Minecraft, Rocket League, Fortnite, etc CrossPlay on every Platform but Sony because...

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by iroboto, Jun 13, 2017.

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  1. ToTTenTranz

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    I didn't present an opinion on the validity of the complaints, only that Take Two and Rockstar are in a PR crisis since June 14. Also, that article releasing 4 days later comes off a bit fishy.

    Though if we are going that way, am I really the one who should dig a little deeper? The article in your post went online literally 10 minutes before you pressed the "post reply" button, yet the online outrage started 5 days ago.
    The reason for the outrage was the cease and desist letter Take Two sent to the OpenIV toolkit creators, which weren't making money out of it and said toolkit didn't even touch the online portion of the game. Furthermore:

    Regardless, why do you always need to jump on the defense of corporations whenever there's even a hint of a corporation vs. consumer debacle, SB?
    IIRC, you absolutely loved Xbone's originally planned always-online DRM, blocking game resales/lending and even the mandatory turned-on Kinect. And now it's Take Two who's in the right for sending a C&D letter without previous explanation to the tool creators that helped them sell an additional hundreds of thousands of GTAIV/V copies, in exchange for nothing.
    Out of curiosity, are you also in Zenimax's/Bethesda's side regarding paid mods?


    And if so, why wouldn't you be on Sony's side for not allowing multi-platform multiplayer? Anyone who wants to play with their friends who have a Playstation will need to buy a Playstation too. There's probably a larger chance of anyone's friends to be playing on a PS4 than the ones with a PC+Xbone+Switch combined, so all the more money to Sony, right? Isn't corporations making big money (at the cost of consumer choice) a good thing for this specific case?
     
  2. Silent_Buddha

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    I dislike misinformation. And the outrage over Take 2 and Rockstar Games attempting to protect their users is the height of misinformation. I used that BBC article as I hadn't bothered to look into it prior to you bringing it up since I don't play GTA V but I was interested in what was going on, hence looking to see what the kerfuffle was about. I also used the BBC as it's generally regarded as a credible source versus some random website on the internet. BTW - here is Rockstar's official comment on whole thing.

    They still want single player mods to be available to owners of GTA V. But not when it is one of the sources of harm and harassment of owners of GTA V regardless of whether it was created with harassment in mind. This should be quite obvious by how much they endorsed Open IV up until malicious mods started to be enabled by it, which I'm sure is an unforeseen and unintended application of Open IV by its creators.

    As to the Zenimax/Bethesda thing, despite me often not liking many of their practices, I'm not against it after hearing what TotalBiscuit had to say about it. He's friends with some mod makers and talks to a lot of independent developers and mod makers. And he's quite vocal about blasting developers or publishers when they do something anti-consumer. Which is what he did with the previous attempt by Bethesda to offer mods for purchase.

    Mod makers pretty much don't make any money from their mods despite spending hundreds and thousands of hours creating some of them. Internet warriors love to claim that they can make plenty of money from donations. However, when TB asked one of the highest rated mod makers for Fallout 4 how much they make from donations? Almost nothing was the reply.

    There is nothing preventing Mod makers from continuing to release free mods. Bethesda isn't going to stop supporting it or do anything to discourage mod makers from releasing their mods for free. Additionally, any mod that currently exists cannot be made into a paid mod. Any mod that is submitted for potential partnership with Bethesda to be turned into a paid product must be completely new and not include anything that currently exists in a free mod. IE - only newly created mods that are in some way unique are applicable.

    This is a far cry from what Bethesda tried to pull with their previous attempt where they went and made free mods into paid mods. That one I had a lot of misgivings about, although I felt then, as I do now, that mod maker's should have the opportunity to profit from their mods.

    I suppose you are against mod makers having the opportunity to profit from their work and instead think all mod makers should be forced to release their mods for free?

    How is that in any way reflective of my posting history? I dislike exclusives because it prevents everyone from having a chance to experience a game if it they want. I've been a hugely on MS's side ever since they started to push for all XBO titles to appear in Windows form as well, and hugely critical of Sony for actively trying to prevent 3rd party exclusives from appearing on PC, thankfully not successful in all cases. I jumped right in and cheered anything that enabled cross-platform play.

    I haven't been shy about advocating that people should be free to experience something however they wish to. I've defended PC gaming and I've defended console gaming. I've defended Sony in the past and blasted Sony in the past. I've defended Microsoft in the past and I've blasted Microsoft in the past (just look at some of my recent posts about Edge or Windows 10 when it launched). Edge is still a piece of hot garbage, BTW.

