The identify of the following user has been kept confidential... but I wanted to post this because (A) I got a good laugh out of it and (B) I think it is typical of the bantar that goes into these sort of decisions. But I thought some dialogue on such would be good because it addresses some of the issues and offers some insight, that indeed my parents aren't crazy--only the perception people have of the 360.
It is NOT an FPS only console or only for the hardcore. My points will show this.
If the "least" they get out of the 360 is more than the "best" they would get out of the Wii or PS3, then it is still the better option for them. But that isn't really up to you or me, but them. They made the purchase on their own. I didn't even know about it! We don't talk games or consoles to be quite honest. I mentioned some writing I had done on the processors in the 360 and PS3 a long while ago (my dad was surprised to know they had 3 and 8 processors, respectively, and a half GB of memory and modern GPUs far faster than his PC... this was back in early 2005 when we had this discussion). I had mentioned I wasn't going to get a Wii "just because it was Nintendo" like I did NES-SNES-N64-GCN because of the 3rd party situation and no-HD. And that is about it really. They know my best friend has an Xbox and 360 and I have mentioned wanting to do more stuff with him (he is in Seattle as well).
Not really.
They have on-demand HD movies as well as HD Cable and have had this available for years. They stopped renting movies like... 5 years ago? Everything with them is digital. They get all the new releases right over the cable. And they have a huge networked box for "tivod" stuff.
Some of us really have moved into the digital age. The idea of disks is quite... antiquated. They are outdated and a bother. And they will soon die, at least in some areas.
This is why I have always been much higher on digital distribution over BDR/HD DVD. I have already seen the future in regards to distribution. I was skeptical myself... until I saw how easy and painless it was. A couple clicks and bang! New release right on the TV. No going to the store or video rental place. No late fees, no hoping a new release is in, etc. BDR and HD DVD are doing a wonderful job of getting all this content into the HD format with modern codecs, but this ultimately lends themselves to digital distribution.
Anyhow, my parents have no interest in DVDs anymore, let alone more expensive BDR. They get it all over their cable. Why would they want to invest in a platform that is fragmented, more expensive, and lacks the convenience of their current delivery system?
The obsession with under-supported niche technologies as a fix-all for the mainstream consumer just makes me shake my head.
Sixaxis is a pretty lame implimentation for motion sensor. Just comparing the Wiimote and Numchuck shows all the issues. You have a traditional gamepad formfactor and are trying to do "intuitive" motion with it? The design doesn't lend itself to such--it is tacked on. And the number of games with poor Sixaxis controls pretty much emphasizes this.
That isn't to say that (A) there aren't titles that use it well or (B) it cannot be put to good use. But the number of great games that rely on it are... yeah.
The PS3 isn't focused on motion control like the Wii. It just isn't, nor does the design lend itself favorably to such. And why would a middleaged woman like Motorstorm? It is a competitive car game where cars explode. I might as well give her Gears of War while I am at it! It is a matter of mating the game with game design. Mario Kart with Sixaxis--yes. I would conceed such. But until my mother shows an affinity to teenage rush factor racers (hint: never has), then controls alone won't be enough to entice her.
The PS3/Sixaxis isn't some answer/replacement to the Wiimote. It a poor implimentation (motion sensing in a gamepad form factor?) that doesn't lend itself to Wiimote style games. And Sony has shown how important the Sixaxis is to the PS3 by the "robust" support it has as the primary and "better" control method for their premier games.
I like motion sensing. I would like to see a PC shooter support it because I think it would actually be fun. And the Sixaxis is decent in a number of titles, like Warhawk, depending on your taste. But the support and focus is totally lacking on the platform and it has failed to marry the "casual gaming" products to it.
The Wii, on the other hand, has robust support for the Wiimote and is totally focused on using it ton distinguish the products, and in some cases make for a better game than without. And this has revolved around the concept of making games accessible to the casual gamer with a rich library of "Mario Party" style games.
I know some of you really love Super Rub-a-Dub, but the typical feedback is: it stinks.
