New Technical Information About RSX???...But In Japanese

nothing that hasn't been known for montbs, but still highly disappointing for this uber-console that's meant to last at least 6 years before its successor the PS4 arrives.

no mention of vertex shaders ?

the downgrades seen in many PS3 titles can be blamed on having a GPU that is well below full NV47 spec. I don't see how there could be any other explaination.
 
I have not seen many downgrades in PS3 titles. For example, there are many titles that are constantly improving. Resistance, Heavenly Sword, and Motorstorm are just a few. If anything, game titles are improving! Also, remember that Lair is running at full 1080P and already looks great and is only 35% of the way done. They are not even at the stage where they will be adding graphical polish!

The RSX might have fewer ROPS than the N47 and half the BUS size to it's GDDR3 RAM. However, if you take into account all the tweaks such as larger post transform cache, vertex cache, and certainly other things we don't even know about it will end up being just as powerful. If anything, I'm certain when you factor in how much the CELL can help with vertex work over the FLEXIO developers are glad they have the PS3 to work with.

I just wish we could get the FULL technical information about the RSX.
 
I can't see what disapointing in the rsx.
It still a big peace of silicon, and a very good piece of hardware.
Both ms and sony have a silicon budget and have to set the specs at some time.
Sony nv47 is a ***g piece of hardware, good enought to say least, both sony and ms nothing more than a 128bit bus, nor sony nor ms could wait the gddr4 ram to make the most of theses buses.
But every body is already complainig because sony is late...
Some expectation are too hight xbox and ps3 are greatpiece of hardware at this time.

And I think some feel ps3 is downgrade because they were expecting the ps3 to crush the 360 graphic wize.
It can happen but the sign are still not here.
Sony get what it deserve in someway, show amazing cgi stuff, now they have a great system and some person feel betrayed... remind me a song...i just can't get enought...lol
 
why is a quote from a japanese website being more acurate then an american /english one?
does it sound more authentic this way ? more believable or acurate?
this link is meaning jack shit to be honest :???:
 
babcat said:
I have not seen many downgrades in PS3 titles..
Click to expand...

i doubt you would see a actual graphical difference in first generation titles due to a 10% decrease in clockspeed

further, this downgrade supposedly happend before E3 06, atleast thats what the original source says.
 
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babcat said:
Also, remember that Lair is running at full 1080P and already looks great and is only 35% of the way done.
Click to expand...
Um, it's meant to be a launch game is it not? I kind of doubt it's only 35% done if that's the case, it'd be pretty impossible to finish it in time. If it's REALLY only 35% done, it'll be a 2008 title for sure, and that might be optimistic considering how long they've been working on it! :p
 
Megadrive1988 said:
nothing that hasn't been known for montbs, but still highly disappointing for this uber-console that's meant to last at least 6 years before its successor the PS4 arrives.

no mention of vertex shaders ?

the downgrades seen in many PS3 titles can be blamed on having a GPU that is well below full NV47 spec. I don't see how there could be any other explaination.
Click to expand...

downgrades in PS3 titles? You lost me here, games like Heavenly Sword, Motor Storm, Fall of Man etc.. look better than before.

I honnestly can't see how a 50mhz downgrade can cause any problem. And correct me If i'm wrong but, don't stuff like 8 ROP and 128 bit bus have been known for quiet a while now? And is nothing new?
 
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Guden Oden said:
Um, it's meant to be a launch game is it not? I kind of doubt it's only 35% done if that's the case, it'd be pretty impossible to finish it in time. If it's REALLY only 35% done, it'll be a 2008 title for sure, and that might be optimistic considering how long they've been working on it! :p
Click to expand...

Spring 2007 according to Lair director Julian Eggebrecht, let's not be facetious.
 
hey69 said:
why is a quote from a japanese website being more acurate then an american /english one?
does it sound more authentic this way ? more believable or acurate?
this link is meaning jack shit to be honest :???:
Click to expand...

It's not that Watch Impress is *always* right or anything, it's that it's serious about gaming and consoles - and their seriousness extends to understanding technology. For better or for worse, Western gaming news sites are utterly inept at communicating hardware to their readership - and frankly I think part of it is just because individuals on their staffs just have absolutely zero idea what they're doing or seeing when they see tech specs - which is how a site like the Inquirer can keep more on top of console specs than a site like Gamespot.

It's ridiculous....

Anyway, it doesn't matter if this particular article of Watch Impress' is taken seriously or not (the rumor is true either way), but overall Watch Impress is definitely a AAA site for gaming info, and most translations of note One does for us often originate there.

@Megadrive: C'mon man, it's not that bad. ;)
 
It is, to a certain extent, Xb! No that gamers care : Technical jargon dissipates after the launching storm to be replaced by titles achievements..However, being on a technical forum, I can't feel but a bit disappointed. Sure the PS3 seems to have incredible potential...but man has Sony initiated a FIRST by incorporating a weaker GPU one year after the competition hit! I've never heard of such a case! :D
 
The site says that RSX has 8 vertex shaders and 24 pixel shaders. I normally don't question that site's accuracy, but the 8/24 configuration seems to conflict with the 384 FLOPS/cycle rating of RSX. It's 728 FLOPS/cycle for 7800 (I had my doubts about that 700+ figure but Tom's Hardware and other sites say it is indeed 728 FLOPS/cycle for 7800).