    Hell, I will not buy anything from EA because I despise some of their practices on PC, but I still don't let that prevent me from trying to judge their actions objectively. EA Access is a great thing with huge benefits for the average consumer, for example.

    Regards,
    SB
     
    #102 Silent_Buddha, Jun 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017
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  3. Scott_Arm

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    Rocket League would not require PSN users to create Xbox Live accounts, at least that's not how the Rocket League creators describe it. They already allow Steam users to play with Xbox players across networks. No need for Steam players to create Xbox Live accounts.

    Here's a link with some details of the situation https://www.polygon.com/e3/2017/6/13/15795376/rocket-league-cross-platform-playstation-4
     
    #103 Scott_Arm, Jun 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2017
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  4. chris1515

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    I know I said the first problem is not a mandatory Xbox live account. It is cross play Sony is the leader they want to keep the network effect... They authorize PC cross play because they don't see the PC as a huge concurrent...

    Creating an Xbox account is just an additional problem with Minecraft...
     
  5. Scott_Arm

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  6. Silent_Buddha

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    Here's the thing. Sony's excuse is so laughable that I wonder if there is anyone in the world that actually believes it?

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/15/15807138/sony-playstation-cross-network-play-xbox-block-response

    Everyone knows the real reason which that article posits.

    If you are in the position of power, there is no reason for you to do anything that is consumer friendly if it doesn't directly benefit your business in some way. As the article states, if MS were in Sony's position right now they would also likely block cross play with rival consoles. Although, I have a feeling Phil would still fight for crossplay but would get blocked by higher management. But perhaps I'm overly naïve.

    Are Sony so desperate to try to remain on the gamer's good side that they'd resort to such a laughable excuse? While there'd be some token backlash if they'd just come out and said that it would make no business sense to support crossplay with rival platform, it'd be nothing compared to just lying about the reasons and claiming they are trying to protect people from the evils that exist on networks that aren't PSN.

    Even more laughable as they are implying that Nintendo, the most family friendly console maker of the big 3, aren't interested in promoting a family friendly environment since they are allowing crossplay in Minecraft. Or that Microsoft aren't doing anything to protect Minecraft users on their platform.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  7. Shortbread

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    I have been modding the GTA series since GTA 3. One of the great things I love about PC gaming. As of now, I have over 150 modded police vehicles, 200 civilian cars, 120 motorbikes/motorcycles, 40 airliners and over 200 military vehicles in GTA V. And truth be told, I have designed over 400 some high-quality liveries for multiple vehicles. Take-Two may have some legitimate concerns over its multiplayer networks being hacked, but being heavy-handed towards everyone in the GTA community is somewhat BS. Just like Sony's BS story about the "children."

    This so called "concern" is mostly to maximize their Shark Card value and keeping players tied to their networks. Before this "concern" was a "concern," private networks / private servers (such as FiveM) came under attack by Take-Two because they felt it was taking away from their revenue stream and userbase ...maybe so. However, these private networks were created by gamers who enjoy role-playing (LSPDFR) and other modded scripts, that crafted gaming senerios which Take-Two just doesn't offer. This "concern" is mostly to mask and go after networks such as FiveM and the tools that allow these sessions - that ultimately has nothing to do with Take-Two's multiplayer network. A business move that ensures their Shark Card value/revenue isn't halved by gamers playing outside of their networks.

    Anyhow, this "concern" that they claim, sure isn't being agreed upon by the PC GTA community as a whole. Rockstar supports the modding community, it's their parent company Take-Two being heavy-handed in these matters. Take-Two can't make money off gamers making/modding/crafting vehicles, houses, maps and so-on, when their Shark Cards are geared towards those item purchases. Take-Two knows damn well gamers aren't going to grind and play for hours, days or even months to collect $3-10 million dollars, towards paying for one vehicle and/or housing - which is the point for the Shark Cards and Take-Two's revenue. So yes, Take-Two has millions of reasons/dollars on cutting out modding.
     
    #107 Shortbread, Jun 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  8. Shortbread

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    Some good news for us GTA PC folks....

    http://www.pcgamer.com/gta-modding-...n-update-signaling-development-will-continue/

    Maybe Sony will take notice for those wanting cross-play across those PS4 games not supporting it.
     
  9. Silent_Buddha

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    Mostly like the developers of OpenIV have addressed the vulnerability or are addressing the vulnerability that was allowing recent mods to affect online users. Of course, on the flip side, nay sayer's will likely claim that internet backlash caused Rockstar/Take2 to back down.

    Whatever the case may be, this is good news for the GTA V community.

