MS: "Xbox 360 More Powerful than PS3"

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Alpha_Spartan

Regular
""With Sony if they do hit the specs which they've said they'll have there's a debate, there's a couple of categories where they outdo us, there's several categories where we outdo them. On balance I think most people who study the space will tell you our system is slightly more powerful then theirs from a hardware standpoint.."


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Objectively speaking, is Microsoft right? Is there somethings PS3 does better and some things Xbox 360 does better?
 
Once you look past the PR bullshit, you'll recognise that different sets of hardware pose different trade-offs, different philosophies and different strengths. Does that answer your question?
 
Objectively speaking...without knowing final hardware specs we don't know.

Subjectively speaking I would guess that MS is half right: Each system will have its advantages and disadvantages over the other, but I'd guess that overall the PS3 will be seen as slightly more powerful.
 
Phil said:
Once you look past the PR bullshit, you'll recognise that different sets of hardware pose different trade-offs, different philosophies and different strengths. Does that answer your question?
Click to expand...
Okay, then let's get into detail with that then. I don't want to generalize but I get the sense that most people believe that the PS3 is more powerful by an order of magnitude or two over the Xbox 360 in every category when at best they're on the same level.

I've always stood by my point that the best looking Xbox 360 games will equal the best looking PS3 games.
 
Alpha_Spartan,

There's no point looking deeper into something that is quite obviously PR-bullshit. As I already said, different hardware poses different tradeoffs, different approaches and different strengths.

It's up to the developers and what they want to achieve with the hardware that will ultimately determine the "better" hardware, and that in itself will be very subjective. There are many areas where CELL/PS3 has a lot of potential that could yield advantages among very skilled developers - on the other hand, Xbox360 has other advantages that could result in very good results as well. It's an apples <-> orange comparasion anyway you look at it. I suggest you go back and read the other countless topics here at Beyond3d to form your own take and opinion on which you think will yield a higher advantage and is thus, in your opinion and by your definition, the "better" hardware.
 
i 'm not knowledgefull most of the time i just keep on reading on this forum.
but for me it seems that this have been debated lots of times.
At this point (not knowing a lot concerning the RSX) the Xbox could have a edge over the PS3 in AA and hdr (even if nvidia spoke a lot about this at E3) due to the extra-logic and bandwith provide by the EDRAM.
The PS3 seems a bit more powerfull for physic and other math heavy relatives tasks.
At this time nobody know if that power will be well used, every gamer hope lol

the main question about the PS3 at this time for me is not how much the cell is powerfull/efficient but do the 256MB of gddr3 and 128bit bus are enought?
It can be a bottleneck for the ps3...
but there is a lot of topic about this too (most are quite old SOny is good at keeping secret...RSX???????????)
 
Were they supposed to say "Hey, we just launched, but our system is less powerful than the one coming in the next half-year/year, that isn't too long a time, why don't you all wait for PS3!"

I think we know how much weight this carries.
 
I think in Nintendo's case, they readily concede that their system isn't as powerful as the competition. I think Sony did the same thing last generation. I don't think any manufacturer that knew that their system was noticably less capable than the competition didn't concede that this was the case.
 
Serenity Painted Death said:
Were they supposed to say "Hey, we just launched, but our system is less powerful than the one coming in the next half-year/year, that isn't too long a time, why don't you all wait for PS3!"

I think we know how much weight this carries.
Click to expand...
QFT :X
 
Alpha_Spartan said:
I think in Nintendo's case, they readily concede that their system isn't as powerful as the competition. I think Sony did the same thing last generation. I don't think any manufacturer that knew that their system was noticably less capable than the competition didn't concede that this was the case.
Click to expand...

People keep forgetting that when PS2 launched, Xbox was a rumor and GC a dream. PS2 launched with the Dreamcast as its main competitor, and they buried it in a spec war. Xbox and GC came 18 months later.
 
fearsomepirate said:
People keep forgetting that when PS2 launched, Xbox was a rumor and GC a dream. PS2 launched with the Dreamcast as its main competitor, and they buried it in a spec war. Xbox and GC came 18 months later.
Click to expand...

PR wise yes, but the first PS2 titles (for my taste) look very ugly against their dreamcast counterparts.

SoNY is very good at creating hype...
it is for me sony first strenght.
But i'm not saying that they keep on lying ;)
 
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edit:
I hadn't seen all the posts asking to let it go for now while typing this...don't mean to stir up trouble...ignore the post if it's a problem.
end edit:

I got the feeling this is going to turn into a fight in the long run but here's my 2 cents...

