New High-Res Gears of War Screens

[rabidrabbit]

I can't recall any game that had been 30fps at an advanced stage of development, and 60fps at launch.
Anyone remember better?
Games that have had a lesser improvement in framerate there are many, GT4 for example.

 

[liverkick]

I agree Acert, yet note that no developer "squeezes" out another 30 fps by hacking their engine in the last minute. There's solid ground work put into each and every engine - while they do allow for optimization due to the nature of inefficient programming most of the time, it's not that these optimizations will double your performance unless some really sloppy programming is at work. Framerate is apart of a design process - something that you can't change that easy once you've moved beyond a certain stage in development.

Moving from single-core to multi-core isn't your usual type of optimization though right? Its a pretty dramatic shift I'd imagine. Depending on how well they're able to multi-thread and take advantage of the CPU would a significant boost in speed be out of the question?

The CoD 2 Gamespot interview was interesting in that they said they already had it multi-threaded, and it was a problem they prepared for early on. Basically saying they wanted to get it out of the way as soon as they could, sounds like they may be in the minority though, at least as far as the PC-centric devs go.

 

[Phil]

Moving from single-core to multi-core isn't your usual type of optimization though right? Its a pretty dramatic shift I'd imagine. Depending on how well they're able to multi-thread and take advantage of the CPU would a significant boost in speed be out of the question?

The CoD 2 Gamespot interview was interesting in that they said they already had it multi-threaded, and it was a problem they prepared for early on. Basically saying they wanted to get it out of the way as soon as they could, sounds like they may be in the minority though, at least as far as the PC-centric devs go.

I think it would depend how the engine is programmed and how far the abstraction layering goes. I don't think they'll be suddenly make an engine work with two cores but rather move some tasks that are being handled on a single core over to the second core. I remember reading here that an approach many developers will be taking is using one core for example for physics, while the other core could be taking care of other tasks such as i.e. AI if the tasks can run in parallel and there's not too much work involved getting it all synched and the results back into one thread (the main execution thread).

Since this is also running on the Unreal Engine, I would presume because of its PC-centric background that the engine is optimized for a single core with 2 threads - which is what we have running now. I guess what they're doing now is finding ways to use the other cores by moving tasks over. As I said, I don't think they'll double the performance because this isn't a situation where you simply overclock your one core to double frequency and everything runs double the speed - by moving tasks, you also have to manage the multiple streams of data and bring them back together - this is where inefficiency happens and where one core will likely idle at times while it's still waiting for results. IMO this is why we won't see "double performance" - I think the existing performance (sub 30 fps) should improve quite a bit so that we'll have a rock-solid 30 fps in the end.

Also, we don't know exactly what the current GOW is pulling off - is it even playable at this point? Sure the media suggests that, but it could also be a scripted sequence to show what it'll look like when it ships. We really don't know unless there's actual evidence of someone playing it and we can see that AI is already running sufficient and all the other gameplay mechanics (that IMO if that isn't the case, I wouldn't be sure there already incorporated into the game) which take up resources as well.

 

[Qroach]

Phil,

Also, we don't know exactly what the current GOW is pulling off - is it even playable at this point? Sure the media suggests that, but it could also be a scripted sequence to show what it'll look like when it ships. We really don't know unless there's actual evidence of someone playing it and we can see that AI is already running sufficient and all the other gameplay mechanics (that IMO if that isn't the case, I wouldn't be sure there already incorporated into the game) which take up resources as well.

yes it's playable. Epic has said so, demostrated it. the media has said so, and commented on it. we have video clips of the same area in the game being played, but you can clearly see it has changed as of the recent video.

I'm not really certain why you think it's not playable with all the evidence to the contrary.

 

[Phil]

In that case I stand corrected - I honestly didn't see any footage where it's being played by a person - only seemed to have read that execs demonstrated footage that showed it was being played but nothing that would have been a 100% confirmation (after all, GOW wasn't playable to the public AFAIK).

I simply assumed that the footage that showed "gameplay" could have also been pre-recorded to give an impression. If this is not the case, I stand corrected.

