Natural Motion Football: "Backbreaker"
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Everytime I've seen footage for this throughout the years, I've thought "meh". I think this game is going to fail, and ultimately nothing good will come of it. "Nice Tech" does not make a good game. I mean, it's good that they are trying to do something new, but nothing about this looks like it's functional, and they've yet to show any actual "gameplay". Everything has just been "tech demo's" for the most part. No sale.
actually if you listen to the video diary he says some of what we are seeing is actual camera angle is the camera angle (on field) in the game and unique.
if they bring it out at $39.99 I'd grab it dyay one for the backbreaking tackle system and the first person football view... always been a sucker for the on field game play and Ea is not a fan of it preferring "old gen" views
Of course it's not gonna be a financial nor "football game" success since it doesn't have NFL and is more of an arcade game but fun and interesting if the controls are there. And I love the stick control for all the moves.
If this game comes out at $39.99 it will be a disaster. It needs to be priced at $19.99. Not having the NFL license and not using All Stars a'la 2K, really limits the overall mass appeal to this title. I can't watch the vid behind my work firewall but the previous implementations of first person view in football games was near unusable. I can't wrap my head around what would make it work. I'm highly skeptical.
I think that's a really sad state of affairs. Sensible Soccer was great without any official characters. Likewise I play FIFA with teams I don't know, and players I don't know. PES was a great football game on PS2 with only a few official characters and lots of funny alternatives. Much as I understand the added thrill of playing one's preferred team in a sports game, I'd hope that the sport itself would be worth playing. Is American Football really that restricted that no-one will play the game without the franchise players? Is there no room for a fantasy football game where one can create their own teams, logos, etc.?
Sadly that seems to be how it is. I play a lot of EA NHL, but if a better game came along, I'd switch in a heart beat, even if that game didn't have the NHL players in it.
Backbreaker looks really cool, to me. It looks so much more lifelike than Madden. I'm assuming it'll be very arcadey. I'm curious as to how deep the experience will be.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
I still have a hard time believing their ultimate goal is to do anything other than sell the tech to EA so they can incorporate it into Madden and get all the credit.
So I guess like tha said, I think it's a tech demo.
So I guess like tha said, I think it's a tech demo.
I find sports games a good way to learn about other sports. I think there is room for Mutant League Football, Sensible Soccer, Everybody's Golf and Mario Strikers like games that aren't licensed, but they should be cheaper. All the stats work applied to trying to emulate the reality must be a right headache. Then there's the additional cost of the license. Sure a none real world representation has to deal with balancing issues, but they generally have far less entities to balance.
I can agree the lincensing is going to cost, ergo yoou'd expect a price discrepency between licensed franchises and not. However, there's nothing technically different between FIFA 10 and "FIFA 10 only with randomised/user created players and teams" that would warrant the latter being cheaper. And if the technology of the non-licensed game is better, that is it's actually a better game (old PES versus FIFA) it'd warrant equality in pricing. Just like PES did.
Me personally, I expect to pay a good price for a good game. If someone produced a more realistic footy sim than FIFA 10, it'd be something I'd play (although admittedly it'd be my mate that actually buys it!) in place of FIFA. I wouldn't expect it to be cheaper, nor would I expect it to be an inferior game for lack of licensing brands. Still, if the world at large expects non-franchise titles to be budget-priced, that's kinda forcing developers to be cheap and produce inferior products, ergo reinforcing the brand-image as the definitive example of the genre.
Perhaps, not being an avid supporter of any particular sporting team, I'm missing an essential emotional attachment that justifies these expectations?
Me personally, I expect to pay a good price for a good game. If someone produced a more realistic footy sim than FIFA 10, it'd be something I'd play (although admittedly it'd be my mate that actually buys it!) in place of FIFA. I wouldn't expect it to be cheaper, nor would I expect it to be an inferior game for lack of licensing brands. Still, if the world at large expects non-franchise titles to be budget-priced, that's kinda forcing developers to be cheap and produce inferior products, ergo reinforcing the brand-image as the definitive example of the genre.
Perhaps, not being an avid supporter of any particular sporting team, I'm missing an essential emotional attachment that justifies these expectations?
The last game we had that wasn't NFL licensed was All Pro NFL 2K8. 2K even released the game at $19.99 price point and still couldn't warrant a 2K9 version. That was even with all-pro professionals from the last 50 years.
Coming in at a $39.99 for a football tech demo seems like a questionable gamble in a very selective market.
Coming in at a $39.99 for a football tech demo seems like a questionable gamble in a very selective market.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
NFL is huge in the US. It's not so much that people won't buy it because it isn't licensed as it is that peple will buy anything that is licensed.
Consider that people pay over 100 USD for a football jersey of their favorite player. Or for lifesize player stickers for their walls.
The licensing costs a ton, but it's as close as you can get to guaranteed sales.
So if you can license NFL or NCAA, that's instant bonus sales. Regionally, college football is even more huge than NFL.
Regards,
SB
This pretty much looks superior to Madden in almost every way shape and form when it comes to animations. Madden in my opinion is a very stale franchise, I personally believe the devs should have a 2 year cycle on sports games now with wide access to the internet for console gamers.
Release Madden 2011 for $60 (Core Team)
Release a patch for 2011 to update it to 2012 for $20 (Secondary Team)
Release Madden 2013 for $60 (Core Team)
etc
etc
etc
The current system is a cash cow for EA, it seems they release a version of madden and simply patch it each year and charge people for it..kinda sad.
