New Ken Kutaragi interview (1) @ PC Watch

[Robert.L]

Yeah I don't think he'd be foolish enough to "upgrade" the game requirements of ps3 before jumping to ps4. Also the sentiment that ps3 will have a 10 year lifespan is a bit garbage in the argument for why it should be acceptable to charge more for the unit, because as everyone here knows the likelyhood that a ps3 that was bought on launch day and lasts for 10 years is a bit rediculous.[/QUOTE]

yes just like my playstation ...oh wait it did.

 

[Urian]

I see a good strategy in this strategy from Sony.

1. A lot of people wants a MediaCenter computer like a MacMini or any overpriced crap for be a complement of their main computer and we know that these computers are more expansive than PS3 and less powerful than them.

2. Linux needs a powerful and popular closed architecture for be the perfect OS, NextStep has evolved a lot being OS X thanks the closed "expandable" architecture of the Apple computers. Now imagine all this advantage on Linux with distros that are designed around the PS3 and 100% reliable.

3. In 2005 6.5 milions of MediaCenter computers were sold (the source is Bill Gates keynote in CES) and they are more expansive than PS3. Why the people think that PS3 is going to be a failure if is sold like a computer when the Sony Vaio line is considered to be the PC MacBook line?

The only negative part that I see is that Sony has said "We are tired of humiliating Microsoft and Nintendo in console sales, now we are going to fight with the PC".

 

[Dave Baumann]

My god are you stupid person.

I think you need to check a whole lot of things...

 

[rabidrabbit]

oopsie, it's like somebody calling his daddy a stupid person.
Not-a-wise-move

 

[Titanio]

good question - anyone have an inside scoop/link?

No inside info, but it may not be coincidence that just a few of weeks earlier, a former SCEA exec returned and basically was given the run of SCEA's entire marketing operation..

It's been suggested she left because she may have felt snubbed and passed over for the roles given to him. They were both at SCEA at the launch of the original Playstation, but he subsequently left to go to THQ at some point, whereas she stuck with the company. So I guess it'd be kinda understandable if she felt miffed at that.

 

[thenefariousone]

It's far from irrelevent. PS3 Linux will be locked down tight, as they have very little to gain from the doors being blown off the platform. They make a lot of money based on the way things are right now, and homebrew software (see the PSP) creates more headaches for them than anything else.

Historically, Sony doesn't open up any platform, even when it's in their best interest to do so. Linux on the ps3 will be like the ps2 linux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS2_Linux. You'll have a little sandbox to play in, but you're not allowed to touch any of the big stuff. The Blueray drive is almost certain to be off limits to prevent any bootloader programs for example.

Anyone who wants to publish indie games, will likely have to go through their xbox live-clone environment.

This stuff is just hype. They'll be saying it a lot, and saying it often - as it increases the perceived value of their console. As gamingsteve put it, "a $600 video game console sounds very expensive, but a $600 computer doesn't sound so bad."

Irrelevent. If Sony allows unsigned code to run, they can't stop any arbitrary Linux app from being ported. Even if Sony creates a program for people to publish signed apps for a small fee (as opposed to full fledged games), it would be succeptable to homebrew. There's simply no way Sony can vet all code.

Now, there have been rumors of Sony opening up the PS3 platform, and if this is true in anyw ay, even cheap publishing, it will blow the doors off the platform. Even an innocuous program like a Tetris clone, if Sony signs and publishes it, could be have a purposeful bug inserted to allow it to be used as a bootloader for unsigned homebrew code.

In short, if Sony takes any course other than keeping the platform closed to only 1st and 3rd party developers, they are effectively opening it up.

As for homebrew being small but vocal, it's only small because the only way to play homebrew is through technically arcane procedures or worse, getting your hardware modified. That would all change if installation is as simple as point and click and download.

 

[thenefariousone]

Interesting points. Two things though:

1. MediaCenter computers have the ability to record and play back tv programs. Some even have the option to burn recorded programs on dvd.

Those are the most important functions a MediaCenter computers have, and PS3's don't have that functionality built in.


2. The needs of Linux and the needs of Sony are far from the same thing. The example you mentioned below uses BSD not Linux. In addition, all linux distros will never be designed around any one set of hardware.

The chance of that happening is the same as the chance that Sony will let you install different linux distros on the ps3... zero.

I see a good strategy in this strategy from Sony.

1. A lot of people wants a MediaCenter computer like a MacMini or any overpriced crap for be a complement of their main computer and we know that these computers are more expansive than PS3 and less powerful than them.

2. Linux needs a powerful and popular closed architecture for be the perfect OS, NextStep has evolved a lot being OS X thanks the closed "expandable" architecture of the Apple computers. Now imagine all this advantage on Linux with distros that are designed around the PS3 and 100% reliable.

