Which is why I would assume Sony has been rather quiet on the PR. You would have expected them to go on a PR overdrive to defend their position with the Pro, but they haven't really. Because they know that the new xBox will only help the rather messy state of affairs of Pro enhanced games. Which will ultimately mean more Pro sales, better games etc etc
Mixed Information on Consoles or How I learned to loathe PR *spin off*
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Maybe because the lack of power? Checkerboarding is the easy way out when things become mathematically impossible at native 4k with a decent level of graphical settings.
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I discovered last summer that 1440p is the sweet spot for me. 1440p and a little AA looks no different to native 4K from my PC on my 4K Bravia, and I've run everything in 1440p for a year - even when the hardware can do 4K/60fps - I'd rather the 1080 run a little cooler.
Surely it's easier to just max the res (and possibly hit 2160p) of an XO game with XO settings on 1X than to implement checkerboarding.
If checkerboarding is implemented in the engine already, then the work required is obviously less to use it than having to retrofit it.
I don't think checkerboarding has come about because of 4Pro being weak, we had already started seeing engines start to use checkerboarding (or some other smart rending) on PS4 and XO.
The fact that it has ID Buffer support though has definitely helped it.
1X supports checkerboarding, what that support actually looks like no one knows, may not be any more than XO or PS4.
My question is does the ID Buffer only help with performance, and ease of development, or does it actually help with IQ (may help track temporal information better?), and if so how much compared to without?
Could a 4Pro CB image look better than a 1X CB image (if there is no additional hardware in 1X)?
If checkerboarding is implemented in the engine already, then the work required is obviously less to use it than having to retrofit it.
I don't think checkerboarding has come about because of 4Pro being weak, we had already started seeing engines start to use checkerboarding (or some other smart rending) on PS4 and XO.
The fact that it has ID Buffer support though has definitely helped it.
1X supports checkerboarding, what that support actually looks like no one knows, may not be any more than XO or PS4.
My question is does the ID Buffer only help with performance, and ease of development, or does it actually help with IQ (may help track temporal information better?), and if so how much compared to without?
Could a 4Pro CB image look better than a 1X CB image (if there is no additional hardware in 1X)?
From Watch Dogs 2 on PC
Native 4K: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4277/35322592935_af68b7316a_o.png
CBR 4K: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4280/35282585816_d6329bbc89_o.png
The vram footprint doesn't change much between the two but you see an increase of almost 30% in fps (62 in CBR, 48 native).
Native 4K: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4277/35322592935_af68b7316a_o.png
CBR 4K: https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4280/35282585816_d6329bbc89_o.png
The vram footprint doesn't change much between the two but you see an increase of almost 30% in fps (62 in CBR, 48 native).
Textures are same size and not different, framebuffer is same size, so I'm not surprised that memory footprint is the same. Well in this case very close.
CBR is all about improved rendering speed/performance at a reasonable IQ.
This is my understanding anyway.
Can the ID Buffer be replicated in shaders, obviously at a cost?
Spencer has said:
You think that is appropriate? He is slinging mud and not being honest about his own console. I know people love the war, but let's hold these console heads to some standard that is slightly above politicians.
I'd be curious to see a comparison between
1600x1800 checkerboard upscaled to 4K
1328x2160 checkerboard upscaled to 4K (anamorphic)
given a similar resolution situation in last gen for BLOPS2 vs the previous COD games.
1024*600 2xMSAA upscaled to 720p
880x720 2xMSAA upscaled to 720p
Obviously, the CB would be starting from a less than ideal position with temporal artefacts & camera movement, but that's already something to take into account already. At the end of the day, the goal is a cleaner image for the stable condition.
Another comparison might be scaling the two checkerboard situations there to 1080p (1080p TVs), where 1600x1800 base might offer the better trade-off in motion. Or just do 1920x1440 (cb to 3840x1440 for kicks, anamorphic) & downscale for 1080p TVs? Complicated?
edit:
Assuming target of ~2.8 MP per frame.