I couldn't in good conscieous suggest someone get a PS3/Sixaxis as a replacement for the Wii when their interest is motion based gaming. And based on the effort by Sony and the library of motion-centric games for casual gamers on the PS3... I just don't see how this would fit this demographic at all.
Ditto the EyeToy. Ok, it has 4 or 5 good games. But what if you only like 1 of those? I am a shooter fan, and of the 10 good-to-great shooters released in 2007 I liked maybe 2. People who buy something for a certain experience need a decent library of options to give the consumer a good selection of style and quality to choose from. Just because I like FPS doesn't mean I will like a Crysis or Halo 3.
How many are out now? How many are good? 0, and 0.
The 360 is getting MMOs as well... but seeing as how many MMOs bomb and fail to attract a community (which is essential) I don't think there is any safe bet at this time. The PC is the home of MMOs for now until MS/Sony can prove otherwise. My dad is picky anyhow, a Blizzard fan who didn't get excited about WoW.
Outside MMOs, he isn't a big RPG guy. He is interested in Mass Effect (due to setting and quality) but that is about it. As for RPGs... you are aware that the 360 is *killing* the PS3 in available RPGs, right? If he wanted RPGs he should get a 360!
On Oblivion... he didn't sound interested... but besides the GotY addition fixing some issues, the reality is of the 3 platforms the PC version is by FAR the best. The 360/PS3 versions are noticably worse! I know if I was picking one of the three I would take the PC version due to the mods. After that it really is a wash seeing as how Bethesda was able to up the resolution to 720p in the GotY addition and add some of the shader fixes to the 360 version.
As for the disk deal... Mass Effect and Oblivion are huge... and one disk. How many 360 games are on 3 or 4 disks.
Exactly.
The multidisk games, benefits of Sixaxis and Eyetoy, etc are all Sony sales points that have to this point really failed to materialize for real consumers.
While I didn't give them buying advice, I find it interesting that 2 years into next gen consoles with hundreds of games and services out in the market we are still debating potential benefits of a platform instead of what they offer to the consumer now, today.
For all I know they could bore of their console in 6 months. What is important is games and services they like today, not potential they may, or may not, experience down the road.
And the 360 has Rockband and Scene-It... circular discussion.
Besides having PCs in nearly every room in their house (none in the bathroom... yet) they, like many in their area, have those fancy cell phones with data service to browse the net. They even set up a WMC PC on their HDTV.
I guess if you can only have 1 product to do all these things the PS3 would be in the competition with the PC of various flavours (Windows, Linux, Mac), but as much as I am a fan of browsers, chat, etc with consoles there needs to be proper living room interfaces as well as a platform to leverage such. With Windows you at least can leverage your tools, apps, and current content setup with no adjustments.
And I am sure you recommend the trade in based not on available products and market conditions but on the potential of 100M sales of the PS3 and cool stuff it can do but has yet to materialize for consumers.
The reality is they bought it on their own months ago... which is surprising because they just asked the other day what games I would recommend. They live over 2,000 miles away and I don't own a 360 -- so I fail to see the relevance of your dig. Outside of the fact your are a platform evangalist through and through.
They bought what they wanted and are happy with it and using it.
While I still think a Wii would have been better suited for my mother for console games the fact is she is spending ALL her time on XBLA and is really, really enjoying it. It also offers a nice selection of single player and multiplayer games. But as a joint platform I don't think the Wii would have met my parents needs. The non-HD graphics would have been a turn off and there are zero games for my dad. He would play some Wii Sports or something with my mom, and that would be it. And Wii Sports, Mario Party, etc are NOT fun without other humans. And so it would sit... like everyone else who buys there Wii for such use. And as great as MP3, Mario, etc are they aren't her style of games. Mario Kart, yes, very much, but that isn't out yet. The library on the Wii is just too limited right now to make them both happy.
On the 360 they get the XBLA which has a ton of games and continues to grow and will eventually have a kick in the read from XNA. PSN has nothing on XBLA right now.
And as for actual console games the 360 is by far the riches platform for such. It has the most FPS. The most RPGs. The most Racing games. The most RTS games. It has the biggest library, the highest concentration of "good reviewed" games, and the largest budget library. It has the most robust online support, the most demos, and so forth. And the 360 has more exclusives.
