MPAA sues Btefnet!

[Bigus Dickus]

since Doom3 and couple other games i wont buy a single game before i download it and play it for some time. then and ONLY then i will buy it.

Do you also steal cars off of dealer lots and drive them around for a few weeks, bringing them back in the middle of the night (or worse, dumping them) if you don't like them and sending anonymous payment if you do?

Do you open food in a grocery store and taste it, paying for it only if you like it?

Do you hire someone to cut your grass and then shaft them if you think they didn't meet your standards?

i am not going to fall for demos that are handpicked 10 mins of best in the game or payed reviews on internet also... after Doom3 got average og 95% in reviews that was the final drop.

If you don't think the demo accurately represents the quality of gameplay, don't buy the freakin game. Jesus man, no one is forcing you to buy anything.

second of all, not everybody can afford to go to shop and throw away $50 for some POS he will uninstall after 2 hours...

Not everyone can afford computers or consoles either. Not everyone can afford televisions. Not everyone can afford designer clothes. I certainly can't afford a Ferarri. That excuse gives none of us the right to steal.

if they want my money they better make good games.

What a fucked up self serving view of reality you have. Sheesh. No wonder this world is going to hell in a handbasket... damn selfish people that think they are entitled to things that are luxuries and privelages. How about taking a view that if they want your money again, they better make good games.

When I eat a taco at taco bell that is disgusting, I simply stop buying food from them. I don't begin stealing food from them continuously until I find something I decide I like, and then start buying that. When did you become so utterly warped?

and only way to know if its a good game is to download it and check for yourself

Damn moron. How about actually buying the game? If you don't like it, don't buy from that developer again. No one is forcing you to buy their games. If you want to benefit from the good ones, you take a gamble on the bad ones. Where did you get the idea that every single thing you purchase should have a satisfaction guarantee? I'm glad that some do, but you should have no expectation that this be a universal rule.

 

[digitalwanderer]

since Doom3 and couple other games i wont buy a single game before i download it and play it for some time. then and ONLY then i will buy it.

Do you also steal cars off of dealer lots and drive them around for a few weeks, bringing them back in the middle of the night (or worse, dumping them) if you don't like them and sending anonymous payment if you do?

Do you open food in a grocery store and taste it, paying for it only if you like it?

Do you hire someone to cut your grass and then shaft them if you think they didn't meet your standards?

I don't understand your comparisons, it ain't the same thing. In your examples the object/service is always something that is actually lost, in the case of "try before you buy" you're actually just protecting yourself from getting suckered by hype without taking anything actually away from the supplier.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

Haven't we covered this before?

If you return the car a few weeks later, does that prevent it from being theft? If you don't keep it after stealing it (and thus don't profit from it) but instead wreck it, does that prevent it from being theft?

You know, car dealerships could refuse to allow test drives too. Nowhere is that guaranteed as a "right." It is a privelage... a luxury provided by the dealerships because they believe it will produce more sales than making you test drive a friend's car or buy on faith alone.

Can you really blame software and entertainment developers from being a little more restrictive? Do you think car dealers would be so accomodating if you could run by your house and make a Xerox of the car for yourself?

The bottom line is that you purchase something or don't purchase something based on how the producer offers it. If he doesn't allow a "test period" that satisfies you, tough luck. Don't buy it. You have no right to the product other than in the way it is offered to you. Scared to try Burger King's new Western Super Cheese Onion burger? What... they didn't agree to give you one for free!?! Then don't fucking buy one.

 

[digitalwanderer]

The bottom line is that you purchase something or don't purchase something based on how the producer offers it. If he doesn't allow a "test period" that satisfies you, tough luck. Don't buy it. You have no right to the product other than in the way it is offered to you. Scared to try Burger King's new Western Super Cheese Onion burger? What... they didn't agree to give you one for free!?! Then don't fucking buy one.

Why? Why should I have to play by their rules if I don't want to and don't have to anymore?

That's why I do it I guess; I didn't like the rules so I changed them.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

Yeah, I decided the same thing. There are plenty of laws that didn't like, so I decided to not play by them either. Piss me off, and I'll spraypaint your car. I see no reason why that is wrong. Piss me off again, and I'm going to kill you. Works for me... screw everyone else.

Damnit I hate hypocritical liberals that accuse "right wingers" of being the greedy corporate bastards that don't care about the little man, while simultaneously being self-serving pigs that only want "entitlements" so that they don't have to actually earn anything, and break laws at will when it serves their own self-interests. The sad truth is that so many that claim to be altruistic and want to help "the common man" are really only in it for themselves.

You, digi, I find to be a disgusting hypocrit and a thief.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Yeah, I decided the same thing. There are plenty of laws that didn't like, so I decided to not play by them either. Piss me off, and I'll spraypaint your car. I see no reason why that is wrong. Piss me off again, and I'm going to kill you. Works for me... screw everyone else.