 

[AlNom]

Gamespot preview:

According to Bleszinski, at least in the demo we played, this unique mechanic is strictly enforced

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/gearsofwar/preview_6133348.html

playable

 

[Tim Murray]

Moving from single-core to multi-core isn't your usual type of optimization though right? Its a pretty dramatic shift I'd imagine. Depending on how well they're able to multi-thread and take advantage of the CPU would a significant boost in speed be out of the question?

The CoD 2 Gamespot interview was interesting in that they said they already had it multi-threaded, and it was a problem they prepared for early on. Basically saying they wanted to get it out of the way as soon as they could, sounds like they may be in the minority though, at least as far as the PC-centric devs go.

It's not going to double performance, even if you're totally CPU limited.

 

[Atsim]

I think Phil got Sony and Microsoft confused.

But all kidding aside, I hate that it's getting really hard to tell if a game is real time or cg'ed or scripted. I remember back when I got a PS2 and bought Midnight Club just because it looked cool on the back of it's case. Popped it in when I got home and lo and behold it looked nothing like the back of the box. I was SO dissapointed.

Are we going to have to go through this again? I hate this bait and switch game. I say developers shouldn't show anything unless it's playable.

 

[London Geezer]

I think Phil got Sony and Microsoft confused.

But all kidding aside, I hate that it's getting really hard to tell if a game is real time or cg'ed or scripted. I remember back when I got a PS2 and bought Midnight Club just because it looked cool on the back of it's case. Popped it in when I got home and lo and behold it looked nothing like the back of the box. I was SO dissapointed.

Are we going to have to go through this again? I hate this bait and switch game. I say developers shouldn't show anything unless it's playable.

Well, if you bought the game from the pics on the back of the case, then it wouldn't have made a difference if the devs had showed something playable before release, right?

You should know, in this day and age, not to buy anything from its cover! Unless it's porn.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I think it would depend how the engine is programmed and how far the abstraction layering goes. I don't think they'll be suddenly make an engine work with two cores but rather move some tasks that are being handled on a single core over to the second core. I remember reading here that an approach many developers will be taking is using one core for example for physics, while the other core could be taking care of other tasks such as i.e. AI if the tasks can run in parallel and there's not too much work involved getting it all synched and the results back into one thread (the main execution thread).

I would think that the developers at Epic have a much firmer grasp on the details of this system and this engine than anyone in this thread, and if they *think* they can double the framerate then I would tend to believe it's possible.

One approach that the COD2 guys are doing is one core for the game engine, one for AI, and one for special effects, they say they managed to figure out the multi-threading in 6 weeks and the rest was fine-tuning.

 

[_phil_]

not sure at all the 'double' thing was about frame rate.
it was more about game engine execution code ,and also when the novodex libs will be multithreaded.

 

[Phil]

I would think that the developers at Epic have a much firmer grasp on the details of this system and this engine than anyone in this thread, and if they *think* they can double the framerate then I would tend to believe it's possible.

If I'd be you, I'd keep an open mind and distinguish hype talk and marketing from the rest of it before downplaying what's been said in this thread.

I can tell you from experience that it's in nature to be very optimistic when talking about your own product in that you can get so much more out of it. I do it, others do it. Doesn't mean everything is 100% accurate.

 

[blakjedi]

You should know, in this day and age, not to buy anything from its cover! Unless it's porn.

I been disappointed by that too...

Anyway when I bought the first playstation, I looked at the games on teh back of that box...there was some phat boxing game I was into and that joint NEVER came out...

Fooled once shame on you, fooled twice...

 

[Nite_Hawk]

Fooled once shame on you, fooled twice...

...and I can't be fooled again?

Nite_Hawk

 

[mckmas8808]

Fooled once shame on you, fooled twice...

And I'll try it again.

 

[dave_m123]

GOW is supposedly running on just a single thread on one core according to a guy who works for MS that posted the info on TXB. Sounds like there is a lot of room for improvement.

 

[Uncle]

Don't know how much GOW willl improve, but games that will be made on actual hardware from the start have to be pretty damn impressive.

 

[London Geezer]

Heh, just imagine games coming out 3 or 4 years after release... Especially when they're using proprietary engines and not multiplatform ones like UE3.