Ah yes, voice. The ones I used were done from the network, I wonder how much would be required locally.
- Status
They obviously knew about Kinect and they did the numbers and decided it wasn't something they either could do or should do in order to win the next war.
And i can see why, for me it's like the wii motion controllers, it's a trick you can't repeat. It will take a very very special game to convince me otherwise. Now, it might be that the xbox one ends up being so cool to control with my voice and gestures I wish that my ps4 could do the same. But I doubt it. But if it does then I will buy an eye and praise Sony for reserving enough ram. Until then I am in the focus on games camp.
@Shifty
I would add these to the always available column allowing developers to take advantage of a social framework application they can use to provide realtime data and updates in game.
*Cross game chat.(and teamspeak/ventrillo)
*Social networking.
I would also like live control and direction options between players.
The option to record directly to a thumbdrive would be an acceptable tradeoff for losing 10 minutes of always recorded video. It would free up a lot of ram if that is what they are using for the video recording.
@TrungGap Firefox 23 is not a memory hog. I have 20 pages open and it uses under .5gb.
I would add these to the always available column allowing developers to take advantage of a social framework application they can use to provide realtime data and updates in game.
*Cross game chat.(and teamspeak/ventrillo)
*Social networking.
I would also like live control and direction options between players.
The option to record directly to a thumbdrive would be an acceptable tradeoff for losing 10 minutes of always recorded video. It would free up a lot of ram if that is what they are using for the video recording.
@TrungGap Firefox 23 is not a memory hog. I have 20 pages open and it uses under .5gb.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
Nobody said all fifteen minutes would need to be in RAM; a minute or two would probably suffice. Editing video using a proxy source (like SD resolution video) does not solve the problem, that would require the PS4 having to maintain two 15 minute video streams, one in HD which is used for the actual production and one in SD which is used only for the editing. The share application will still need a lump of RAM for cutting and pasting and encoding of the final cut of the HD video for upload.
You can edit HiDef video on lesser hardware where you stream it from a hard drive. We are talking buffers in seconds and nothing more. If Sony gets help from it's Video Vegas guys editing it should be the least of their problems. Capture demands more, lets pretend it's fairly high 15mbit video, that is 2MB pr second. The harddrive should be able to write some 50MB pr second, lets be conservative and say 25MB. If we buffer a healthy 120MB then we have a full one minute video and the hard drive should have no problem flushing that out in seconds.
Professional video editing used to be the pinnacle of computer hardware, the I/O system was state of the art SCSI systems Today a SATA drive is enough and in the case of the PS4 it's fairly heavy compressed video with low bitrates making it even easier on the I/O.
This is usually done in-line directly from the HDD. No need for much more than the number of frames between i-frames or two, no matter how long the segment is, and this is like half a second or one second.
I have to say, don't underestimate proxies. Proxies are like bow-ties. Proxies are cool.
Actually sending the stream directly to cloud where cutting would happen might be a good way.
This would reduce memory usage on client ps4 and there would be no limit on actual tools on what they could do.
Cloud based tools and apps might be one of the 'big' things we will see on these new machines.
This would easily allow fast app switch and such as well.
hesido
Regular
Cutting and pasting an encoded video feed, unless you have to re-encode due to a modification to the video, is as simple as copying the stream to another file with appropriate changes to the container file, and with appropriate buffers, even creating a new file is not necessary for streaming the cut video to the servers (and PS4 with its hardware encode wouldn't fare too shabby even for a re-encode.)
Youtube's cloud editor is quite nice but here we have a beast of a machine that can pretty much do a lot of video-processing on its own. No need for Sony to spend for computing cycles to have that run on the cloud, IMHO. I understand the desire to fast-app switch, but I don't think Sony would increase its costs with that approach. If anyone needs complex video editing with special fx, I don't think they'd have to right to moan because they have to quite their game to do that.
Is it possible that some RAM will be used as some sort of cache to the HDD?
Based on what Sony has said, the following can happen in the background when playing that involves reading/writing from the HDD:
- 15 min recording of gameplay
- Background downloading/updates
- Background writing of gamedata from DB/PSN to HDD
- Background reading of gamedata from HDD
So in worst case all 4 things happen at the same time and in my opinion that would put any traditional HDD to the ground in terms of speed.
Alot of reading and writing at the same time.
This wont happen all the time but it can happen and the last thing you want is that disc is going slow and all the sudden a loading screen pops up when trying to edit the PVR recording since the disc is trying to read game data and write download data at the same time.
Based on what Sony has said, the following can happen in the background when playing that involves reading/writing from the HDD:
- 15 min recording of gameplay
- Background downloading/updates
- Background writing of gamedata from DB/PSN to HDD
- Background reading of gamedata from HDD
So in worst case all 4 things happen at the same time and in my opinion that would put any traditional HDD to the ground in terms of speed.
Alot of reading and writing at the same time.
This wont happen all the time but it can happen and the last thing you want is that disc is going slow and all the sudden a loading screen pops up when trying to edit the PVR recording since the disc is trying to read game data and write download data at the same time.
Yep.
Sure, but still - those are data storage task that needs to bee written to some place and read from some place.
Yes there will be hardware for encode/decode and chip for background tasks but the data needs to be stored on the HDD or in the RAM.
Makes sense to use a specific amount of RAM as a buffert for the HDD.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
I have no problem with using a proxy source to edit, it's fine for most things. We don't know if this is how it works.
On my 20mbit DSL connection, I get about 2 megabytes/sec down and about 80kb/sec up. I'd much rather leave the cloud out of it and only use my poor upstream for things that need it!
Of the listed items 2 things have priority, the rest can just "wait". Gameplay recording which by all accounts should be a maximum of writing 2MB pr sec and very very easy to buffer. And reading game data from the hard drive which is the most time critical. It should by no means be a problem.
May I ask what specific amount do you have in mind?
He probably means specific applications would have their own small buffers in RAM. IE: 64MB for video recording, 16MB for background downloads and so on.
Specific = A number that Sony has set in the SDK
The X amount is for me unknown, but as Brad Grenz said - Buffert for background tasks to ease up the load from the HDD.
All I am saying is that the rumors about the beefy 3GB reserved RAM makes sense if you want to give the player a fluent gaming experience from day one and with alot of stuff going around in the background in terms of data read/write.
Having many things going on is often the reason why HDD based computers cripple before SSD computers.
Better to start of with 3GB reserved and then spend 1 year looking on what functions to add/enhance and then slim down instead of having to slim down to add functions (like the case with the PS3).
Yeah that is one way to do things but for now 3Gb is not really explainable...with the info we have I mean.
Last edited by a moderator:
Maybe not, I don't know but at the same time I see high-end games on high-end PCs doing fine with 2GB VRAM on a computer with Windows 7 and "only" 4GB DDR3
So for first gen games I don't see any problems with "only" 5GB for games.
It feels like this is the first generation where the amount of RAM does not seem to be any issue at all even long term. Everybody knows that for most people the cheap 8GB/16GB DDR3 is mostly overkill and High-end cards carry at best 3-4GB VRAM (TITAN is overkill)
When PS3 and 360 launched they both had only 512MB which was lower than the amount of a good gaming computer in terms of VRAM and OS RAM.
So I have trurst in Sony that the 3GB resereved in the SDK has a logical meaning.
- Status