News & Rumours: Playstation 4/ Orbis *spin*

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Silent_Buddha said:
The cost wasn't only with consideration for the battery. :) The touchpad is going to add some cost. That speaker/microphone is going to add some cost. The LED illuminated panel will add some cost. The unannounced features would add cost. The extensive wishlist of features someone was hoping the controller would contain would add some cost. Etc.
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Yep - certainly true... It will certainly add cost, but I suspect a more accurate suggestion is that it would "reduce profit" on the controller rather than necessarily require a price rise.

e.g. AFAICT the price of a controller is mostly independent of the actual cost of making that controller:
- the price of a dual shock 3 was $55 at release.
- the price of a dual shock 3 ~5 years later, is still $55.
- an "unbranded" version sold through the same retail in 2013 is $20-$35.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the same price as the DS3 or e.g. +$10 if they think the xbox controller price is going to increase.
 
Hopefully.

The convex analog plus indented ring around the edge is a great idea. Still allows for precise manipulation via thumb rolling while having the edge there to prevent slippage.
 
dumbo11 said:
Yep - certainly true... It will certainly add cost, but I suspect a more accurate suggestion is that it would "reduce profit" on the controller rather than necessarily require a price rise.
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The problem here is that currently, Sony as a company, cannot afford to reduce profit margins significantly. For FY 2012 the games division should remain profitable, but only just barely. They cannot afford to have the game division become another division losing money.

So, above, someone mentioned moving to digital versus analog buttons. That, IMO, is a good compromise in order to cut costs in one area to allow for the introduction of features that may lure in purchasers who otherwise don't care or even know that the buttons are analog. On its own, it isn't likely to make up the cost differential, but Sony may also be cutting corners on other things in order to come up with a similar BOM.

Perhaps the Vita style D-pad has a lower BOM (I don't know if it does or doesn't), for example. Perhaps they'll use a slightly lower quality plastic. Perhaps they'll source the controller assembly from someone using lower labor costs.

Regards,
SB
 
Silent_Buddha said:
The problem here is that currently, Sony as a company, cannot afford to reduce profit margins significantly. For FY 2012 the games division should remain profitable, but only just barely. They cannot afford to have the game division become another division losing money.

So, above, someone mentioned moving to digital versus analog buttons. That, IMO, is a good compromise in order to cut costs in one area to allow for the introduction of features that may lure in purchasers who otherwise don't care or even know that the buttons are analog. On its own, it isn't likely to make up the cost differential, but Sony may also be cutting corners on other things in order to come up with a similar BOM.

Perhaps the Vita style D-pad has a lower BOM (I don't know if it does or doesn't), for example. Perhaps they'll use a slightly lower quality plastic. Perhaps they'll source the controller assembly from someone using lower labor costs.

Regards,
SB
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Breaking backwards compatibility on titles likely to be re-released on PSN is worth saving 50 cents per controller?
 
AlphaWolf said:
If you sell 70million consoles, the answer is yes. They could patch those titles affected.
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It doesn't seem logically compatible to me. Add move and touchpad functionality into the default controller but remove analog functionality from the face buttons?

I can see them doing a developer or title survey and seeing low utilization, but I'm highly skeptical of the rumor.
 
Seeing the new controller I felt like making a quick survey, (hope mods don't mind, if they do, just delete this) but how many people actually prefer nintendo's octagon shaped borders around the analog stick to facilitate pointing at the cardinal directions? I really like that feature, but for some reason sony and ms and everybody else seems to dismiss it.
 
Vita's dpad is superior to the home console ones. It feels high quality and "clicky". If it is cheaper, then it's truly the best case scenario. ^_^

The rumor is from VGleaks I think.

It's a pity most games don't use the pressure sensitive buttons. e.g., Titles like Demon's Souls use 2 different buttons for strong and weak attacks.

We'll see if the rumor is true. It wouldn't surprise me if it's a few dollars more expensive because it may have to power headset as well.


milk said:
Seeing the new controller I felt like making a quick survey, (hope mods don't mind, if they do, just delete this) but how many people actually prefer nintendo's octagon shaped borders around the analog stick to facilitate pointing at the cardinal directions? I really like that feature, but for some reason sony and ms and everybody else seems to dismiss it.
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No preference for me. Adapting between console pads is easy. It's more difficult to adjust between different games, or between Vita and the home consoles.
 
milk said:
Seeing the new controller I felt like making a quick survey, (hope mods don't mind, if they do, just delete this) but how many people actually prefer nintendo's octagon shaped borders around the analog stick to facilitate pointing at the cardinal directions? I really like that feature, but for some reason sony and ms and everybody else seems to dismiss it.
Click to expand...

