New DVD Has Dual-Layered Surface (HD-DVD one-up on Blu-ray?)

[Josh378]

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/041208/japan_toshiba_dvds_1.html

Japan Companies Develop DVD That Can Play on Existing Machines, Coming High-Definition Players

TOKYO (AP) -- Two Japanese companies said Tuesday they have developed a DVD that can play on both existing machines and the upcoming high-definition players, raising hopes for a smooth transition as more people dump old TV sets for better screens.

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Toshiba Corp. and Memory-Tech Corp. said their disc has a dual-layered surface that can store both types of data on the same side.

For consumers, that would eliminate the potential headache of having to own two types of DVD players: Both will be able to read such discs, though only the newer equipment can take advantage of the higher-resolution technology.

The discs, which took six months to develop, will be able to hold 4.7 GB in the current format and 15 GB in high resolution, Memory-Tech spokesman Masato Otsuka said.

Making the discs won't cost any more than the companies now spend on producing current DVDs, Otsuka said.

The new DVDs rely on the HD-DVD format, which has the backing of the DVD Forum, an international association of electronics makers and movie studios. New DVD players using the format are expected to hit stores by late 2005.

Its competitor, Blu-Ray, is backed by Sony Corp., its Hollywood studio and News Corp.'s Fox Entertainment Group Inc. Blu-Ray has more storage space, but HD-DVD is expected to be cheaper to produce because its technology closely resembles current DVDs.

It's still unclear which will become the dominant technology.

Ouch.....what will Sony and the other companies one-up Toshiba?

-Josh378

 

[Guden Oden]

What's this doing in the console forum

 

[Jov]

What's this doing in the console forum

Because its like a MS [HD-DVD] one-up Sony wrt consoles

 

[wco81]

Actually this weakens HD-DVD as a next gen format.

Instead of two 15-GB layers, this hybrid disc would have one 15-GB layer and a 4.7 GB layer. IOW, they would be reducing the capacity when it's already losing in the storage capacity battle vs. Blu-Ray.

 

[emacs]

Re: New DVD Has Dual-Layered Surface (HD-DVD one-up on Blu-r

Ouch.....what will Sony and the other companies one-up Toshiba?

not a "one-up" but Sony will ease the migration to Blu-ray with ...
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200411/04-1116E/

 

[quest55720]

Actually this weakens HD-DVD as a next gen format.

Instead of two 15-GB layers, this hybrid disc would have one 15-GB layer and a 4.7 GB layer. IOW, they would be reducing the capacity when it's already losing in the storage capacity battle vs. Blu-Ray.

I think it is great. I can buy combo disks and play them on my laptop, PC, regualar DVD player and eventually a HD-DVD player. Unless blue ray movies come with a regular DVD version then no sale to me. I travel a lot and my laptop DVD player is a god send. This is big think how happy rental places are one disk to cover both HD and non-HD. Blue ray can go away now. This is just to damn sweet Ill be able to build up a HD library while I save for a HD TV and player. My friends or family want to borrow a movie no problem.

 

[Tagrineth]

You know, this technology could make feasible the "Current gen game that gets a *** boost from being played in future console" idea someone had in another thread....

 

[phat]

This is just to damn sweet Ill be able to build up a HD library while I save for a HD TV and player. My friends or family want to borrow a movie no problem.

Think for a moment. The half bit-rate versions of movies on this dual-standard format will hardly be library-quality...

 

[Almasy]

Wouldn´t the movie quality be compromised quite a bit by this?? I don´t think this is much more than a hack.

Yeah, it´s nice that you can get a disc that is also compatible with HD-DVD, but it ends up being defficient as a movie in a standard definition as well as deficient as a HD movie.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I don't see how this is advantageous to the consumer in any way.

Major HD DVD releases should still come as non-hybrid HD DVD discs to really take advantage of the extra storage space.

