My sister and brother in law ordered a complete home theater system today for $5K.

[muted]

I've been looking for a new TV myself, from what i read dlp bulbs have a lifespan of 80,000 hours while plasma displays have a lifespan of 60,000 and you can't 'pump' more gas in..

 

[PC-Engine]

I've been looking for a new TV myself, from what i read dlp bulbs have a lifespan of 80,000 hours while plasma displays have a lifespan of 60,000 and you can't 'pump' more gas in..

That's not true at all. Those Xenon bulbs only last like 5000-10,000 hrs max. The good thing about DLPs is that the picture quality isn't affected by aging like projection LCDs do since DLP chips don't use orgranic materials like LCDs. LCD chips degrade over time.

 

[ZoinKs!]

Just to put it in perspective, 60,000 hours is about 6 years and nine months of continuous operation.

But I wouldn't get a plasma for other reasons, such as they're stuck at ED instead of real HD res.

 

[ZoinKs!]

i must ask,
can you see THAT MUCH difference between a 250$ dvd player and a yakumo dvd player of 60$ that I have?

That will depend on two things:
(1) how good is your eyesight?
(2) what sort of display is it connected to?

 

[PC-Engine]

Just to put it in perspective, 60,000 hours is about 6 years and nine months of continuous operation.

But I wouldn't get a plasma for other reasons, such as they're stuck at ED instead of real HD res.

Huh? 1366x768 is higher than 1280x720 which is HD.

 

[ZoinKs!]

I should have been more specific... most plasmas are still ED rather then HD.

 

[stevem]

Good selection of components, PC-Engine. For a good base system, it's hard to get better bang/$. The Yamaha audio gear is hard to beat, but I find their speakers a little tizzy & mids recessed, but for HT they're good. The new 50" Panasonic G8 panels are extremely good value/performance, else a DLP is the way to go, but oh well...

I've been looking for a 42" panel for the study, but all are ED in this size. A 50" panel is going to be a little large for the room, so I've started looking at LCDs but am not all that impressed. I may well just get the new slim 42" Samsung DLP.

Edit: Re: Yamaha AST, it's basically a negative impedence drive. The amp output stage implicitly knows the electrical properties of the driver & applies the optimal damping factor. This results in an amp/sub combo that performs at better efficiency. They're not quite uni-Q or feedback designs, but are actually fairly musical instead of the usual monotone "look how low my specs go" HT subs...

 

[kyleb]

Huh? 1366x768 is higher than 1280x720 which is HD.

Sure enough, and even the higher end 1024x768 ones have arguably better picture quality than any DLP or LCD.

 

[Phil]

Bose sounds fine, it's just overpriced.

Actually, they don't - and that's pretty much settled. You'll always find something better within the same price line.

--

Anyway, can't say I'm a big fan of Yamaha speakers either, but I suppose they provide some solid ground work while a good 'bang for buck'.

 

[Moloch]

Bose sounds fine, it's just overpriced.

Ok grandpa.
(only someone with bad hearing would say that.)

 

[PC-Engine]

Just a quick update. Sister decided to get a different tv stand with a single shelf instead of the dual shelf unit that I posted earlier. This one is better because it has a lower profile which keeps the tv lower balancing out with the speakers and for better viewing.

Originally we were going to put the center speaker in the tv stand shelf below the tv, but then decided to mount it on a wall shelf instead because we will be getting some more components to add to the system later on and need the shelf space in the stand. We purchased a glass shelf and brackets and mounted the center speaker above the tv on the wall. Since the wall shelf is wider than the speaker by about 6" on each side I decided we needed something to fill in the empty space. I recommended small lights, candle pods, or some kind of ornament/figurine. My sister ended up getting some very cool looking blue LED lights from IKEA which was also where we got the wall shelf and different speaker stands from what we orginially got. The new speaker stands have a stainless steel finish. The LED lights have moveable plates which I positioned to get the best look. The light can be placed in various vertical/horizontal etc.