The philosophy of an analog stick is a non-discrete, continuous input method that relies directly on visual feedback. If you introduce a discrete qualification to an analog stick, it becomes like another button. If a developer needed me to point exactly that direction, either they'd have me press the d-pad, introduce some slop, or find another way around it. I prefer the paradigm sony and ms have going.
 
anexanhume said:
Breaking backwards compatibility on titles likely to be re-released on PSN is worth saving 50 cents per controller?
Click to expand...

It could be. Let's put that hand waving 50 cents (it could be less it could be more) into perspective.

Since we're using a fictitious 50 cents figure, I'm also not going to be too concerned with absolutely accuracy of numbers.

But for FY 2012 (Q1 through Q3) Sony have sold a combined 13.1 million PS2s and PS3s. Yes, I'm not going to bother trying to separate out the PS2 just like I'm not going to try to calculate how many stand alone DS3 controllers were sold. At a 50 cents savings that's 6.55 million USD.

In those same 9 months, Sony posted a relatively paltry 38 million USD profit for the entire games division. 6.55 million represents approximately 17.2% of that. Using the fictitious 50 cents savings, they could have potentially made 44.55 million USD or more by saving 50 cents on each controller sold.

If Sony's games division was having a healthy level of ROI, lets say 500+ million USD during those same 9 months (which include the Holiday season), then a savings of 6.55 million USD isn't going to have a significant impact. When you're only posting a profit of 38 million USD however, that 6.55 million becomes pretty significant.

But that's the problem. Sony's business is far from healthy at the moment. It's constantly teetering between profitability and non-profitability. Negative operating income for FY2011. Positive for 2010 and 2009. Negative again for 2008. They are forecasting FY 2012 as having a small profit, and it should happen, but there's no guarantee.

It's not an environment for taking large risks. And hence we see a very conservative console design with a large focus on keeping BOM costs under control while trying to appeal to as many people as possible. It's certainly going to be the case with the controllers as well.

Regards,
SB
 
anexanhume said:
It doesn't seem logically compatible to me. Add move and touchpad functionality into the default controller but remove analog functionality from the face buttons?

I can see them doing a developer or title survey and seeing low utilization, but I'm highly skeptical of the rumor.
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Erm? It's exactly what MS did from the Xbox to the 360. Despite the fact that the 360 specifically had backwards compatibility, and not having the analog buttons broke at least one popular game.
 
I am not too worried about DS4 price. They should focus on innovating games, and keeping their install base satisfied.
 
Silent_Buddha said:
It could be. Let's put that hand waving 50 cents (it could be less it could be more) into perspective.

Since we're using a fictitious 50 cents figure, I'm also not going to be too concerned with absolutely accuracy of numbers.

But for FY 2012 (Q1 through Q3) Sony have sold a combined 13.1 million PS2s and PS3s. Yes, I'm not going to bother trying to separate out the PS2 just like I'm not going to try to calculate how many stand alone DS3 controllers were sold. At a 50 cents savings that's 6.55 million USD.

In those same 9 months, Sony posted a relatively paltry 38 million USD profit for the entire games division. 6.55 million represents approximately 17.2% of that. Using the fictitious 50 cents savings, they could have potentially made 44.55 million USD or more by saving 50 cents on each controller sold.

If Sony's games division was having a healthy level of ROI, lets say 500+ million USD during those same 9 months (which include the Holiday season), then a savings of 6.55 million USD isn't going to have a significant impact. When you're only posting a profit of 38 million USD however, that 6.55 million becomes pretty significant.

But that's the problem. Sony's business is far from healthy at the moment. It's constantly teetering between profitability and non-profitability. Negative operating income for FY2011. Positive for 2010 and 2009. Negative again for 2008. They are forecasting FY 2012 as having a small profit, and it should happen, but there's no guarantee.

It's not an environment for taking large risks. And hence we see a very conservative console design with a large focus on keeping BOM costs under control while trying to appeal to as many people as possible. It's certainly going to be the case with the controllers as well.

Regards,
SB
Click to expand...

That $38 million in profit likely includes whatever R&D costs are being spent on the PS4. Granted, it's not going to be PS3 levels ($400 million for the Cell Broadband Engine alone), but it's not going to be zero either.
 
patsu said:
Vita's dpad is superior to the home console ones. It feels high quality and "clicky". If it is cheaper, then it's truly the best case scenario. ^_^

The rumor is from VGleaks I think.

It's a pity most games don't use the pressure sensitive buttons. e.g., Titles like Demon's Souls use 2 different buttons for strong and weak attacks.

We'll see if the rumor is true. It wouldn't surprise me if it's a few dollars more expensive because it may have to power headset as well.

No preference for me. Adapting between console pads is easy. It's more difficult to adjust between different games, or between Vita and the home consoles.
Click to expand...

VG leaks actually lists all buttons as digital, R2 & L2 included, then immediately below it lists R2 & L2 as analog buttons.
They don't seem to have a clear idea of the DS 4.
 
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