You'd still need a HD DVD player to view HD DVD content.
HD DVD players will already be able to read current DVD's

I don't see many consumers buying these hybrid discs just to "get ready for HD-DVD while being able to view the DVD content" if they don't already own High Def players/displays.

 

[PC-Engine]

This can be a good thing if implemented well. For example they can include a HD version of the movie on the 4.7GB red laser read layer. All you would need is a MPEG4 or VC-1 decoder since every DVD drive currently on the market can read this layer with no problems. This opens the way for cheap red laser DVD/HD DVD hybrid players. Later when the blue laser HD DVD player prices fall people can just pop the same disc back in that they bought and get the full blow HD DVD treatment with significantly higher bitrates. They can always pack in two of these hybrid discs for bonus features like they currently do today.

However the downside to this scenario is that regular stand alone players cannot play these discs only computer players where the decoder is software based. I wonder if people are willing to buy a cheap hybrid HD DVD player to replace their existing standalone DVD players. I think it's a good choice for consumers considering DVD players nowadays are pretty cheap anyway and people usually have more than one so say if they choose to buy these new cheap Hybrid HD DVD players they can play their old DVDs as well as the new red laser based HD DVDs at a very low cost maybe $200-$300 at launch in 2005?

 

[Guden Oden]

Because its like a MS [HD-DVD] one-up Sony wrt consoles

It is? Please explain how TF that would be the case. The way I see it, if anything, this product dilutes HD-DVD as a format and lessens the need for a switch. Why would people buy HD-DVD players if they can continue to use their old DVD players?

PS3 on the other hand WILL READ BLU-RAY AND DVD. Anyone who buys a PS3 will have blu-ray compatibility as a freebie. Why would anyone need a half-assed dual-layer double format thing? Unneccessary, when the drive mechanism will play blu-ray, CD and DVD all in one.

Besides, when did MS confirm they'll use HD-DVD in nextbox? That's afaik just an assumption, though perhaps one classified as a fairly safe bet since "only" 9GB might be too little for next-gen games (though I know of no games which take up even close to that much space without also including movies). Still not set in stone though.

 

[rabidrabbit]

This can be a good thing if implemented well. For example they can include a HD version of the movie on the 4.7GB red laser read layer. All you would need is a MPEG4 or VC-1 decoder since every DVD drive currently on the market can read this layer with no problems. This opens the way for cheap red laser DVD/HD DVD hybrid players. Later when the blue laser HD DVD player prices fall people can just pop the same disc back in that they bought and get the full blow HD DVD treatment with significantly higher bitrates. They can always pack in two of these hybrid discs for bonus features like they currently do today.

However the downside to this scenario is that regular stand alone players cannot play these discs only computer players where the decoder is software based. I wonder if people are willing to buy a cheap hybrid HD DVD player to replace their existing standalone DVD players. I think it's a good choice for consumers considering DVD players nowadays are pretty cheap anyway and people usually have more than one so say if they choose to buy these new cheap Hybrid HD DVD players they can play their old DVDs as well as the new red laser based HD DVDs at a very low cost maybe $200-$300 at launch in 2005?

Yeah, I'm sure I would jump in joy to get my hands on a half-assed dvd version of the movie on one-layer (you see, they put virtually every DVD on two layers today, to get room for better picture and sound, together with extras),
and a half-assed high definition version of the movie on the second layer
It'd be even better if they released the movie on 4 discs to retain the quality and features of a "normal" dvd or HD versions

...or I could just buy the DVD and be happy with it, and maybe if the move is good enough I'd buy the real, superiour HD-DVD version.

........on the other hand, I think I'll just dl the divx from p2p, that'll save me a big penny and a lot of hassle (<- sarcasm)

 

[-tkf-]

Two good formats reduced to 1/2 their potential with one blow..

 

[London Geezer]

You know, this technology could make feasible the "Current gen game that gets a *** boost from being played in future console" idea someone had in another thread....