Yesterday I ordered an Alesis DEQ230D digital dual 30-Band EQ/RT spectrum analyzer with an SPDIF input for CD music listening and karaoke. I will also connect the Toslink to bypass the EQ for DVD movies. The EQ has a bypass but since the karaoke mixer is also attached to the EQ using analog TRS jacks and the DVD player connected using SPDIF the separate Toslink was necessary since I didn't want the audio signal going through the EQ for movies even though it's digital.

http://www.alesis.com/images/products/full/DEQ230D.jpg
http://www.alesis.com/images/products/full/DEQ230D_BACK.jpg

Also ordered a BMB DX-3000 karaoke mixer complete with vacuum tube preamp stage and two true diversity (2 antennas for each mic) UHF 32 ch wireless mics for my sister because they love karaoke.:smile:

http://store1.yimg.com/I/acekaraoke_1863_71206052

http://www.hisonic.net/MICS/HSU232.jpg

Finally also ordered a SONY DVP-CX995V 400 DVD 720p/1080i upconverting jukebox to go along with the Toshiba upconverting DVD player. However we ended up gettting the Toshiba SD-4980 instead of the SD-5980 that was posted earlier. The Toshiba will only be used for CD music, MP3s and JPEGs and DVDs from friends now and will only be hooked up using component since the tv only has one HDMI input. All our DVDs including karaoke will be kept in the jukebox.

http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2005/158/h158cx995v.jpeg

Anyway I'll post pictures of the complete system once everything gets here and properly hooked up. Also some of the wires are exposed as of right now but we'll have all of them routed through white piping when everything is installed. For the speakers I'm using pretty heavy 12 gauge speaker wire. We bought a 250' spool of it at a hardware store for a measely $75.

 

[PC-Engine]

Finally got everything setup. One funny thing is that it took me a LONG TIME to load the 350+ DVDs into the jukebox because I sprayed each and every DVD with compressed air to clean them. I figure, if they're to be stored in a dustproof jukebox then they should be clean to begin with. Also had to type in the names of the movies using a keyboard hooked up to the jukebox. It took me about 3 hours to clean and put the DVDs in then another 2 hrs for the jukebox to load/read/register the type of discs and finally another 2 hrs to type in the titles/genre/artist etc.

Anyway here are the pics. The lighting in the livingroom is by high wattage floodlights and I turned off the flash for most of the pics so it looks kinda yellowish. Notice I also added the Alesis surge/AC line conditioner to the system which also have it's own voltage display and pull lights (shiney aluminum knobs). Overall the system cost about $6K total with everything you see there including the stands, lights, shelf, cables etc. I'd also like to mention that all the color adjustments I've done were from pure eye only, no AVIA or DVD Essentials.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/Erasure4ever/DSCF0026.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/Erasure4ever/DSCF0022.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/Erasure4ever/DSCF0021.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/Erasure4ever/DSCF0018.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/Erasure4ever/DSCF0016.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/Erasure4ever/DSCF0040.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/Erasure4ever/DSCF0036.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/Erasure4ever/DSCF0034.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/Erasure4ever/DSCF0032.jpg

Now a little bit about the sound. What I noticed about the sound is that for music it sounds VERY good but without the EQ, the speakers will not reveal its full potential. These speakers can definitely produce very good highs and it becomes very apparent when used with the EQ. Also like someone had mentioned previously, the Yamaha's mids are fairly recessed so at low volumes the EQ helps a lot. At high volumes the sound can be pretty bright maybe even too bright and again the EQ helps tremendously there too. This only applies to music though as movies for some reason or another sound perfect without the EQ.

To my suprise the sub is very strong for a 10 incher and this is likely due to the built-in 250W amp + the unique YST technology. The sub is about 13.5ft from the viewing position according to the Yamaha YPAO analyzer and when I watch a movie I can actually feel the air coming out of the bass port 13.5ft away! At first I thought it was the ceiling fan, but then realized the cool breeze was actually coming from the sub! Of course the speakers rumble the sofa too.