3. In 2005 6.5 milions of MediaCenter computers were sold (the source is Bill Gates keynote in CES) and they are more expansive than PS3. Why the people think that PS3 is going to be a failure if is sold like a computer when the Sony Vaio line is considered to be the PC MacBook line?

The only negative part that I see is that Sony has said "We are tired of humiliating Microsoft and Nintendo in console sales, now we are going to fight with the PC".

 

[DemoCoder]

Historically, Sony doesn't open up any platform, even when it's in their best interest to do so. Linux on the ps3 will be like the ps2 linux http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS2_Linux.

It PS3 Linux has the same functionality as PS2 Linux, it will be more than powerful enough to run apps like XMAME, and run Mozilla, ThunderBird, Open Office, and other applications. Locking down BR drive is pointless. PS2Linux gave you ethernet and HDD access which is more than sufficient for indie titles. Even restricting OpenGL access and limiting one to pure X11, or 2D framebuffer would provide more than enough for enjoyable indie software.

And, the major difference between PS2 Linux and PS3Linux would presumably be that PS3Linux comes built in, thus yielding a market of millions right off the bat.


(anti-Sony diatribe deleted)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The Blueray drive is almost certain to be off limits to prevent any bootloader programs for example.

As it should be, as there's no need to access it. As long as you can write your own software on Cell, access RSX, and access the expansion ports (USB), it's as much as any indie dev needs. Anyone wanting to get down to the metal is likely just a hacker! If you really want to go down to that level, produce a higher-level software application to show you know PS3 and are good at coding, and get a job for a PS3 developer.

Anyone who wants to publish indie games, will likely have to go through their xbox live-clone environment.

I see nothing wrong with that particulary. You'll still have the option of things like Flash games on websites for freebies. If you want to make money from your efforts and Sony want to protect their software library to keep a minimum quality level based on their criteria, selling it over PS's network is a sensible method.

 

[Megadrive1988]

responding to questions asked on the first page of this thread about increased spec'ed PS3s in the future, I doubt it will happen, other than larger harddrives.

increased RAM-memory, faster/more powerful CPUs and GPUs, will not happen within the PS3 platform.

Ken says alot of things that don't actually happen.

next time we get a PlayStation with MORE than 512 MB of RAM, a better/faster CPU, GPU, etc it will be called PlayStation4.

PS4 will arrive between 2011 (soonest, 5 yrs after PS3)
and
2013 (latest, 7 yrs after PS3)

 

[SPM]

Interesting points. Two things though:

1. MediaCenter computers have the ability to record and play back tv programs. Some even have the option to burn recorded programs on dvd.

Those are the most important functions a MediaCenter computers have, and PS3's don't have that functionality built in.

Maybe there will be a media center version later with a bigger hard drive and DVD/Bluray burning as KK was hinting. Maybe the multi-media aspect is what the configurability is about rather than the games aspect which has to remain fixed. The same would be true of a VCR function allowing PS3 to record TV onto hard drive.

2. The needs of Linux and the needs of Sony are far from the same thing. The example you mentioned below uses BSD not Linux. In addition, all linux distros will never be designed around any one set of hardware.

Who needs it to be? Linux can be and is ported to just about every CPU architecture in existance, and Sony can maintain it's own version if required just as Apple maintains it's own modified version of BSD. The key thing about open source operating systems like Linux and BSD Unix is that they can be easily modified and customised to suit. IBM decided to adopt Linux as it's core OS on all platforms after a team in it's mainframe division managed to port Linux to IBM's big iron z-series mainframes within just 2 weeks working in their spare time.

The chance of that happening is the same as the chance that Sony will let you install different linux distros on the ps3... zero.

Why? The PS3 OS is a hypervisor, and uses an SPE for DRM. This means that Linux will be just another application and can be prevented from accessing underlying hardware directly - the Linux distros will see virtual hardware like Windows running on VMWare does. The beauty of Cell (for Sony at least) is that Sony can if they wish allow any OS to run, and still not give up their lock on the hardware or the bootstrap. Think of Linux as just another game. Sony can prevent games being developed under Linux, by simply slowing the OpenGL drivers allowing access to the virtual hardware - not enough to cripple it, but enough to persuade serious games developers to run games natively. In any case why would a games developer waste RAM space by running a game on top of Linux?

 

[SPM]

next time we get a PlayStation with MORE than 512 MB of RAM, a better/faster CPU, GPU, etc it will be called PlayStation4.