Oi Tag where have you been!!?

 

[Farid]

The DVD movie on 1 layer and the HDDVD version of the movie on a 2nd layer scenario, is very unlikely to become a reality.
Without even mentioning the technical side of the thing (potentialy halving the bitrate in both format), i'll just point out the fact that this scenario is definitely not a winner solution for the studios. When they could sell you twice the same movie, here they would sale it to you only once... Very unlikely, i said.

 

[PC-Engine]

This can be a good thing if implemented well. For example they can include a HD version of the movie on the 4.7GB red laser read layer. All you would need is a MPEG4 or VC-1 decoder since every DVD drive currently on the market can read this layer with no problems. This opens the way for cheap red laser DVD/HD DVD hybrid players. Later when the blue laser HD DVD player prices fall people can just pop the same disc back in that they bought and get the full blow HD DVD treatment with significantly higher bitrates. They can always pack in two of these hybrid discs for bonus features like they currently do today.

However the downside to this scenario is that regular stand alone players cannot play these discs only computer players where the decoder is software based. I wonder if people are willing to buy a cheap hybrid HD DVD player to replace their existing standalone DVD players. I think it's a good choice for consumers considering DVD players nowadays are pretty cheap anyway and people usually have more than one so say if they choose to buy these new cheap Hybrid HD DVD players they can play their old DVDs as well as the new red laser based HD DVDs at a very low cost maybe $200-$300 at launch in 2005?

Yeah, I'm sure I would jump in joy to get my hands on a half-assed dvd version of the movie on one-layer (you see, they put virtually every DVD on two layers today, to get room for better picture and sound, together with extras),
and a half-assed high definition version of the movie on the second layer
It'd be even better if they released the movie on 4 discs to retain the quality and features of a "normal" dvd or HD versions

...or I could just buy the DVD and be happy with it, and maybe if the move is good enough I'd buy the real, superiour HD-DVD version.

........on the other hand, I think I'll just dl the divx from p2p, that'll save me a big penny and a lot of hassle (<- sarcasm)

I suggest you reread my post.

Here I'll clarify for you. The 4.7GB layer will also be HD using the new CODECs to offer HD resolutions using the standard red laser. Obviously this is only beneficial to people who: 1. buy new red laser based HD DVD playres which will be VERY cheap and/or 2. watch DVDs on their PCs.

Now with regards to the blue laser HD layer, 15GB might be enough for the main movie while the extras can be put on a second disc. Of course this is only a stop gap to ease the transition while the prices on blue laser HD DVD players fall to mass market levels. Heck people are starting to move to upconverting DVD players already. Not only that but this scenario also allows PS3 to playback red laser based HD DVD movies!!!

 

[rabidrabbit]

...yes PC........... what you just explained would only make me put my previous post in bold, italic, underlined, CAPS'ed and remove the "(<-sarcasm)" at the end.
.
.
.
so what was your point again?

 

[London Geezer]

I've only glanced over this thread but i can already see it's at the point of no return. When PC-Engine argues. With no one. He just argues. And uses lots of little cute emoticons.

 

[PC-Engine]

I've only glanced over this thread but i can already see it's at the point of no return. When PC-Engine argues. With no one. He just argues. And uses lots of little cute emoticons.

If you have nothing to add other than to make comments about other members then maybe you shouldn't say anything at all? Why so much drama dude?

Anyhow...like I said this CAN be a good thing as a shorterm solution. Nobody said this will mean no DL HD DVD in the future. Nobody is forcing you to buy these if they indeed materialize. Regardless nobody knows what bitrate the studios plan on using initially even for full blown DL HD DVDs. If they do what they did when DVD initially appeared then they won't be using all of the space on a DVD since initially DVDs were only single layer. And that is what I predict will happen in the beginning with HD DVD. You guys actually think Hollywood would use DL HD DVD right off the bat just for the main movie and put the bonus material on a second DL HD DVD?