Anyway I've decided to probably biamplify the two front mains since they're capable of biamplifaction. Right now the front mains are hooked to set A front. When I move the system to the new house I will set the highs/mids to set A and the lows to set B. What this does is offer less resistance since I'll be using two sets of speaker cables to each of the front L and R channels. For example instead of using a single speaker cable even though they're pretty heavy 12 gauge speaker wire to each of the front L/R speaker, I will be using two speaker cables for each front speaker. There is one last item that we'll be adding to the system and it's a universal remote with touch screen.

http://www.remotecentral.com/av3000/photo15.jpg

See I'm not really a SONY hater afterall.

 

[stevem]

For the speakers I'm using pretty heavy 12 gauge speaker wire. We bought a 250' spool of it at a hardware store for a measely $75.

This will be fine as long as it's 6N. Actually, "heavy" gauge wire can be more problematic than a lighter flex...

Now a little bit about the sound. What I noticed about the sound is that for music it sounds VERY good but without the EQ, the speakers will not reveal its full potential. These speakers can definitely produce very good highs and it becomes very apparent when used with the EQ. Also like someone had mentioned previously, the Yamaha's mids are fairly recessed so at low volumes the EQ helps a lot. At high volumes the sound can be pretty bright maybe even too bright and again the EQ helps tremendously there too. This only applies to music though as movies for some reason or another sound perfect without the EQ.

As the speakers are new they'll take some time to break in. The sound is likely constricted at first, but will open up once the suspensions (surrounds/spiders) have been used for a bit. I won't get hoakey & talk about x-over caps, etc... Keep the output <25% for a few days. You should not need EQ at all, unless you're compensating for acoustic anomalies or for temporal/spatial compensation in the digital domain (active x-overs). The Yamaha speaker series I saw had flush mounted drivers. Yours aren't & also employ shallow horn loading for the mid & tweeter so I'd be surprised if they're lacking in this department. Try shifting the front L/R speakers further from the sides of the screen, & place the sub further away, too. Try a corner, for the effect. Also set sub x-over freq <80Hz.

To my suprise the sub is very strong for a 10 incher and this is likely due to the built-in 250W amp. The sub is about 13.5ft from the viewing position according to the Yamaha YPAO analyzer and when I watch a movie I can actually feel the air coming out of the bass port 13.5ft away! At first I thought it was the ceiling fan, but then realized the cool breeze was actually coming from the sub! Of course the speakers rumble the sofa too.

It's probably the switching amp/BASH PS design coupled with Yamaha's AST tech, rather than the 250W rated amp in itself. It's unfortunate that size is an issue for LF response. By designing a sub-woofer with T/S parameters for a small volume alignment, you become restricted by port size/length/tuning frequency. A small box will need a smaller diameter port, else it will be too long to fit in the enclosure (for the same tuning frequency). A smaller port has a higher air velocity, leading to more distortion/noise.

Anyway I've decided to probably biamplify the two front mains since they're capable of biamplifaction. Right now the front mains are hooked to set A front. When I move the system to the new house I will set the highs/mids to set A and the lows to set B. What this does is offer less resistance since I'll be using two sets of speaker cables to each of the front L and R channels. For example instead of using a single speaker cable even though they're pretty heavy 12 gauge speaker wire to each of the front L/R speaker, I will be using two speaker cables for each front speaker.

I wouldn't bother. You do realize that A/B speaker taps are being driven from the same output device? In effect all you'll be doing is bi-wiring. For bi-amping, you'll need to connect physically separate amp sections, eg the L/R rear. If you have 5.1 output, you can use the "extra" two channels from the 7.1 amp if you feel like playing around with it. BTW, the less resistance argument is hoakey. Given decent OFC cable for the length of runs commonly used, resistance is the least of the problems. The point of bi-amping is to power the individual drivers/x-over segments with dedicated amps. Even if the speakers have seperable binding posts for wiring, any "common" in the x-over negates any benefits to be had...

There is one last item that we'll be adding to the system and it's a universal remote with touch screen.

Nice.

 

[PC-Engine]

Actually, "heavy" gauge wire can be more problematic than a lighter flex...