You can try and do all those things, but be ready to live with the repercussions of them.

Damnit I hate hypocritical liberals that accuse "right wingers" of being the greedy corporate bastards that don't care about the little man, while simultaneously being self-serving pigs that only want "entitlements" so that they don't have to actually earn anything, and break laws at will when it serves their own self-interests. The sad truth is that so many that claim to be altruistic and want to help "the common man" are really only in it for themselves.

When the heck did I ever be claiming to do this for anyone elses benefit? :?

You, digi, I find to be a disgusting hypocrit and a thief.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[silence]

Bigus....nice nick (compensating for something?).

You can play you games of high morale from your horse as much as you like, thing is that i would like you to come over here, take an average job here and then go of on your rants how its stealing.

For me it is more stealing when i am sucked into paying 1/5 of average local monthly salary for game that is piece of shit cause some company spent millions of $ into marketing. Which is why i will continue to do what i do. When you have to choose between things i have to choose and the way i have to choose, then we might talk on same level. Other then that you are just raving lunatic in my eyes.

You are aware that there are places where monthly salary is smaller then price tag on new game? And you expect them to do what exactlly?
So in your eyes they are thieves.....

Good, then come to such place and explain to them all about this issue.

As i said, i cant afford to go out and buy game based on 10 mins of handpicked gameplay, false (bribed) reviews and few screenshots.....

Call me what you want.... AFTER you do what i asked you to do.

 

[Frank]

If you return the car a few weeks later, does that prevent it from being theft? If you don't keep it after stealing it (and thus don't profit from it) but instead wreck it, does that prevent it from being theft?

If you take it away from them, it's still theft. If you want to use an example, use one that is comparable.

 

[Frank]

Damnit I hate hypocritical liberals that accuse "right wingers" of being the greedy corporate bastards that don't care about the little man, while simultaneously being self-serving pigs that only want "entitlements" so that they don't have to actually earn anything, and break laws at will when it serves their own self-interests. The sad truth is that so many that claim to be altruistic and want to help "the common man" are really only in it for themselves.

Gee. Do you have your own company? I do. Do you sell software or media? I do. Did you ever talk about things like this with the topmanagers of large companies? I do. Have you any idea how those managers talk and think about those issues? They just see their customers as potentional suckers and think of ways to get their money out of their pockets, and as much as possible into their own ones. They couldn't care less. They will just think of ways to do that which they think they can get away with. In other words: they're crooks who operate just inside the law. That's what made them successfull.

They would probably smile and give you a nice pat on the back, when they would have read this thread. And hope a lot of customers are as gullible as you. Customers shouldn't start thinking for themselves. It makes it harder to take their money away from them.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

For me it is more stealing when i am sucked into paying 1/5 of average local monthly salary for game that is piece of shit cause some company spent millions of $ into marketing. Which is why i will continue to do what i do.

If you were stealing food, I might have some level of understanding and sympathy. But you are stealing a luxury item.

You are aware that there are places where monthly salary is smaller then price tag on new game? And you expect them to do what exactlly?

Umm... not be able to buy the freaking game!?! Do you know just how patheticly selfish and criminal that argument sounds? Are you aware that there are places where the monthly salary is smaller than the price tag of a new diamond? And you expect them to do what, exactly?

As i said, i cant afford to go out and buy game based on 10 mins of handpicked gameplay, false (bribed) reviews and few screenshots.....

So you can't afford it. Fine. I can't afford lots of luxuries. Gives us no right to steal them. Why in the hell do you think you have a right to play good games?

 

[silence]

So you can't afford it. Fine. I can't afford lots of luxuries. Gives us no right to steal them. Why in the hell do you think you have a right to play good games?

my MONEY which pays them. why would i play garbage just cause they rapped it in nicely? and made hype over it?.....

its my money and i fucking have to work hard for it.... and i am not going to pay for piece of shit excatlly cause it is MY MONEY.

its morally wrong to check the game before you buy, but its OK to bribe websites and blackmail them by publisher for good reviews so i am tricked into buying some POS i will uninstall after 30 mins into the game, while paying premium price?
thats morally OK for you?

you are one fucking idiot.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

If you return the car a few weeks later, does that prevent it from being theft? If you don't keep it after stealing it (and thus don't profit from it) but instead wreck it, does that prevent it from being theft?

If you take it away from them, it's still theft. If you want to use an example, use one that is comparable.

For the tenth time, and try to get this through your selfish skull, what you take away when you steal something is the ability to profit from that thing. Go back a dozen posts or so and read where I went into depth about how "things" in our society only have value if they can be traded for other "things." When you remove someone's ability to trade his "thing" for something of equal value (e.g., money), you have taken something of value from him.