PS4 will arrive between 2011 (soonest, 5 yrs after PS3)
and
2013 (latest, 7 yrs after PS3)

Actually it may be sooner than for the last gen consoles. The reason is that due to the nature of Cell, PS4 will be pretty much like PS3 - maybe 4 Cell chips and a quad RSX with 1MB XDR and 1MB GDDR in total, maybe keeping the same clock speeds and operating on very low power. It can be 100% compatible with PS3 since it is basically 4 PS3s.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Actually it may be sooner than for the last gen consoles. The reason is that due to the nature of Cell, PS4 will be pretty much like PS3 - maybe 4 Cell chips and a quad RSX with 1MB XDR and 1MB GDDR in total, maybe keeping the same clock speeds and operating on very low power. It can be 100% compatible with PS3 since it is basically 4 PS3s.

Well, it would have to be sooner if you think they're going to be using quad RSX and 4 cell chips.

Five years ago, a top of the line gaming rig was loaded with a GeForce3, 256MB PC800 RDRAM, a 30GB HDD, a PIV running at 2Ghz, and was running DirectX 8.

I don't think it's too over reaching to say that five years from now, 4 Cell chips, a quad RSX and 2MB of RAM aren't going to come close to be cutting edge.

 

[PSman]

Got a question, does this mean that Sony will release different version of the PS3 EVERY year?

http://www.gamersreports.com/news/2837/

 

[Megadrive1988]

quad RSX or 4x RSX performance would be horribly outdated feature-wise and underpowered for PS4.


PS4 will probably use an NV6x or NV7x GPU (whereas PS3 RSX is NV4x).

perhaps a more custom joint effort between SCEI and Nvidia, since there was very little time to develop the Nvidia PS3 GPU since Nvidia was only on-board with PS3 since like 2003, many years after PS3 R&D got underway. this time, Nvidia-SCEI have at least 5 years of working together (2005/06 -------> 2010/11) on a GPU that will be in a PS4 launching around 2012.

 

[Trawler]

I wonder if Sony will allow publishers to release titles that require a PS3 with more RAM/HD space than the release model further down the track?

Could put a lot of people off if that's the case.

 

[thenefariousone]

That would only lead them in to a battle on two fronts:

1. Fighting against a myriad of future single purpose devices that will do the multi-media job better for a cheaper price.

2. Fighting against the xbox360 + vista/ newer versions of media centre edition pc combo.

The former promises a better overall experience, and the later offers way more flexibility than what you are suggesting.

Maybe there will be a media center version later with a bigger hard drive and DVD/Bluray burning as KK was hinting. Maybe the multi-media aspect is what the configurability is about rather than the games aspect which has to remain fixed. The same would be true of a VCR function allowing PS3 to record TV onto hard drive.

There's no reason to believe that Sony will do any of that. No matter how logical or easy it would be. It's just not how they operate. Look how long it took them to allow the mp3 format on walkmans. Unless it's their own "Sony Linux" - it's not going on that box.

Who needs it to be? Linux can be and is ported to just about every CPU architecture in existance, and Sony can maintain it's own version if required just as Apple maintains it's own modified version of BSD. The key thing about open source operating systems like Linux and BSD Unix is that they can be easily modified and customised to suit. IBM decided to adopt Linux as it's core OS on all platforms after a team in it's mainframe division managed to port Linux to IBM's big iron z-series mainframes within just 2 weeks working in their spare time.


Why? The PS3 OS is a hypervisor, and uses an SPE for DRM. This means that Linux will be just another application and can be prevented from accessing underlying hardware directly - the Linux distros will see virtual hardware like Windows running on VMWare does. The beauty of Cell (for Sony at least) is that Sony can if they wish allow any OS to run, and still not give up their lock on the hardware or the bootstrap. Think of Linux as just another game. Sony can prevent games being developed under Linux, by simply slowing the OpenGL drivers allowing access to the virtual hardware - not enough to cripple it, but enough to persuade serious games developers to run games natively. In any case why would a games developer waste RAM space by running a game on top of Linux?

 

[sonyps35]

Here's something I've thought about, bound to be controversial. Do you fire Ken Kutaragi?

I suppose, if PS3 goes down in flames, maybe it's a stupid question because it's inevitable, Ken would probably be gone then. But I have thought about asking this question after several debacles, such as Sony's 06 E3.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

Uh... Huh?

Why would you fire KK?

Because his vision for what the PS needs to be has always been consistant, and the fact that Sony can't actually deliver on his promise has made his claims look silly?

KK's vision isn't the problem.

Sony's ability to deliver on KK's vision is what is at issue.

 

[crystalcube]

Also the sentiment that ps3 will have a 10 year lifespan is a bit garbage in the argument for why it should be acceptable to charge more for the unit, because as everyone here knows the likelyhood that a ps3 that was bought on launch day and lasts for 10 years is a bit rediculous.

you are only concerened about the single PS3 you may or may not buy on launch day , while he is talking about PS3 as a platform.
There will be faults in PS3 and they will break down but PS3 as a platform will probably live for 10 years. PS1 did... PS2 will most likely do that ...so taking that as a case its more likely that PS3 will live as a platform for 10 years.