That's true, but for the installation I'm using it works well because the routing doesn't require many sharp turns or tight spaces.:smile:

As the speakers are new they'll take some time to break in. The sound is likely constricted at first, but will open up once the suspensions (surrounds/spiders) have been used for a bit. I won't get hoakey & talk about x-over caps, etc... Keep the output <25% for a few days.

Good point, didn't think about that.

You should not need EQ at all, unless you're compensating for acoustic anomalies or for temporal/spatial compensation in the digital domain (active x-overs).

Well a lot of the CDs that they listen to have very different mixes so I use the EQ to tailor the sound for more consistency and listenability at different volume levels.

Try shifting the front L/R speakers further from the sides of the screen, & place the sub further away, too. Try a corner, for the effect. Also set sub x-over freq <80Hz.

I would like to move the fronts farther apart, but it's not possible since the wall on the left starts to bend about 150 degrees. This is where the sub is located which is a good position because the angle dispurses any standing waves from the sub. Also right now the x-over is set to 90Hz which seems fine. Actually the x-crossover doesn't affect the main speakers anyway because I've setup the receiver to output the LFE channel to both the sub and the fronts. My reciever also has a built-in x-over + phase adjustment for the sub.

A smaller port has a higher air velocity, leading to more distortion/noise.

That's true but the port is rounded at the edge so that minimizes the noise significantly. The port seems rather large relative to the cabinet too.

I wouldn't bother. You do realize that A/B speaker taps are being driven from the same output device? In effect all you'll be doing is bi-wiring. For bi-amping, you'll need to connect physically separate amp sections, eg the L/R rear. If you have 5.1 output, you can use the "extra" two channels from the 7.1 amp if you feel like playing around with it. BTW, the less resistance argument is hoakey. Given decent OFC cable for the length of runs commonly used, resistance is the least of the problems. The point of bi-amping is to power the individual drivers/x-over segments with dedicated amps. Even if the speakers have seperable binding posts for wiring, any "common" in the x-over negates any benefits to be had...

According to my receiver and speaker manual, the biamping is perfectly suited for use with the A/B speaker set on the reciever. On page 4 it says this will reduce modulation distortion. I'm pretty sure the speakers were designed to benefit from being hooked up to a Yamaha receiver's A/B set. It surely wouldn't hurt to biamp.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/manuals/PDFs/NS-777_555_1e.pdf

 

[stevem]

That's true, but for the installation I'm using it works well because the routing doesn't require many sharp turns or tight spaces.:smile:

That's not what I meant. A piece of cable is a transmission line. It has capacitance & inductance. Depending on construction & dielectric, you may not be getting what you expect... A thicker gauge cable may have a greater reactance thereby adding a conjugate filter network to your system. (In all probablity your cables are as good or better than numerous "hi-fi" cables).

Well a lot of the CDs that they listen to have very different mixes so I use the EQ to tailor the sound for more consistency and listenability at different volume levels.

Nothing like a funky tone control.

I would like to move the fronts farther apart, but it's not possible since the wall on the left starts to bend about 150 degrees.

IC. I just had a look at your pics. Nice leather couch. It's easy to forget much depends on room acoustics. My previous house had weird LF acoustics.

This is where the sub is located which is a good position because the angle dispurses any standing waves from the sub.

Que? You've measured the position & incidence of standing waves...? Do you know how long a wavelength of 30Hz is?

Also right now the x-over is set to 90Hz which seems fine. Actually the x-crossover doesn't affect the main speakers anyway because I've setup the receiver to output the LFE channel to both the sub and the fronts. My reciever also has a built-in x-over + phase adjustment for the sub.

More point sources = more chances for standing waves/interference patterns. Your front L/R are good to 50Hz, try setting the sub below that. That's why they call 'em sub-woofers. You might be surprised at the results + more power for the sub's passband.

That's true but the port is rounded at the edge so that minimizes the noise significantly. The port seems rather large relative to the cabinet too.

