Microsoft HoloLens [Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality, Holograms]

Discussion in 'VR and AR' started by Jwm, Jan 21, 2015.

Tags:
  1. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    17,695
    Likes Received:
    7,696
    That was a really fantastic read. Just when the competition had caught up to MS in AR and perhaps surpassed the original HoloLens by a bit, MS makes a rather large step forward with HoloLens 2.

    Good to see that the hand/finger recognition is much better. And it's good enough to enable the far more intuitive controls of HoloLens 2.

    And the eye tracking is just as impressive in practice.

    I also like the following direct quote from Kipman.

    Absolutely true and could be applied to VR as well. They've (Oculus, HTC, Sony, Microsoft, etc.) made huge steps but neither AR nor VR are quite ready for the prime time mass market, although VR is certainly far closer than AR.

    So it's good to see MS focusing on getting the product out where it actually makes sense, rather than giving in to the hype and attempting to push a product that is not ready for the consumer market, into the consumer market. Granted they came close as the HoloLens E3 reveal a few years back showed. But rather than doubling down on what would have been a mistake, they've pulled back and taken a much more realistic approach.

    Regards,
    SB
     
    #1061 Silent_Buddha, Feb 24, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
    milk, Arwin, AzBat and 1 other person like this.
  2. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2002
    Messages:
    7,492
    Likes Received:
    4,356
    Location:
    Alma, AR
    And if you have an hour to waste you can always watch the original here...



    Tommy McClain
     
    BRiT and Silent_Buddha like this.
  3. wco81

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    6,650
    Likes Received:
    527
    Location:
    West Coast
    Hololens 2 will be $3500.

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...olens-2-twice-the-field-of-view-eye-tracking/

    No info. on battery life.

    Wider field of view and greatly improved comfort, though it's not clear if that means it's comfortable for wearing for extended periods.

    Obviously the price bars it from becoming something that a lot of people would wear almost daily, in everyday life, as in walking outside and seeing AR metadata on the things you'd encounter.

    So the applications and markets MS seems to be targeting are fairly narrow.

    Maybe this is a milestone on the way to a device with applications which will have very broad appeal.

    Or maybe it isn't because AR via a HMD may never have that broad appeal.

    How do they quantify that they improved comfort by 3X?

    In any event, $3500 makes it a product for narrow specialty markets, where it might appeal to specific professions.

    Cool technology in search of applications which would appeal to the mass market. Certainly gaming and other entertainment possibilities but would there be a reason to wear this daily or almost daily and go outside with it?

    If you can't do those things, it might endure about as much as 3D TVs and glasses.
     
    #1063 wco81, Feb 24, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2019
  4. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    43,576
    Likes Received:
    16,033
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    Most tech milestones start in high-margin, small market pro sectors before filtering down to mass-consumer markets. No reason to think bleeding-edge mobile display tech will be any different.
     
  5. wco81

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    6,650
    Likes Received:
    527
    Location:
    West Coast
    Sure, if it helps them bring down costs and the weight/size while spurring development of applications and content which ultimately will have mass appeal.

    Not saying that can't or won't happen with Hololens or AR in general but it's hard to envision, at least for me, why one would put on an HMD on a daily or almost-daily basis. What applications are going to make one do that?

    If it's mostly entertainment or gaming and you would have to use it primarily at home, then it might be about as lasting as 3D glasses and 3D TVs.

    Or maybe the motion controllers of the Wii.
     
  6. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    17,695
    Likes Received:
    7,696
    I imagine that if/when Microsoft releases this to the consumer market it'll most likely be marketed towards
    • Do it yourself, home improvement types. All of those types of people that like to do things themselves or tinker with things.
      • Rebuilding cars (Fairly common around here, people like to pick up old classic cars and attempt to rebuild/restore them).
      • Renovating their house.
      • Building stuff (I have a few friends that have a workshop in their garage where they just make stuff like Furniture).
      • Gardening, cooking, knitting, model railroad, etc. Basically hands on hobbyist type things.
    • Maybe travellers. Albeit you'd look goofy walking around with a HMD on. :p Much like those guided Museum or garden tours, but you bring your own. Perhaps with guided tours of cities. You could do this with a smartphone, but probably a lot more immersive and certainly less dangerous than walking around looking at a smartphone screen.
    • Sporting events. Bring your own sports caster with replays to a live sporting event. Without having to potentially miss the action on the field/court because you're looking at your smartphone.
    • Games.
    Who knows what other interesting stuff there could be. Yes, right now it's hard to say since it's not out there in enough numbers and with enough capability to truly find out what can be done.

    HoloLens 1 was never going to be that product as the control scheme was too limited and too primitive. FOV was too narrow to be truly immersive. The design while comfortable at first wasn't comfortable for extended periods of time. Etc.

