Microsoft Xbox One X Scorpio Price Prediction and Reaction

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by mrcorbo, Apr 8, 2017.

?

Predict Scorpio's launch price:

Poll closed Jun 11, 2017.
  1. >$499

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. $499

    32.1%
  3. $449

    33.3%
  4. $399

    30.8%
  5. $1

    3.8%
  1. dobwal

    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    5,018
    Likes Received:
    1,024
    You do know that you have to convert two thirds of your 32 bit floating point operations to 16 bit to get the PS4 pro to 6 Tflops? Yet the only place we've seen it applied is checkerboarding and hair strands.

    Rapid packed math has stronger implications in machine learning and mobile titles which is probably why nvidia only sports it at full rates on it lower end mobile based gpus and the Telsa P-100s which aren't meant for games.
     
    #321 dobwal, Jun 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
    RootKit, AlBran and iroboto like this.
  2. RancidLunchmeat

    Veteran

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,045
    Likes Received:
    630
    Location:
    In your closet
    The only console that will have a generational demarcation is going to be the PS5. That will be the time that we see how the market reacts to losing their entire library of games for a "generational leap" in power, and if MS comes out with NextBox that has an iterative increase over the XB1X that matches the PS5 in power.
     
  3. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
    Legend Regular Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Messages:
    7,905
    Likes Received:
    6,188
    ehhhhh... my gut feeling is this on PS5. Unless Sony is capable of producing Scorpio $100 cheaper then MS, we should move to separate discussion of PS5 in this thread.
    Every year assuming linear and progressive drops, 3 years time puts XB1X at $349; and this is leveraging licensed tech of Jaguar and Polaris.
    You're talking about a new IP contract for Zen and then toss on new GPU tech, HBM, hardware etc. for PS5.

    To come in at a price point of $399 and be 1.5x ~ 2x more powerful than a $349 XB1X, unrealistic.
    The folks who adamant that consoles can't go back up to $499 should probably come around to the idea.
     
    BadTB25, RootKit and RancidLunchmeat like this.
  4. mpg1

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    Not sure about that...I think any console "literally right around the corner" would just blurry the lines even more in a world with already increasingly diminishing returns of graphics. Also we don't know the cost breakdown of the the Xbox One X. It's not like the architecture/chip size is that much different that PS4 Pro...
     
  5. Recop

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2015
    Messages:
    1,259
    Likes Received:
    613
    The generational leap is already here. I mean if developers choose to develop an exclusive title for the X at 1080p/30fps.

    And in my opinion, the X could be able to run PS5 games at these lower settings. I guess that the PS5 will aim a higher resolution than 1080p. The PS5 could be a dematerialized console though.

    dobwal, i think that you wanted to quote Totentanz. Anyway, double FP16 could help to slightly reduce the gap in some scenarios.
     
  6. shredenvain

    Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    921
    Likes Received:
    189
    Location:
    Somewhere in southern U.S.
    I think the tflop comparison is a little silly.
    I mean the fp16 count of 8 tflops will most likely never come to fruition. No game is going to use only fp16 from top to bottom.
    So from my understanding fp16 use can provide gains in certain scenarios but is in no way ever going to reach usage where a Dev can say we used the 8 TFLOPS of power that only the ps4pro can provide.
     
    RootKit likes this.
  7. Clukos

    Clukos Bloodborne 2 when?
    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    4,462
    Likes Received:
    3,793
    Wait, Xbox One X doesn't support double rate FP16? If so, why?
     
  8. Michellstar

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    309
    Nop, who knows why

    My take it´s that their goal was to take XO code and easily bring it to scorpio, they mentioned taking a couple of days.
     
  9. Scott_Arm

    Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    13,277
    Likes Received:
    3,726
    My biggest issue with the price is that they didn't really show any games that make the price worth it. All of the games will still be available and playable on Xbox One, which I already own. And pretty much all of them will be available and playable on PC, which means anyone with a pc doesn't need to buy an Xbox. This is purely a $500 ($600 CAD for me) visual upgrade. Conversely, I can spend less on a PS4 Pro and have access to games I wouldn't be able to play otherwise. I don't think the same is true for Playstation gamers. They didn't show much that isn't going to end up on Playstation later. The best option for me right now is PC. I can spend slightly more and get back into PC, and have access to a lot of games, and genres of games that aren't available on Xbox.

    Basically, Microsoft had to make the xbox price competitive with other options, which I don't think they did, or they had to show a big library of games for xbox, which they didn't do either. Another thing that could have worked was adding mouse/keyboard options, or put windows 10S on it. Something that makes xbox competitive or advantageous to PC. They didn't do that either.
     