Yep, flared ports are useful at reducing diffraction effects/smoother impedence matching. The potential, however, is that as linear excursion of the subwoofer increases, so does it's volumetric displacement. In a smaller box a greater volume is displaced (ceteris paribus).

According to my receiver and speaker manual, the biamping is perfectly suited for use with the A/B speaker set on the reciever. On page 4 it says this will reduce modulation distortion. I'm pretty sure the speakers were designed to benefit from being hooked up to a Yamaha receiver's A/B set.

Just because it can accommodate it, doesn't mean that you'll benefit by connecting two parallel connections (bi-wiring) to your speakers - given the caveats in my previous post. Speaker A/B switching is just that - switching two simultaneously connected speakers from the same amp outputs. If Yamaha are calling this bi-amping, then it's a sham.

Intermodulation distortion (IM), total harmonic distortion (THD), effective/apparent power, damping characteristics, etc, all improve with narrower band output. This is only useful for discrete amplifiers though. Eg for a stereo 2-way system, 4 power amps are required. Even in this scenario if your crossover isn't wired discretely, you're wasting your time. It's quite normal to find multi binding-post equipped speakers wired internally with a single pair of wires, or with discrete wires connected to a common -ve on the x-over pcb... I'm not suggesting this is the case with your gear.

It surely wouldn't hurt to biamp.

You're not bi-amping. However, very unlikely to damage anything in any case. Yamaha gear typically has very robust output stages. I haven't looked over the manual yet, but there will be mention of min speaker impedence with A/B & A+B speakers connected. Depending on the crossover topology & drivers, you may end up below eg 4 Ohms for a nominal 6 Ohm speaker. I doubt it, though. Yamaha does build things properly. If they say you can bi-wire, then everything will be discrete. I'm concerned about their bi-amping claim, though, maybe a typo...

Try stuff. Room acoustics & tastes differ as well as perceptions. If you like the result, go with it.

Addendum: Earlier I posted that you could use any left-over channels to try bi-amping. This is not a good idea for integrated multi-channel surround amps even though they may be rated at eg 7x100WRMS. Typically, only the front L/R channels are robust enough to cope with low impedence & high power output of main speakers. The rest are surround effects channels that don't like much abuse.

 

[stevem]

From P4 of manual above:

This speaker system is capable of bi-wired connections

Faith restored...

However...

This type of connection decreases the modulation distortion caused by electric resistance of the cables and driving current of the speakers. Consequently purer sound quality can be expected

BS. Perhaps, if you were running 25 Ohm bell wire over a 100ft distance... For the driver back emf & speaker cable resistance to have any acoustic effect, you'd have to be using extremely poor cables. Indeed, I bet you couldn't tell the difference between 20ga hookup wire & bi-wired silver foil litz on this setup... Seriously, bi-wiring was de-bunked >10yrs ago. How it is different to have a common connection on the back of the speaker box vs the back of the amp is beyond me...

 

[PC-Engine]

A thicker gauge cable may have a greater reactance thereby adding a conjugate filter network to your system.

You mean like 8 gauge? Or is 12 gauge too thick? Also can you expand on what a conujugate filter network will do to my system ie how it would affect the sound etc?

Nothing like a funky tone control

Haha well the receiver does have bass/treble control and those control 50Hz and 20kHz respectively, but that doesn't really help to tone down the shrillness in the vocals of some CD mixes. I'm also using the receiver's built-in parametric EQ which was set automatically by the YPAO room analyzer. The PEQ only applies to the center channel though.

IC. I just had a look at your pics. Nice leather couch. It's easy to forget much depends on room acoustics. My previous house had weird LF acoustics.

Yep and the YPAO helps out a lot and speeds up the setup tremendously.

http://www.yamaha.ca/av/technology/YPAO.jsp

Que? You've measured the position & incidence of standing waves...? Do you know how long a wavelength of 30Hz is?