Sure, it lacks motion control. But the PS3, although it has it, has very few games that use it well and no major releases that require it as the core experience. It lacks HD optical media--but it also has HD media on demand over Live in the market place. It has less storage space, but that hasn't materialized in games yet. And so far besides having the most games, the multiplatform games are typically the same or better on the 360.
Yes, these are biting points.
But I see no other fair response to the platform evangalism that is so narrow--and to think I preferred their purchase for personal reasons. If that was the case why would I entertain the arguement for the Wii, something I don't have strong plans to get (although over time I am warming to it because I like the Wiimote)?
I went through this same debate last generation with posters here: if I recommend something it is based on the consumer needs. I know some argued strongly you should ONLY recommend the largest platform, which was the PS2. I disagreed. I thought the GCN had a great family lineup and exclusive Nintendo games that made it a compelling buy for that segment of users. Likewise Live made the Xbox a very compelling purchase for gamers looking for online play.
The same rules still apply. The PS3 is a great product if you want an all in one device that does BDR, web browse, and has a good selection of multiplatform games with the promise of some great exclusives in 2008 and beyond. But there are many, many consumers/circumstances as of this time that dictate that consumers looking for motion control casual games, online centric gaming, the biggest library, etc should look elsewhere.
No one show fits one size this gen. And as dominant as the PS2 was, it wasn't the case last generation either.
I think everyone should get the console that meets their criteria. None meet mine as of this time, hence I still haven't bought one. So I don't get where people assume I am rooting for one platform when I haven't even been moved enough myself to hop on a certain side. Heck, I need a PC upgrade which may hold me over to BF3 anyhow (which means my life is over!). Sure, send me a free 360, PS3, Wii--I won't turn it down!
But it won't cloud my recommendations to others. Each platform has compelling sales points... just some more than others to various consumer segments.
/bitter rant
Now someone mail me a console so I can be biased! I know Sony/MS/Nintendo has their shills here, hook me up!! All for a good cause of course--family time with the ol' parents
It is NOT an FPS only console or only for the hardcore. My points will show this.
If the "least" they get out of the 360 is more than the "best" they would get out of the Wii or PS3, then it is still the better option for them. But that isn't really up to you or me, but them. They made the purchase on their own. I didn't even know about it! We don't talk games or consoles to be quite honest. I mentioned some writing I had done on the processors in the 360 and PS3 a long while ago (my dad was surprised to know they had 3 and 8 processors, respectively, and a half GB of memory and modern GPUs far faster than his PC... this was back in early 2005 when we had this discussion). I had mentioned I wasn't going to get a Wii "just because it was Nintendo" like I did NES-SNES-N64-GCN because of the 3rd party situation and no-HD. And that is about it really. They know my best friend has an Xbox and 360 and I have mentioned wanting to do more stuff with him (he is in Seattle as well).
Not really.
They have on-demand HD movies as well as HD Cable and have had this available for years. They stopped renting movies like... 5 years ago? Everything with them is digital. They get all the new releases right over the cable. And they have a huge networked box for "tivod" stuff.
Some of us really have moved into the digital age. The idea of disks is quite... antiquated. They are outdated and a bother. And they will soon die, at least in some areas.
This is why I have always been much higher on digital distribution over BDR/HD DVD. I have already seen the future in regards to distribution. I was skeptical myself... until I saw how easy and painless it was. A couple clicks and bang! New release right on the TV. No going to the store or video rental place. No late fees, no hoping a new release is in, etc. BDR and HD DVD are doing a wonderful job of getting all this content into the HD format with modern codecs, but this ultimately lends themselves to digital distribution.
Anyhow, my parents have no interest in DVDs anymore, let alone more expensive BDR. They get it all over their cable. Why would they want to invest in a platform that is fragmented, more expensive, and lacks the convenience of their current delivery system?
The obsession with under-supported niche technologies as a fix-all for the mainstream consumer just makes me shake my head.
