and waggle controllers first too. And all with the Dreamcast.

DLC? Dreamcast. Retro games bought online? Dreamcast. Online gaming network? Dreamcast. VOIP and video chat? Dreamcast. Network portal with customised user "content" and "adverts"? Dreamcast. Single use online activation codes (for anti piracy in this case)? lol DC.

This is yet another generation based on picking bits off the carcass of the Dreamcast. Neither Sony nor MS can particularly claim the high ground when it comes to being pioneers, although they've both iterated successfully on ideas that others pioneered and made some really cool stuff.

I will stop now, before I copy more items from the list of "Dreamcast things" that I tattooed to my body using a pair of compasses and biro.
 
Xenus said:
There is also talk of the PS4 controller having your profile and possibly saved games on it. Which would be cool.
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Do you have a link ?


Shifty Geezer said:
No mention of PSMobile games on PS4.
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Kaz or Andrew House's team restricted it to mobile only when they renamed PS Suite to PS Mobile.



(((interference))) said:
The inclusion of Kinect in the BOM was one of the reasons for a lower power console, but not the only reason.

MS wanted an affordable console and one that they wouldn't have to bleed money subsidising.

Looks like Sony will be subsidizing the PS4 if they want to be price competitive with 720.
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Perhaps MS want to groom h/w partners. The h/w has to be sold for a profit for Samsung and Panasonic to be interested.
 
Instead of doing 10 separate small articles to increase the ad click-through rate, Ars has 1 nice compilation article. Has some good info and a bit more detail than some of the others.

patsu said:
Do you have a link ?
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I think people are reading too much into a profile being "attached" to a controller. I'm guessing what they're actually referring to is assigning a PSN profile to each controller for local MP games, the same manner some games handle it now. There would be no data on the actual controller, just a PSN profile attached to the controller number. That's just my assumption though.

Nesh said:
I have no idea what that meant
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A bit more clarification to my earlier point provided in the Ars article:

Sony also hopes that developers will integrate social features directly into traditionally single-player games. Norden gave an example of a Heavy Rain scene, where a decision between discussing something with your son or getting a snack was accompanied by a pop-up display showing how many of your friends chose each option
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Looks like they were talking about in-game feedback on Friend's choices. Nice.
 
MfA said:
USB 3.0 isn't cheap ... and at 2 Gb/s raw datarate, USB 2.0 hardly cuts it (even with MJPEG). If you would want to get the raw data across it's not clear to me at all that USB would be a good option.
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It should be cheaper than implementing a more expensive, say Firewire based solution. Would adding another Ethernet based PHY be cheaper? Coming up with a custom solution offering enough bandwidth for dual relatively high resolution cams + 4 audio streams?

AFAIK, at most they'd have to put in a USB root hub in the device if more than 2x USB 3.0 devices are needed. And that's assuming the Jaguar module isn't spec'd by Sony to have support for more than 2x USB 3.0 I/Os anyway.

Regards,
SB
 
Maybe it's less expensive to use a real USB 3.0, so they can put a mass-produced webcam chipsets in the pseye, and just make it a custom connector (add more power? audio?). I don't think they need anything fancier than this. If I can purchase a dual USB 3.0 PCIe card for $12 at monoprice, I doubt it's really expensive to implement.

I think the key is in the cost of the connector and the tranceiver/equalizer. For that, nothing beats USB 3.0. There isn't anything else that can provide the bandwidth necessary for a pair of 720p/60 at 12 bits per channel. It's already close to the usb3 max speed. If it works, why spend the money to make something from scratch? Maybe even have a standard webcam chip for each eye, with dual audio channels for each, and the connector would be a 6 contact custom thing for a pair of usb signals.
 
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If PSEye is subsidized, Sony may not want non-gamers to buy it for their general webcam needs. I believe they sell other webcams for $150. They may use elements from existing stacks but Sony has used proprietary ports on recent devices for whatever reasons.
 
Gradthrawn said:
I think people are reading too much into a profile being "attached" to a controller. I'm guessing what they're actually referring to is assigning a PSN profile to each controller for local MP games, the same manner some games handle it now. There would be no data on the actual controller, just a PSN profile attached to the controller number. That's just my assumption though.
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Yeah I think they are probably going a little overboard there though USB flash is cheap enough I could see them using something like for storage on the controller. The profile on the controller thing is pretty awesome in itself as it basically would allow you to carry your profile with you to a friends house rather then hacving to bother anything about signing in.
 
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