Haha no, I just eyeballed it. For example instead of placing the sub completely parallel to the wall I turned it at a slight angle to minimize standing waves. It's not parallel to either side of the wall where it angles in the middle between the walls. The sub has a down firing woofer btw.

http://www.yamaha.ca/av/technology/QDBass.jsp

More point sources = more chances for standing waves/interference patterns. Your front L/R are good to 50Hz, try setting the sub below that. That's why they call 'em sub-woofers. You might be surprised at the results + more power for the sub's passband.

If I lower the x-over to 50Hz, how will this affect the sound better/worse? Keep in mind that my mains are not affected by the x-over point since they get the full spectrum all the way down to 20Hz since I've setup the reciever's bass management to output the LFE to *both* the sub and the mains instead of just the sub. Also my mains are parallel to the wall and the bass port on them are on the back of the speaker. OTOH the port on the sub is facing the listening position.

The potential, however, is that as linear excursion of the subwoofer increases, so does it's volumetric displacement. In a smaller box a greater volume is displaced (ceteris paribus).

True true hence the cool breeze haha.

I haven't looked over the manual yet, but there will be mention of min speaker impedence with A/B & A+B speakers connected. Depending on the crossover topology & drivers, you may end up below eg 4 Ohms for a nominal 6 Ohm speaker. I doubt it, though. Yamaha does build things properly. If they say you can bi-wire, then everything will be discrete. I'm concerned about their bi-amping claim, though, maybe a typo...

Yes the manual does mention this and I was a little concerned because it says if I use both set A and B simultaneously, each speaker has to be 8 ohms or higher. I'll probably contact Yamaha support just to make sure before I go ahead with the biwiring. Right now the reciever is set to 4 ohms minimum.

 

[stevem]

PC-Engine, I did not want to foist my idiosyncracies on you, rather just general comments on hi-fi folklore. eg super heavy gauge speaker cables are better than standard 16-18ga flex. In a sense these are sematic arguments in the quest for better sound/vision. There are many web pages on the subject.

You mean like 8 gauge? Or is 12 gauge too thick? Also can you expand on what a conujugate filter network will do to my system ie how it would affect the sound etc?

12ga is a good choice, but thick or thin doesn't generally matter in the context of home audio. 16ga flex can handle 110V@20A (2000W) without much saga. In a perfect world a cable will behave like a transmission line, neither adding nor subtracting from the signal. Unfortunately, depending on its construction (wire gauge, purity, stranded/solid core, strand shape/diameter, twist/braid pattern, insulator/jacket compostion, termination, etc), it may affect audio frequencies in a non-uniform manner due to reactance. A simple analogy. Think of a cable like an EQ, with everything flat being the optimum case. Cable reactance may not allow a flat responce - it behaves like a filter circuit (capacitor/inductor). It's conjugate in that it's coupled to the xover/speakers as far as the amp is concerned. Numerous "high end" cables introduce capacitance which can affect amplifier damping (speaker control). Extremely thick cables may also have stronger inductance. (Inductor=low pass. Capacitor=high pass). These effects are unpredictable, until measured, but I doubt that your cable is a problem. Just things to be aware of. Your issue is probably one of room acoustics.

the receiver does have bass/treble control and those control 50Hz and 20kHz respectively

They typically have have turnover frequencies around 350Hz & 3kHz with 10dB boost/cut. Think of it as inflection point control.

I'm also using the receiver's built-in parametric EQ which was set automatically by the YPAO room analyzer.

This is a trite point, but you have EQ of EQ. I'd set the DEQ230 to bypass or flat & use the auto-calibrate in the receiver to establish base levels. Then tweak the receiver to your preference. Final tweaks can then be made with the DEQ230 whenever you feel the need.

If I lower the x-over to 50Hz, how will this affect the sound better/worse?

That's the $64k Q... I don't know without being there. Try it and see. I suspect a less boomy sound (mid-bass) & the sub will work better as a sub. The reason most commercial subs go up to 150Hz is that small front channel speakers don't have a lot of LF extension. Also, the lower the sub xover, the more freedom you have to place it wherever you want.

Keep in mind that my mains are not affected by the x-over point ...