  10. Jay

    Jay
    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,945
    Likes Received:
    1,091
    the thing is every option you said their ok with.
    personally i think even for windows/store a strong (perception, mindshare, brand) Xbox is good for it.
    this so far doesn't seem to help, things may change and quickly though, maybe publishers will push it whenever they get the chance. Doesn't help the price though.
     
  11. ToTTenTranz

    Legend Veteran Subscriber

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2008
    Messages:
    9,999
    Likes Received:
    4,571
    8 TFLOPs FP16 in the Pro will never come to fruition the same way 6 TFLOPs FP32 in XboneX will never come to fruition, or Xbone's 1.3 TFLOPs. That's why they're theoretical limits.

    As for these statements claiming "FP16 will almost never be used", we have:

    a) An experienced developer in this very own forum saying FP16 could be used in about 70% of the pixel shaders of a modern engine

    b) Double-rate FP16 wasn't imposed by AMD to Sony but rather the other way around. Meaning ICE is behind this capability and they're the ones assisting the development of all high-profile games for Sony platforms

    c) The fact that the Pro is 7 months old and yet we've already seen wide adoption of FP16 in games tells us a lot.


    It seems double-rate FP16 on the Pro was a not only a requirement from Sony's ICE team but also co-developed with them. It could be a different implementation from Vega's RPM as the rest of the GPU seems to be Polaris-based, or Vega could be borrowing tech originally developed for the Pro.
    Also, AMD telling Microsoft they were enabling 2*FP16 for Neo could be a huge violation of the contract made with Sony. There's a chance Microsoft simply didn't know Neo had this capability and few/none of the developers they inquired for building Scorpio mentioned 2*FP16 as an important feature.
     
  12. Michellstar

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    309

    Yep, but Ms doesn´t live in isolation.
    Almost everything just applies as well for the 4pro, 100$ less and with many more content, that´s the thing.

    I thought that Ms learned the hard way that they couldn´t sell thier console for 500$, They don´t want to compete, I´m fine with that, not getting my money though
     
  13. Jay

    Jay
    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,945
    Likes Received:
    1,091
    i disagree, you get substantial benefits on 1080p also, just not as much.

    i don't think people didn't get what he said, just they didn't expect it to cost so much, especially as they believe it's using older tech in their eyes. $450 and whole mood would be different.
     
    RootKit likes this.
  14. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    3,578
    Likes Received:
    1,986
    $250 worth of benefits?
     
  15. Shortbread

    Shortbread Island Hopper
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    3,799
    Likes Received:
    1,909
    This.

    PC gamers with decent hardware aren't going to be flocking in droves to Xbox One X, for their multiplatform gaming fix, nor the Xbox games coming as well. Although I understand "WHY" Microsoft wants a more unified Win-Ecosystem amongst its products ...but it becomes a much harder sale for a $499 product that really doesn't offer anything outside of that ecosystem, that is completely exclusive to it.

    I guess what Microsoft is trying to offer is the cheapest solution for native 4K gaming and it's library of games ...which isn't a bad thing, but a welcomed option. But $499 is still a tough sale in the console space, especially outside of the U.S..
     
    #335 Shortbread, Jun 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  16. Michellstar

    Regular Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2013
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    309
    Because after the Digital foundry tech reveal, nobody * was expecting the upper bound in price.
    It´s a slightly larger soc than pro, almost same size than original Durango at 28nm, with more ram, yes, what else??

    My bet, after Christmas it´ll be a price-cut about the same month when Kinect was ditched
     
    RancidLunchmeat likes this.
  17. Globalisateur

    Globalisateur Globby
    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    2,949
    Likes Received:
    1,669
    Location:
    France
  18. mpg1

    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2015
    Messages:
    1,526
    Likes Received:
    1,112
    I dunno...maybe it's where I have held off this gen and didn't buy a console but....Xbox One X at $499 seems like a much better deal than when Xbox One launched at $499...

    No forced kinect gimmick bundled in...power seems more in line what I would expect it 2017. This thing will seems like it will hit 4K better than Xbox One was at hitting 1080p.

    I still think it's a better deal than a PC. It is roughly the same price as gtx 1070 alone in Canada. And I still think due to developers optimizing on consoles... it is going to perform better.
     
    RootKit likes this.
  19. VitaminB6

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    40
    My bet, after Christmas it´ll be a price-cut about the same month when Kinect was ditched[/QUOTE]

    I agree. Why not have a starting price of $500.00? All the hardcore Xbox customers are still going to buy it at that price. So you capture all those sales at $500, and then drop the price before Christmas to make it more appealing to the general gamers.
     
  20. AlBran

    AlBran Ferro-Fibrous
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    20,729
    Likes Received:
    5,821
    Location:
    ಠ_ಠ
    +50% RAM chips is not insignificant. The higher clocks have some non-linear cost impact as well.
     
    RootKit likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...