1600x1800 checkerboard upscaled to 4K
1328x2160 checkerboard upscaled to 4K (anamorphic)
given a similar resolution situation in last gen for BLOPS2 vs the previous COD games.
1024*600 2xMSAA upscaled to 720p
880x720 2xMSAA upscaled to 720p
Obviously, the CB would be starting from a less than ideal position with temporal artefacts & camera movement, but that's already something to take into account already. At the end of the day, the goal is a cleaner image for the stable condition.
Another comparison might be scaling the two checkerboard situations there to 1080p (1080p TVs), where 1600x1800 base might offer the better trade-off in motion. Or just do 1920x1440 (cb to 3840x1440 for kicks, anamorphic) & downscale for 1080p TVs? Complicated?
edit:
Assuming target of ~2.8 MP per frame.
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I believe the sport games will be given they are on pro. hopefully CBR will offer some better draw distances and other visual flourishes, just base visuals at 4K seems like the raw deal to me, even if they are "native"
yup, they just say this...No, that's wrong.
This is the branding.
4K Ultra HD may be just a 2160p frame buffer, but True 4K is native and only native 4K. That's why they make the distinction.
Feel true power is not the same as everything being true 4k. True 4k is 4 1080p screens = 1 4K screen, so the most demanding games should be set at medium settings on consoles and run them at 4k.
Destiny 2 probably. I've explained many times why native 4k wouldn't make much sense for third parties but nobody listened. At least I can now say, I told you so
Why would you waste the X1X on rendering twice the pixels per frame instead of rendering a "prettier" frame with CBR and more advanced visual settings?
4pro owners should be glad that a game on 1X is CB, as it means it will also be on the 4pro, and visa versa.
if the engine supports CB i don't expect one machine to use it and another not to.
CB will also improve in time i suspect, but if it really bothers you extremely, like some people could not stand upscaling/non native resolution then you may need to go the PC route where the studios are willing to allow gamers to brute force it. Not trying to sound like a dick, just what i think, as CB and other methods are only going to increase in the console space, and possibly given as options to PC.
I'm definitely expecting most big in house multiplat engines to use CB at some point.
if the engine supports CB i don't expect one machine to use it and another not to.
CB will also improve in time i suspect, but if it really bothers you extremely, like some people could not stand upscaling/non native resolution then you may need to go the PC route where the studios are willing to allow gamers to brute force it. Not trying to sound like a dick, just what i think, as CB and other methods are only going to increase in the console space, and possibly given as options to PC.
I'm definitely expecting most big in house multiplat engines to use CB at some point.
i don't think anybody claimed otherwise.
but that doesn't mean every engine will have CB.
also it's not 4k native or CB.
It will be very interesting to see what the performance delta is given the lack of id buffer and rpm on the One X.
workarounds have been claimed, but at what cost to thoes 6tf
the extra aliasing gives it away but it's not easy to spot the difference at first sight, unlike in other games
I'd bet at launch the number of Xbox one X titles at native 4K will heavily outweigh the number of 4Kc. Simply because I doubt the pubs of many of those 30+ titles confirmed for a post 4K patch are willing to invest in some CB solution for free. But I also think it will remain that way for awhile.
CB benefits are obvious but how much effort (cost to pub) does it take to implement and make performant?
I ask because while the PS4 Pro was designed with CB in mind and while it seems some aren't all that positive about associating the Pro with native 4K. There are plenty of native 4K titles on the Pro and far more than CB titles. CB seems to be limited to just high budget AAA games.
CB benefits are obvious but how much effort (cost to pub) does it take to implement and make performant?
I ask because while the PS4 Pro was designed with CB in mind and while it seems some aren't all that positive about associating the Pro with native 4K. There are plenty of native 4K titles on the Pro and far more than CB titles. CB seems to be limited to just high budget AAA games.