Stop focusing on the tangibles and look at effects. That's where the crime lies. Stealing information and stealing cars has the same end results, regardless of apparent differences which are really just shallow details.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

Gee. Do you have your own company?

Yes.

Do you sell software or media?

No, I sell physical products, services, and information.

And hope a lot of customers are as gullible as you. Customers shouldn't start thinking for themselves. It makes it harder to take their money away from them.

If thinking of a thief as an "independent thinker" and someone who doesn't just jump when told to jump makes you feel better, by all means please do. Plenty of other criminals can be thought of in the same way.

 

[Frank]

Stop focusing on the tangibles and look at effects. That's where the crime lies. Stealing information and stealing cars has the same end results, regardless of apparent differences which are really just shallow details.

Like, it is ok for any salesperson to sell you a product under false premises, like a second-hand car that doesn't work, but with the small print clearly stating you have no right on a refund or even a functional car, it only having collectors value. You just bought it as-is, and got suckered.

So, you say: "Fine! Part of the game! He is a business person and I am a customer, so he is right and I am automatically a bad person when I complain. It's my own fault, you cannot have luck with all your purcases. I'll just won't buy a car there next time!"

 

[Bigus Dickus]

its my money and i fucking have to work hard for it.... and i am not going to pay for piece of shit excatlly cause it is MY MONEY.

Then don't buy it. If you have worked hard for your money, don't have much of it, value it greatly, and don't think the cost of a game is worth the benefit received (and the cost/benefit considerations should absolutely include the risk of the game being a POS vs. it being a really great one), then don't freaking buy it. You think the cost/benefit is in your favor when you steal it only because you have reduced the cost to zero and/or artificially raised the benifit.

You don't make the product, you don't get to set the rules.

its morally wrong to check the game before you buy, but its OK to bribe websites and blackmail them by publisher for good reviews so i am tricked into buying some POS i will uninstall after 30 mins into the game, while paying premium price?
thats morally OK for you?

First, not once have I hinted at such a thing. Though this is beyond the topic of this thread, I'm also a big consumer advocate (as contradictory as you may find that) and believe that marketing practices globally have become criminal in many cases.

But two wrongs do not make a right. Your dilemma is no justification for theft.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

Like, it is ok for any salesperson to sell you a product under false premises, like a second-hand car that doesn't work, but with the small print clearly stating you have no right on a refund or even a functional car, it only having collectors value. You just bought it as-is, and got suckered.

So, you say: "Fine! Part of the game! He is a business person and I am a customer, so he is right and I am automatically a bad person when I complain. It's my own fault, you cannot have luck with all your purcases. I'll just won't buy a car there next time!"

See the above post. While I believe such a shady practice would/should be criminal, and would be in favor of stronger consumer protection legislation that prohibited such behavior, I still understand that this possibility gives me no right to steal a car from said dealer.

 

[silence]

First, not once have I hinted at such a thing. Though this is beyond the topic of this thread, I'm also a big consumer advocate (as contradictory as you may find that) and believe that marketing practices globally have become criminal in many cases.

But two wrongs do not make a right. Your dilemma is no justification for theft.

i have no dilemma.
as i said, i DLed 5-6 games last month, tried them and uninstalled them from my computer after playing maybe an hour of each.... they simply were POS which i wouldnt like to buy.....
some of them had 85-90 ratings on certain websites. they were also very well marketed and sold in really pretty boxes.

but when i tried what they really are i saw its not what i want to spend my money on..... simple.....
i uninstalled them and deleted downloaded files... i didnt burn them, gave them to someone or something like that, i just wanted to see what i am REALLY gonna get IF i pay price tag on them in store....

when i saw whats there.... i decided not to buy....

very simple. you can call it theft, i just call it being smart enough not to waste my money on garbage.

 

[Frank]

See the above post. While I believe such a shady practice would/should be criminal, and would be in favor of stronger consumer protection legislation that prohibited such behavior, I still understand that this possibility gives me no right to steal a car from said dealer.

Ok, so while you think companies should be a bit more fair, as a business person you just want your customers to shut up and hand you the money. This whole discussion irritates you enormously, because you totally understand why the media corporations behave like they do. You would be mightily pissed and threaten them with lawsuits as well if people made do with free alternatives instead of buying your products.

I'm glad that's clear.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

i have no dilemma.

Your dilemma was to either commit a criminal act in response to what you feel is a criminal act, or to do without the luxury item in question and use legal methods to voice your disapproval.

You chose the criminal route. Fine... many vigilantes choose the same route. Just call it what it is. Don't shovel us bullshit and call it sugar.

 

[silence]

i guess i picked the dark side of the force.....(this answer goes nicely with my current DL)