I'd try the fronts full spectrum & bring the sub in at a low xover point & adjust its gain. Also try crossing both the sub & front speakers @50Hz. This way you relieve the fronts & receiver from the hard work of LF extension, which is the sub's job. Also try lower, higher, & asymetric xover points. Speaker placement can be tricky with rear ports. Try 4" spacing from the rear wall. Also try toeing them in & stuffing the ports with a piece of dacron or similar. The sub can be hard to deal with. Try placing it at the back of the room. To get there, use XLR connectors if equipped, otherwise get a length of RG6 coax & connect some good RCA plugs (as you're a cable DIYer anyway ). Should cost you $10 tops. You make shorter segments for A/V interconnects that can dramatically reduce interference & be substantially better than the cheap packaged plugs. If your speakers/sub can be fitted with carpet spikes, try those. It should solidify the bottom end. If you have mostly hard/flat surfaces with no drapes or soft furnishings, then you can either use your EQ to reduce HF or try hanging a few rugs on the walls, etc.

Yes the manual does mention this and I was a little concerned ...

Don't worry. It's only an issue when driving low impedence speakers at high output level. Your amp should have overcurrent protection, but if you push it too hard it may clip prior to tripping. If you bi-wire, A & B are connected to different xover legs. eg A to HF/MF & B to LF. This should mean for a nominal 6 Ohm speaker that each leg also presents a 6 Ohm load just like being connected with a single cable. There's usually no impedence setting on solid state amps.

The argument for bi-wiring is that you can split the frequencies travelling down the cable to the woofer from those of the mid/tweeter (reduce modulation of HF from LF). You've got heaps of cable, so try it. This is further extended to use specialist HF & LF cables for each section. Of course, this pre-supposes that speaker cable is the limiting factor...

 

[Ty]

Yamaha's YPAO is generally pretty good (though I don't know how it stacks up to Marantz's or HK's version) but doesn't take into account (very) low frequencies. Still, it is supposed to do quite a decent job of getting you close. Almost as good as Pioneer's MCACC.

If you're serious about addressing certain issues I recommend getting an SPL meter and doing it the old fashioned way. One recommendation is the RatShack (analog) meter (especially if you perform the mod to it).

I'm not surprised you found music too shrill or bright with that set up. Yamaha's are a bit on the brighter side and definitely those speakers bring that out more. I don't recall how much you spent on the speakers but perhaps a swap for something on the warmer side?

Or you could swap out the receiver for something that is warmer or more musical such as the aforementioned HK or Marantz but that might blow your budget...I know it's kind of tough to create a decent HT setup with that much money.

I might also recommend staying away from that remote. The problem people have with remappable touchscreen remotes is that they lack the tactile feel so one must look at them to figure out what action you're performing. But remotes are pretty personal in taste so perhaps that won't be an issue. I recommend looking at the Harmony brand as they are easy to configure and are very easy to operate.

 

[PC-Engine]

12ga is a good choice, but thick or thin doesn't generally matter in the context of home audio.....These effects are unpredictable, until measured, but I doubt that your cable is a problem. Just things to be aware of. Your issue is probably one of room acoustics.

I'm pretty sure the cable isn't the problem either, because before I set up the new system, I used a pair of "premium HiFi speaker cables" from the old system that was being replaced. I did this just to see if I could hear any difference between the "premium HiFi speaker cable" and the bulk speaker cable. Once I confirmed any differences weren't audible, I wired all the speakers with bulk cable. Initially I was going to use the "premium HiFi speaker cable" for the mains only, but after I conducted the test I felt it wasn't necessary. Anyway it's probably room acoustics or just simply the bright nature of the Yamaha receiver. This reminds me of a review of one of Yamaha's EQs which showed a graph of the frequency response curve of the EQ when set to flat. The curve actually indicated that Yamaha purposely designed the EQ to have slight boost starting from IIRC 10khz and up which made it bright.

This is a trite point, but you have EQ of EQ. I'd set the DEQ230 to bypass or flat & use the auto-calibrate in the receiver to establish base levels. Then tweak the receiver to your preference. Final tweaks can then be made with the DEQ230 whenever you feel the need.