Cell:
200+ SP flops/25+ DP flops
LS faster than cache
512k cache for PPE alone
More on chip memory
More threads/cores
higher internal/external bandwith
access XDR and RSX/GDDR3 independently and simultaneously
SPEs->7 threads->2 instructions per clock per thread
PPE->2 threads->1 instruction per clock per thread or 2 intructions from 1 thread if one blocks

Xenon:
100+ SP flops/DP flops ?
1MB shared L2 cache
threading->6 threads->2 per core->1 instruction per thread per clock or 2 from 1 thread if one blocks for each core
Dot3/special directx instructions
large register file in VMX units-->handles two threads simultaneously
HW branch prediction
Bandwith to main memory shared with Xenos;limited to 10.8Gb/s read/write link speed between Xenos and itself.

RSX: (really unknown but G70 as a baseline 24 pixel pipes/ 8 vertex pipes)
24 pixel processors->48 ALUs->vec4+scalar->48 MADDs per clock
(^^^^MADDs less than 48 due to 1 ALU per shader proc performing texture ops)
8 vertex processors->8 ALUs(?)->1 vec4+scalar
16 ROPS->output 16 pixels per clock
bandwith to Vram not shared with CPU (GDDR3)
20Gb/s read 15Gb/s write link with Cell; does not consume Cell bandwith to main memory
SM3.0
shading resources dedicated
550Mhz->asynchronous clocks unknown but possibly all synchronous clock domains

*talk of 32/10 pipe part at 90 nm* IF true...
32 pixel procs->64 ALUs->so forth
10 vertex procs->10 ALUs->so forth

*again: G70 as a baseline with no tweakage on caches or special features/capabilities*

Xenos:
48 ALUs->vec4+scalar->48 MADDS->texture unit completely decoupled(?)
unified shaders->ALUs spread across pixel and vertex tasks(less than 48 available for pixel or vertex processing available at any time both pixel and vertex tasks are in the job queue;RSX greater theoretical ps processing yet seems comparable in real world terms while vertex processing seems Xenos's clear advange)
8 ROPS-->output 8 pixels per clock
ultra-threaded with smaller batch sizes
Better dynamic branching
tessellator
Memexport functionality
SM3.0+...err "++"...err...ok.
eDram

I see the PS3 as the more powerful in the overall for a number of reasons but I also don't see the X360 as being weak by any means. Probably got some of the finer details wrong but I don't think I'm crazy.
 
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liolio said:
PR wise yes, but the first PS2 titles (for my taste) look very ugly against their dreamcast counterparts.

SoNY is very good at creating hype...
it is for me sony first strenght.
But i'm not saying that they keep on lying ;)
Click to expand...

Art/Taste wise as you say, but madden/tekken tag/ rrv were spectacular looking for their time.(The US launch, I managed to see an import of japan's tekken tag and don't know what it was, but it actually looked like the h/w was actually creating super jags and the characters were breaking up literally like those black lines when you move them in paint . Far worse than even the lowest of 3rd party titles I've seen in US titles.)

PS:

I've always wondered something about the ps2, nowadays it's a nonissue. But in a few early games like I think it was Shadows of memories, and the infectionish survival horror title sony made amongst others there are a few times when the image quality becomes way way way bad.

I mean sometimes on ps2 you see cutscenes with excellent practically perfect iq, most high-end titles, but in some rare old games, it's not just a few jaggies here or there or some shimmering, everything in the entire screen becomes unstable and even with static camera angles and geometry gigantic jags begin actively wobbling with ever greater intensity even at angles where jags shouldn't occur(straight vertical or horizontal.), and mad shimmering starts to occur. It's quite crazy, and I've always wondered what h/w peculiarity could've caused such?
 
Can we just close this sucker before it spins out of control? :)

We know theres nothing else MS can say but this, and vice-versa. Before long the specs will be forgotten and all that will be left is the games and services.
 
"On balance I think most people who study the space will tell you our system is slightly more powerful then theirs from a hardware standpoint..""
'
That quote is cleverly worded. Basically he's claiming the 360 is more balanced not more powerful.
 
This is the second time MS say they are weaker, indirect. First Bill gates saying they might loose (and will play again), and now admitting ps3 is stronger on some levels.
 
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