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  10. Shortbread

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    I can honestly say it was us "nay sayer's." The GTA community and the GTA community that I'm involved with communicated with R* developers personally, and they thought (knew) their parent company Take-Two was overreaching with Open IV. Open IV is simply a tool that allows importing/editing of vehicles, maps, audio, and files dealing with population, weather, and environmental behavior. These particular types of edits/changes/adds are automatically detected by R*/Take-Two's servers, so entry into the multiplayer network would be impossible, only singleplayer content would be available.

    The tools that are being used to disturb multiplayer gaming sessions are plugins/trainers designed around C#/C++ script hooks and RagePluginHook scripts that hooks into the game engines logic, thats going undetected. Even then, it would require the core image files (peds, vehicles, maps, etc...) to be intact, not modded, which R*/Take-Two servers verifies for. In essence, the trouble-makers couldn't use modded image files which Open IV helps create. So you're not going to see a Mustang, Lamborghini, Tupac, Ironman, Hilton Hotel, etc..., within a multiplayer session, since this content only resides on the user computer, which only effects singleplayer content.

    Open IV has been around for years, serving the same function it has done since GTA 3, allowing user crafted content. There was no problem until personal servers / networks like FiveM allowed users to craft their worlds/needs outside of Take-Two's ecosystem. Which takes away from their Shark-Card money making scheme. And yes, the updated version of Open IV has nothing to do with Take-Two seeing the error of their ways. :nope: The update consisted of resolutions that we (beta-testers) were working on before this heavy-handed tactic even came about.

    But yes, us "nay sayer's" did make a difference... :mrgreen:
     
    #110 Shortbread, Jun 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
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  11. BRiT

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    Latest news on this front is Sony is now preventing crossplay on ARK Survival.

    Here's the tweet from Ark's Lead Designer, Lead Programmer, & Co-Creative Director of ARK: Survival Evolved. Co-Founder of Studio Wildcard, Jeremy Stieglitz.

     
  12. Silent_Buddha

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    LoL, it's hilarious reading the comments on the tweet. There's people trying to blame the developers. I love this one.

    It's your problem developer for wanting to be open and allow more people to play the game. You should do the right thing and just be exclusive. Don't blame Sony for your problem of wanting to let more people play together. :D That's so childish!

    Regards,
    SB
     
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  13. djskribbles

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    MS denied crossplay last gen when they were in the position of power.

    It sucks, but it's business. Unless there's a massive outcry and demand for it, Sony is not going to change their stance. Playing where your friends play is arguably the number one factor when purchasing a gaming platform, so it makes sense for the market leader to deny crossplay with their immediate competitor.

    Again, it sucks, but I personally didn't think much of it last gen, and I don't think much of it this gen. Granted it's probably because all of my friends play on the same platform, but I imagine it's the same for most people.
     
    #113 djskribbles, Aug 21, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
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  14. DrJay24

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    Why does anyone think Sony is going top help MS? Second place sucks, but you can't expect the market leader to give you a hand. Sony probably sells 100x more systems by "I bought a PS4 to play with my friends" then they will ever lose to this PR game MS is playing.
     
  15. DSoup

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    It's their fault for not giving Sony a big bag of gold. n00bs.

    Don't they know how this industry works? :nope:
     
  16. JPT

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    I understand the business angle etc, but as a player I was annoyed last gen when I could not play online with my XB360 friends due to MS not "allowing" it and this time around I am annoyed that I can not play online with my XBO friends due to Sony not allowing it.

    Albeit my XB friends are like 2 people and not a big loss in general :p
     
  17. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    Still, Minecraft is a huge draw for my son, and if he can't join the mobile platforms from his PS4, say, but he could with an Xbox One, then that would raise his interest in an XO considerably.
     
  18. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    I feel like Sony will enable cross play one day.
    The position of market leadership does not actually matter, games are changing, the games that make the most money are also the games that have the largest community base.

    MS sees cross community play as a method of getting more people to subscribe to their online services, licensing fees are a 1 time revenue stream and also extremely spikey. Subscription revenues are both predictable and reliable. The economics works out in MS favour (at the moment for being in 2nd place), because if people stop buying games (because they only want to play a handful of these 'chapter' based games, revenue from licensing fees drop. You need to monetize the games that stick around forever.

    So I think Sony will, when the economics of their player bases changes, or they find a better way to monetize these long lasting games.

    But if they want to focus hard on the licensing model, it's in their best interest to not support BC as more BC = longer lasting communities = no licensing money.

    If they are interested in keeping community, keeping BC = you need to focus on subscription fees, renewing content etc.
     
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  19. Shifty Geezer

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    #119 Shifty Geezer, Sep 18, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
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  20. Scott_Arm

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