(look at the table where the flops/clock is listed)

http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/06/22/24_pipelines_of_power/page3.html


http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=150&type=expert&pid=3
 
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Lycan said:
It is, to a certain extent, Xb! No that gamers care : Technical jargon dissipates after the launching storm to be replaced by titles achievements..However, being on a technical forum, I can't feel but a bit disappointed. Sure the PS3 seems to have incredible potential...but man has Sony initiated a FIRST by incorporating a weaker GPU one year after the competition hit! I've never heard of such a case! :D
Click to expand...

Hmmm.... well you're about to launch a 'which GPU is better' discussion, which I think we should leave alone! :p

RSX has at least certain advantages over Xenos - and vice versa - can we agree to leave it at that? :)

Hey and I am *pure* techy when it comes to this stuff... you won't hear me taking that 'real gamers' line! To the point where after launch sans new PS3 technical info and homebrewing communities and such, when I'm not actually playing the games I certainly won't be talking about them; I'll be talking about PS4 and XBox 720 info! (slow though it will be to come)

RSX is a 'disappointment' in a lot of ways technically; but that's only because we want... and frankly expect... the exotic in our consoles. But RSX is high on functionality, and we have to give it at least that. PS3 is not *crippled* due to RSX's presence by any means; it is simply not the GPU equivelent of the Cell, and that is where it fails us tech diehards. This 550 to 500 downgrade... I mean it's a little surprising considering fab process technology and the year we live in, but it's no big deal; the reasons for the decision are obvious enough, and their level of impact not all that tremendous.

And the reasons they went with a GPU like RSX in the first place are plain to see and logical as well, so how can we disparage the outcome? They fell short on their pursuit of the super-exotic on the GPU front, so let's just be glad they picked up the ball and put a very capable chip in there in spite of their stumbles.

I think what Cell achieves later on in it's life will allow us tech-fans to more than forgive Sony's inclusion of such a 'plain' GPU. :cool:
 
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xbdestroya,

Could you back to those individuals who gave you the information about the 500MHz downgrade and see what other information they can provide you at this time. If they were not afraid to anonymously contribute that nugget of information perhaps they could give you the rest of the story as well. If it's truly not that different from what we already know (as some of you claim and is probably the truth except for various tweaks) then it would not really be anything stunning for them to reveal (anonymously).

Could you please go back and check to see if they can provide you with anything more?
 
hey69 said:
why is a quote from a japanese website being more acurate then an american /english one?
does it sound more authentic this way ? more believable or acurate?
this link is meaning jack shit to be honest :???:
Click to expand...

Apart from the fact that GameWatch is a rather good source on the matter of HW questions - as xbd already mentioned -, being a Japanese gaming web-site has its advantage: Better and more easy access to Japanese developers (HW and SW) is certainly one of them. Couple that tidbit with the post of DeanA yesterday and I'd say there's evidence that downgrade indeed occured.
 
babcat said:
xbdestroya,

Could you back to those individuals who gave you the information about the 500MHz downgrade and see what other information they can provide you at this time. If they were not afraid to anonymously contribute that nugget of information perhaps they could give you the rest of the story as well. If it's truly not that different from what we already know (as some of you claim and is probably the truth except for various tweaks) then it would not really be anything stunning for them to reveal (anonymously).

Could you please go back and check to see if they can provide you with anything more?
Click to expand...

I need to clarify this whole thing, because I want the context of all this to be understood. It's not that I have 'sources' that randomly give me information, it's that I have good relationships with a couple of knowledgable people. When I heard the rumor about a 500MHz downgrade (before the Inquirer story broke), I asked several of these relations to confirm it for the sake of my own personal knowledge, and they each did in their own way. After the story broke, I decided to take a position of confirmation on it because: a) I wasn't under NDA and thus could address it, and b) I felt even though it was a negative for Sony, it was better for Sony if the fact was addressed head on rather than left to linger for another day.

Like - isn't it so much better that this Watch Impress article comes out after TGS and we already knew about this? Rather than taking us by surprise and souring an otherwise great TGS?

I used to be in marketing, and so frankly I have opinions on how public relations should be handled. Sony has been inept in my opinion in addressing rumors and FUD, so I thought I'd help them out on that front in this one instance.

As far as me asking about RSX secrets of these individuals, that's just not my style, so I have to be upfront when I say that I'm simply not going to do it. I don't like to harrass people I've formed a relationship with for information when it's a matter as important as their livlihood, and I think that's just basic respect for friendship.
 
Humpsfinsgack,

I did not even remember seeing that post by DeanA.

DeanA,

If you can share any additional information about *how* those clocks are off that would be great. If you cannot then that's fine too.
 
Kryton said:
For 7800GTX:Triangle Fill Rate 860M tri/s

Fill Rate 6880M


For RSX:

Triangle Fill Rate 1000M

tri/sFill Rate 4000M
Click to expand...
New news to me since it was discussed before that the triangle fill rate would be a lot less than the X360...
 
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Ostepop said:
further, this downgrade supposedly happend before E3 06, atleast thats what the original source says.
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised at all if this turns out to be true.

Archgamer said:
So the only changes to the specs are the core clock speed at 500Mhz and the video memory at 650MHz? That's nothing I should be worried about.
Click to expand...

Dude. The day you're starting to get worried over the specs of a game machine give me call. I'll buy you a beer. ;)
 
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