Sixaxis is a pretty lame implimentation for motion sensor. Just comparing the Wiimote and Numchuck shows all the issues. You have a traditional gamepad formfactor and are trying to do "intuitive" motion with it? The design doesn't lend itself to such--it is tacked on. And the number of games with poor Sixaxis controls pretty much emphasizes this.
That isn't to say that (A) there aren't titles that use it well or (B) it cannot be put to good use. But the number of great games that rely on it are... yeah.
The PS3 isn't focused on motion control like the Wii. It just isn't, nor does the design lend itself favorably to such. And why would a middleaged woman like Motorstorm? It is a competitive car game where cars explode. I might as well give her Gears of War while I am at it! It is a matter of mating the game with game design. Mario Kart with Sixaxis--yes. I would conceed such. But until my mother shows an affinity to teenage rush factor racers (hint: never has), then controls alone won't be enough to entice her.
The PS3/Sixaxis isn't some answer/replacement to the Wiimote. It a poor implimentation (motion sensing in a gamepad form factor?) that doesn't lend itself to Wiimote style games. And Sony has shown how important the Sixaxis is to the PS3 by the "robust" support it has as the primary and "better" control method for their premier games.
I like motion sensing. I would like to see a PC shooter support it because I think it would actually be fun. And the Sixaxis is decent in a number of titles, like Warhawk, depending on your taste. But the support and focus is totally lacking on the platform and it has failed to marry the "casual gaming" products to it.
The Wii, on the other hand, has robust support for the Wiimote and is totally focused on using it ton distinguish the products, and in some cases make for a better game than without. And this has revolved around the concept of making games accessible to the casual gamer with a rich library of "Mario Party" style games.
I know some of you really love Super Rub-a-Dub, but the typical feedback is: it stinks.
I couldn't in good conscieous suggest someone get a PS3/Sixaxis as a replacement for the Wii when their interest is motion based gaming. And based on the effort by Sony and the library of motion-centric games for casual gamers on the PS3... I just don't see how this would fit this demographic at all.
Ditto the EyeToy. Ok, it has 4 or 5 good games. But what if you only like 1 of those? I am a shooter fan, and of the 10 good-to-great shooters released in 2007 I liked maybe 2. People who buy something for a certain experience need a decent library of options to give the consumer a good selection of style and quality to choose from. Just because I like FPS doesn't mean I will like a Crysis or Halo 3.
How many are out now? How many are good? 0, and 0.
The 360 is getting MMOs as well... but seeing as how many MMOs bomb and fail to attract a community (which is essential) I don't think there is any safe bet at this time. The PC is the home of MMOs for now until MS/Sony can prove otherwise. My dad is picky anyhow, a Blizzard fan who didn't get excited about WoW.
not to mention RPGs no doubt ending up 'more comfortable' when played from BluRay rather than 3 or 4 DVDs. He could enjoy Oblivion on both machines, but even that game isn't particularly worse on PS3.
Outside MMOs, he isn't a big RPG guy. He is interested in Mass Effect (due to setting and quality) but that is about it. As for RPGs... you are aware that the 360 is *killing* the PS3 in available RPGs, right? If he wanted RPGs he should get a 360!
On Oblivion... he didn't sound interested... but besides the GotY addition fixing some issues, the reality is of the 3 platforms the PC version is by FAR the best. The 360/PS3 versions are noticably worse! I know if I was picking one of the three I would take the PC version due to the mods. After that it really is a wash seeing as how Bethesda was able to up the resolution to 720p in the GotY addition and add some of the shader fixes to the 360 version.
As for the disk deal... Mass Effect and Oblivion are huge... and one disk. How many 360 games are on 3 or 4 disks.
Exactly.
The multidisk games, benefits of Sixaxis and Eyetoy, etc are all Sony sales points that have to this point really failed to materialize for real consumers.
While I didn't give them buying advice, I find it interesting that 2 years into next gen consoles with hundreds of games and services out in the market we are still debating potential benefits of a platform instead of what they offer to the consumer now, today.
For all I know they could bore of their console in 6 months. What is important is games and services they like today, not potential they may, or may not, experience down the road.
And the 360 has Rockband and Scene-It... circular discussion.