That's pretty much what I did. The first thing I did was run the YPAO to autoset the PEQ. After that I adjusted the bass and treble control on the receiver then finally tweaked it with the DEQ230D. The DEQ230D has no affect on the YPAO setup process since the test tones generated are from the receiver itself not DVD or CD.

Don't worry. It's only an issue when driving low impedence speakers at high output level. Your amp should have overcurrent protection, but if you push it too hard it may clip prior to tripping. If you bi-wire, A & B are connected to different xover legs. eg A to HF/MF & B to LF. This should mean for a nominal 6 Ohm speaker that each leg also presents a 6 Ohm load just like being connected with a single cable. There's usually no impedence setting on solid state amps.

I contacted Yamaha and they basically said the same thing as you, but your explanation is much more detailed:smile:, however my receiver does have a load setting, but it's already set to 4 Ohms min which was required anyway since I'm using 6 Ohm speakers.

I did some minor adjustments today to solve another problem that I had. The problem was that the source from DVD movies is louder than the source from CD music by a large margin. The reason being the CD source goes through the DEQ230D, but DVD movie sources bypasses the EQ. Since my own EQ curve has a louder net effect for most CD mixes, I had to attenuate the output from the DEQ230D. The DEQ230D has this very nice feature where you can store the output volume of *each* EQ curve memory. This facility allows you to lower the volume if your curve boosts the signal into clipping. It also has a global volume setting for ALL EQ curves. Anyway what I did was adjust the volume trim on the receiver for the DVD and CD inputs +6dB for CD and -6dB for DVD so now the two sources are very close in volume level.

Another adjustment I made was lowering the LFE volume level on the receiver while raising the volume on the sub itself. The reason why I needed to do this was because CD music didn't have enough bass and turning up the volume knob on the sub would increase bass for both music AND movies which I didn't want since the bass in movies were perfectly fine already. So I basically lowered the LFE output volume on the reciever end by 3dB and on the sub end turned the volume dial from an 11 o'clock position to a 12 noon position.

As an aside I'm using fairly good cables to connect the sub and components to one another. Most of them are THX certified Monster Cables and they were pretty cheap too $20 or less for each cable. Also later when I do the biwiring I'm going to attach some banana plug connectors to the wires to make it easier.

I'm not surprised you found music too shrill or bright with that set up. Yamaha's are a bit on the brighter side and definitely those speakers bring that out more. I don't recall how much you spent on the speakers but perhaps a swap for something on the warmer side?

Or you could swap out the receiver for something that is warmer or more musical such as the aforementioned HK or Marantz but that might blow your budget...I know it's kind of tough to create a decent HT setup with that much money.

I might also recommend staying away from that remote. The problem people have with remappable touchscreen remotes is that they lack the tactile feel so one must look at them to figure out what action you're performing. But remotes are pretty personal in taste so perhaps that won't be an issue. I recommend looking at the Harmony brand as they are easy to configure and are very easy to operate.

The receiver and speakers produce excellent sound after I tweaked it with the EQ. It sounds MUCH better than without the EQ. Without the EQ it still sounds very good but depends on the volume. With the EQ I could turn the volume to 0dB which is really loud and the music would still be perfect. Anyway the SPL meter is not really necessary since my problem was frequency response rather than trying to match the sound pressure levels of the individual speakers relative to their placement and room acoustics. All the speaker levels should be fairly equal after running the YPAO.

As to the RC, the absence of tactile feedback won't be an issue really because the main controls are physical buttons ie volume, channel, input, etc. I just wanted something that had a large lit screen and macro functions and customizations. The RC is really for my sister and her husband since they get confused with all the buttons from multiple remotes. It would be easier for them to push one button that has a custom macro programmed. Also I could get the RC for around $90 which is pretty cheap for what you're getting. Oh btw I might get the new AX-4000 which you can program with a PC instead of the AV-3100. Tough choice since the 4000 doesn't allow editing button labels.