More Xenon rumors
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Terrain demos with no textures *and* no polygons?? :?
Spong and The Inq were mentioned. Enough for me.
Spong and The Inq were mentioned. Enough for me.
Nothing new to see in that thread... It's old and/or stuff we've already argued and fought over here. 
quote:
Xenon - More info from the Doc's
>> More info gleamed from the Leaked Docs that you might find of interest...
- The Xenon Controllers will vary only slighty fronm the current models with a noted migration of the Black and White buttons to Left and Right Flipper Positions.
- Kits for Xenon Developement have double the amount of memory that the final console will have.
- Developers have been told that Live Games under Xenon will not be able to assume that a hard disk is present (at this time a decision to include a native built in hard drive had not been made) SAme developers have been told that Launch Titles for Xenon should not presume a HD is present either. They've also been told that there will be persistant storage on the majority of units.
- Interestingly enough.. Dev kits will have 80Gb or larger HD's.
- People who love speed.. will be happy to know that geometry processing is approx. 100x faster for shader performance, while memory bandwidth has been improved by 4x over the original Xbox.
- Media for the games.. a DVD variant (UDF 2.0 or higher) dual layer with at last 7GB across 2 3.5GB layers and might include support for multi game disks.
- People playing on Live on an Xbox will be ablbe to message and communicate and do other community activities with their newer Xenon friends. Live will also host persistant data for games.
- Code is being added to allow better control for developers and publishers to limit where a game can be played via localizations strings. Expect multiple version of the same game.. for differnet regions.
- Expect Beta Hardware and Software to be in the devs hands in Q1 of 2005.
Xenon - More info from the Doc's
>> More info gleamed from the Leaked Docs that you might find of interest...
- The Xenon Controllers will vary only slighty fronm the current models with a noted migration of the Black and White buttons to Left and Right Flipper Positions.
- Kits for Xenon Developement have double the amount of memory that the final console will have.
- Developers have been told that Live Games under Xenon will not be able to assume that a hard disk is present (at this time a decision to include a native built in hard drive had not been made) SAme developers have been told that Launch Titles for Xenon should not presume a HD is present either. They've also been told that there will be persistant storage on the majority of units.
- Interestingly enough.. Dev kits will have 80Gb or larger HD's.
- People who love speed.. will be happy to know that geometry processing is approx. 100x faster for shader performance, while memory bandwidth has been improved by 4x over the original Xbox.
- Media for the games.. a DVD variant (UDF 2.0 or higher) dual layer with at last 7GB across 2 3.5GB layers and might include support for multi game disks.
- People playing on Live on an Xbox will be ablbe to message and communicate and do other community activities with their newer Xenon friends. Live will also host persistant data for games.
- Code is being added to allow better control for developers and publishers to limit where a game can be played via localizations strings. Expect multiple version of the same game.. for differnet regions.
- Expect Beta Hardware and Software to be in the devs hands in Q1 of 2005.
london-boy said:
So like the nvidia nalu demo?
"- People who love speed.. will be happy to know that geometry processing is approx. 100x faster for shader performance, while memory bandwidth has been improved by 4x over the original Xbox. "
Ew...so from 6.4GB to 25.6GB? Bandwidth of like a radeon x800 pro, yet this thing could be two generations beyond, and once again shared among the entire system, with 6 cpu cores each taking up 2GB each? Oh well, maybe approximately radeon 9700pro bandwidth for the gpu is fine for 640x480. The smaller amount of pixel pipelines seems to hurt a 9600's performance and not the 128bit memory bus.
Megadrive1988
Veteran
the last post at the bottem contains mostly new info, I think anyway.
Megadrive1988
Veteran
I've been thinking. the main Xenon specs we are seeing seem 2-4x lower than what one would expect from a nextgen console
i.e:
22+ GB/sec main memory bandwidth
500 million vertices/sec
8 pipes
4 Gpixels/sec
10 MB eDRAM
the real spec, IMHO, should be 2x to 4x higher in most cases. I would think MS could easily have everything doubled or in some cases quadrupaled. what are the chances that these Xenon specs are just to throw SONY off guard? I'm sure this has been brought up before, but my short term memory sucks....
i.e:
22+ GB/sec main memory bandwidth
500 million vertices/sec
8 pipes
4 Gpixels/sec
10 MB eDRAM
the real spec, IMHO, should be 2x to 4x higher in most cases. I would think MS could easily have everything doubled or in some cases quadrupaled. what are the chances that these Xenon specs are just to throw SONY off guard? I'm sure this has been brought up before, but my short term memory sucks....