Back on topic though, although hit detection looks great in this game the "Catching" does not look very realistic to me. The receiver isn't going to have his hands that far apart when catching a ball, relying on one hand to guide it into the other unless it is a difficult catch. The majority of catches/throws looked to me as if they where routine pass types; nothing requiring an acrobatic grab. Now if they showed a receiver reaching out with one hand, barely holding the ball underneath while his other hand comes slapping down onto the top of it..yes...but like this...no.
This tech would be great with the NFL franchise behind it; although that is another story altogether.
Release Madden 2011 for $60 (Core Team)
Release a patch for 2011 to update it to 2012 for $20 (Secondary Team)
Release Madden 2013 for $60 (Core Team)
etc
etc
etc
The current system is a cash cow for EA, it seems they release a version of madden and simply patch it each year and charge people for it..kinda sad.
Back on topic though, although hit detection looks great in this game the "Catching" does not look very realistic to me. The receiver isn't going to have his hands that far apart when catching a ball, relying on one hand to guide it into the other unless it is a difficult catch. The majority of catches/throws looked to me as if they where routine pass types; nothing requiring an acrobatic grab. Now if they showed a receiver reaching out with one hand, barely holding the ball underneath while his other hand comes slapping down onto the top of it..yes...but like this...no.
This tech would be great with the NFL franchise behind it; although that is another story altogether.
The camera system employed would be great for the running game, but I would hate to use it for passing. It just seems really limited and difficult to pick out open receivers.
It would be great if it switched to that angle for running. Also, how do you play defense with the point of view so low.
It would be great if it switched to that angle for running. Also, how do you play defense with the point of view so low.
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
Have you guys tried to play Madden 2010 online? They offer different views, and if you try to play online over Live both on the same team, both of you are automatically forced into first person views.
First person views completely change the entire game, in some ways for the better and other ways not so much. But Madden 2010 incorporates all the views you guys are talking about and lets you decide which to use. I imagine this game would be the same way.
As far as how important licensing goes - it's not licensing per say, it's the individuals. For example, the college game, NCAA Football doesn't provide player names - only numbers. Yes, this is due to licensing rights, the players being underage and not represented ala the NFL players association, etc.
Anyway, the NCAA game lets you change the players name from Player #34 to Ricky Williams, if you want to sit there and type them all in. Many people actually do so. For the PC versions, people make files so you can update your rosters with the names of the players all the way down to Freshman - and this is on HUGE college rosters.
So, I'd say yes... having actual players rather than 'generic running back' is a very important component of the game.
The only way to get a football game to get around that is to make it some sort of 'fantasy' or 'sci-fi' football. Played with Ogres as the linemen and dwarfs as running backs, or played with robots or aliens.
Of course, at that point, you're limiting your audience to a different type of player.
First person views completely change the entire game, in some ways for the better and other ways not so much. But Madden 2010 incorporates all the views you guys are talking about and lets you decide which to use. I imagine this game would be the same way.
As far as how important licensing goes - it's not licensing per say, it's the individuals. For example, the college game, NCAA Football doesn't provide player names - only numbers. Yes, this is due to licensing rights, the players being underage and not represented ala the NFL players association, etc.
Anyway, the NCAA game lets you change the players name from Player #34 to Ricky Williams, if you want to sit there and type them all in. Many people actually do so. For the PC versions, people make files so you can update your rosters with the names of the players all the way down to Freshman - and this is on HUGE college rosters.
So, I'd say yes... having actual players rather than 'generic running back' is a very important component of the game.
The only way to get a football game to get around that is to make it some sort of 'fantasy' or 'sci-fi' football. Played with Ogres as the linemen and dwarfs as running backs, or played with robots or aliens.
Of course, at that point, you're limiting your audience to a different type of player.
evidently this is priced at $49.99 US
discussing euphoria
discussing euphoria
actually if you listen to the video diary he says some of what we are seeing is actual camera angle is the camera angle (on field) in the game and unique.
if they bring it out at $39.99 I'd grab it dyay one for the backbreaking tackle system and the first person football view... always been a sucker for the on field game play and Ea is not a fan of it preferring "old gen" views
Of course it's not gonna be a financial nor "football game" success since it doesn't have NFL and is more of an arcade game but fun and interesting if the controls are there. And I love the stick control for all the moves.
What I mean is, we've seen video that they've claimed to be gameplay, but we haven't seen any play selection and control. It's easy to show this stuff off when you're controlling everything, but I want to see someone play it.
Why? Becuase honestly I think each and every aspect of the game will be infuriating to anyone who has played a football game in the last 15 years.
Seeing the field is a HUGE part of football. This ass backwards 3rd person camera destory's everything, it's nothing but cinematic. As a football player, you can see very quickly all around you, and you have periphial vision. These are things that cannot be done on a TV during gameplay. So, the solution is to pull the camera back to give a wider field of view. This close over the shoulder (not centered) camera is garbage in every way. It LOOKS nice, on screen, but IMO it will play TERRIBLY.
Not excited for that at all. So, like I said, until they actually start showing me they have an actual product outside of promotional videos and no real evidence of gameplay (short clips of a few plays doesn't cut it) I'm not buying what they're trying to sell to me (rather, EA).
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
Yep, and this was part of what I was saying above. If you don't believe what he says, you can try it out right now because Madden 2010 lets you do this with the camera. It makes the game nearly impossible to play both on offense and on defense, it really turns it into a single person (rather than a team) game. Sure, you can do a first person view and play as a wide receiver. You might get a handful of passes thrown your way, or need to block on an outside run if the back comes your way. The rest of the game? You have no idea what is happening because you can't see the field (obviously).
I guess the point then is to go back after each play, watch the cinematic and enjoy the wonderful physics for each 15 second clip before you trot back out to your little island, trying to wage your own personal battle with the cornerback hoping the QB might throw you the ball this time.
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