Besides having PCs in nearly every room in their house (none in the bathroom... yet) they, like many in their area, have those fancy cell phones with data service to browse the net. They even set up a WMC PC on their HDTV.
I guess if you can only have 1 product to do all these things the PS3 would be in the competition with the PC of various flavours (Windows, Linux, Mac), but as much as I am a fan of browsers, chat, etc with consoles there needs to be proper living room interfaces as well as a platform to leverage such. With Windows you at least can leverage your tools, apps, and current content setup with no adjustments.
Seriously, I would strongly recommend a trade in. But from what I've read so far, I'm sure you yourself would prefer them to have a 360.
And I am sure you recommend the trade in based not on available products and market conditions but on the potential of 100M sales of the PS3 and cool stuff it can do but has yet to materialize for consumers.
The reality is they bought it on their own months ago... which is surprising because they just asked the other day what games I would recommend. They live over 2,000 miles away and I don't own a 360 -- so I fail to see the relevance of your dig. Outside of the fact your are a platform evangalist through and through.
They bought what they wanted and are happy with it and using it.
While I still think a Wii would have been better suited for my mother for console games the fact is she is spending ALL her time on XBLA and is really, really enjoying it. It also offers a nice selection of single player and multiplayer games. But as a joint platform I don't think the Wii would have met my parents needs. The non-HD graphics would have been a turn off and there are zero games for my dad. He would play some Wii Sports or something with my mom, and that would be it. And Wii Sports, Mario Party, etc are NOT fun without other humans. And so it would sit... like everyone else who buys there Wii for such use. And as great as MP3, Mario, etc are they aren't her style of games. Mario Kart, yes, very much, but that isn't out yet. The library on the Wii is just too limited right now to make them both happy.
On the 360 they get the XBLA which has a ton of games and continues to grow and will eventually have a kick in the read from XNA. PSN has nothing on XBLA right now.
And as for actual console games the 360 is by far the riches platform for such. It has the most FPS. The most RPGs. The most Racing games. The most RTS games. It has the biggest library, the highest concentration of "good reviewed" games, and the largest budget library. It has the most robust online support, the most demos, and so forth. And the 360 has more exclusives.
Sure, it lacks motion control. But the PS3, although it has it, has very few games that use it well and no major releases that require it as the core experience. It lacks HD optical media--but it also has HD media on demand over Live in the market place. It has less storage space, but that hasn't materialized in games yet. And so far besides having the most games, the multiplatform games are typically the same or better on the 360.
Yes, these are biting points.
But I see no other fair response to the platform evangalism that is so narrow--and to think I preferred their purchase for personal reasons. If that was the case why would I entertain the arguement for the Wii, something I don't have strong plans to get (although over time I am warming to it because I like the Wiimote)?
I went through this same debate last generation with posters here: if I recommend something it is based on the consumer needs. I know some argued strongly you should ONLY recommend the largest platform, which was the PS2. I disagreed. I thought the GCN had a great family lineup and exclusive Nintendo games that made it a compelling buy for that segment of users. Likewise Live made the Xbox a very compelling purchase for gamers looking for online play.
The same rules still apply. The PS3 is a great product if you want an all in one device that does BDR, web browse, and has a good selection of multiplatform games with the promise of some great exclusives in 2008 and beyond. But there are many, many consumers/circumstances as of this time that dictate that consumers looking for motion control casual games, online centric gaming, the biggest library, etc should look elsewhere.
No one show fits one size this gen. And as dominant as the PS2 was, it wasn't the case last generation either.
I think everyone should get the console that meets their criteria. None meet mine as of this time, hence I still haven't bought one. So I don't get where people assume I am rooting for one platform when I haven't even been moved enough myself to hop on a certain side. Heck, I need a PC upgrade which may hold me over to BF3 anyhow (which means my life is over!). Sure, send me a free 360, PS3, Wii--I won't turn it down!
But it won't cloud my recommendations to others. Each platform has compelling sales points... just some more than others to various consumer segments.
/bitter rant
Now someone mail me a console so I can be biased! I know Sony/MS/Nintendo has their shills here, hook me up!! All for a good cause of course--family time with the ol' parents