500M Verts is the the graphics pipeline only, not the system specification, AFAIK.
Panajev2001a
Veteran
DaveBaumann said:
How do you feel about the 48 Shader ALUs ?
According to the document leaked ( the text one too ) each can do 1 Vec op and 1 Scalar op. Is it enough for you ?
Well, one thing I don't know if whether thats a full vector op and scalar (i.e. 4 component ops and a scalar) or not. Onther element to consider is whether all the ALU's in the pipeline have the same capabilities as one another, which given the unified method one would assume they have to be - this is not something we've seen in the desktop space yet since although we have 32 ALU's they have not all been of the same capablities.
So, on the whole I think 48 ALU's should be fairly powerful. As I mentioned previously, the biggest element of this is not necessarily the quantity of ALU's, but the scheduler and how well it can opporunistically fill instruction slots and keep pipeline bubbles to a minimum - get it right and you can end up in greater efficiencies than we've seen in traditional pipelines, get it wrond and it could be much worse. IMO this is probably the area that the most work has been going in to since the original R400.
So, on the whole I think 48 ALU's should be fairly powerful. As I mentioned previously, the biggest element of this is not necessarily the quantity of ALU's, but the scheduler and how well it can opporunistically fill instruction slots and keep pipeline bubbles to a minimum - get it right and you can end up in greater efficiencies than we've seen in traditional pipelines, get it wrond and it could be much worse. IMO this is probably the area that the most work has been going in to since the original R400.
Megadrive1988
Veteran
meaning the GPU alone, not counting what the CPUs and the entire system can do as a whole, right?
DaveBaumann said:
So the super XCPU2 will have to handle a big part of the transformations... (A really big part if the 500M verts is a real and definitive info)
Megadrive1988 said:
The chances? Slim and none... IMO
Sony, and more of all Ken Kutaragi (a.k.a Katuragi Ken...
) have quite clear objectives/ideas, and the billions Sony spend on it prove that they want to create a beast... Will they succed? That's the question, but i'm almost certain that MS moves have no influences in regard to the PS3 design (and if it have some influence, it will be about the amount of Ram, etc... Not the main design)Some people here seem to be questioning the lower specs of the system, but it seems reasonable to me. Given how much is dependent on the Graphics chip/memory these days, it's going to be tough to make a console that costs ~$400 compete with a computer containing a graphics card that alone costs the same price. It'll be interesting to see how all of the next gen consoles compare to computers of the same era.
Nite_Hawk
Nite_Hawk
"Lower" specs? This is NOT a low-spec system. Jesus, what it takes to satisfy people these days??? Or should I say satisfy f-bois?
Guden Oden said:"Lower" specs? This is NOT a low-spec system. Jesus, what it takes to satisfy people these days??? Or should I say satisfy f-bois?
Some people don't understand these specs because other companys are claiming really high numbers (like 1 tflop) . So people think these are to low while these may just be specs that can be achived
Uh...Vysez said:
Current XBox can theoretically break 100MVert running the absolute minimum (transform only) - 4 vector ops/vertex.
These Xenon spec would give peak 500Mvert at 48 vector ops/vertex.
Or how about this one - PS2's "monster fillrate" GS manages about 2.4 vector arithmetic ops/pixel running at comparable 500MPixel speed...
Guden Oden said:"Lower" specs? This is NOT a low-spec system. Jesus, what it takes to satisfy people these days??? Or should I say satisfy f-bois?
Sure, lower specs. When current top end videocards are pushing a memory throughput of ~36GB/s, and a next generation console that won't be out for atleast a year is talking about ~26GB/s, (less than 3/4th the throughput.) it makes sense to say it's got lower specs. (Granted, there are other areas where it has higher specs than what is available today too.). At this point the memory throughput is already lower than what is available on the PC currently. We'll have to wait and see what kind of CPU/GPU power is available when the xbox2 comes out and compare it then. If they want to keep the system price low (~$400), I don't see it really being that competative to the top end PC parts at the time.
Nite_Hawk
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