    HoloLens 2 gets us a bit closer by doubling the FOV. Enabling far more intuitive and useful controls. Redesigning the HMD for more comfort, etc. But as the MS spokesman said, it's still not ready for the consumer market. It still needs to get better in all those areas as well as reducing size and weight.

    It's entirely possible it may never get to the point where it's a mass consumer device, but, IMO, it still holds way more promise for achieving that than VR.

    Then again, for MS, it isn't VR or AR. They are both the same thing for MS.

    Regards,
    SB
     
    AzBat likes this.
  7. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,353
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    For me personally, after all this time such a small step forward, however good, is a disappointment in terms of how far away it’s application is to reality. I almost think that technology based on clever green-screening reality into a VR image would have a brighter future, but the problems on that end aren’t small either.

    Of course VR display technology has greatly benefitted from sharing tech with phones and Hololens currently does not have something driving its core technology in the same way. But anyway, my interest in it has waned a little for now, certainly at this price.
     
    egoless likes this.
  8. wco81

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    6,650
    Likes Received:
    527
    Location:
    West Coast
    Well they're using an SOC which was developed for the phone market or derived from phone SOCs.

    The displays and other sensors may be something that's more bespoke or at least low volumes so still fairly costly.

    I think it would almost take HMDs which are no bigger or heavier than sunglasses, because people don't want to go around wearing something that looks weird.

    And it would have to be $500 or so and deliver all-day battery life.

    Then the applications they're going to have to come up with to appeal to a large market.

    Even then I think developers may struggle to come up with popular AR or VR applications other than entertainment/gaming.

    These are good possibilities though I think a lot of these hobbies are declining in popularity. For instance, teens aren't into cars like they used to be and instructional things for renovating homes, cooking, etc. can be delivered through Youtube.

    No it won't be immersive as an HMD but all this content is FREE now. Maybe if it's easy and quick to develop AR content as it is to shoot these Youtube videos, you'll see a lot of Youtube content ported to AR, assuming it doesn't require expensive gear or an SDK or licensing to develop this content.

    I can see museums offering this. They offer audio guides that you can rent so it would be useful but it's fairly limited to big and rich museums, who would get corporate sponsorships to invest in the HMDs and developing the content.

    Sporting events could be interesting. Steve Ballmer, former MS CEO, may be interested in developing for Hololens. Right now he's trying to develop VR for NBA as well as a system for displaying real-time data and analytics as you watch the games. If they try to monetize these, I don't think too many sports fans will sign on. People can look at data afterwards.

    He's also talked about offering people at home the ability to get the POV of half-court court side seats to big NBA games, which would cost thousands of dollars each. But maybe for us plebs, we pay $10 a game to get that POV and use HMDs for the immersion.

    Yeah maybe something like that could be popular.
     
  9. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    43,576
    Likes Received:
    16,033
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    Headphones says otherwise. People happy to look stupid with lumps on their ears and a carry handle on their head. But in that case, stupid was made into fashion so it no longer looks weird. Take a look at fashion through the ages - stupidly long shoes, stupidly big ruffs, stupidly high collars and hats, stupidly oversized jeans and drop crotches - to see weird attire as perfectly acceptable and even desirable.
     
  10. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,353
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    VR is far more suitable for a ring-side Sports event, already working today and now it’s a matter of increasing resolution to get it to perfection. Hololens is suitable for many things, but this doesn’t seem a particular strong point. The interactivity combined with reality is much more valuable. I do see it as a very import technology for the future and for various current more advanced applications as mentioned above.
     
  11. bdmosky

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Messages:
    177
    Likes Received:
    48
    How much is the FOV limited by their desire for this to be an all-in-one mobile solution? I get the impression (I think from the Verge article) that if power weren't as big of a concern, then a much larger FOV could be used. Could the display tech be improved and the price drastically lowered if the processing were offloaded to say a next generation Xbox? Even if this required tethering the user to the console?
     
    BRiT likes this.
  12. Silent_Buddha

    Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    17,695
    Likes Received:
    7,696
    The FOV appears to be limited by how far the mirror oscillates. So, yes, a wider FOV likely sees a slight increase in power consumption. There's also a cost associated with a wider waveguide I'd imagine. And we don't know if the custom chip that handles all the calculations for this can keep up with a wider FOV at the same "pixel density". So there may potentially be additional cost there for an upgraded custom chip.

    Regards,
    SB
     
  13. manux

    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Messages:
    2,795
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Location:
    Earth
    Explanation on FOV of hololens 2 in the link. Or picture tells more than thousand words

    [​IMG]

    https://uploadvr.com/hololens-2-field-of-view/
     
    egoless and BRiT like this.
  14. AzBat

    AzBat Agent of the Bat
    Legend Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2002
    Messages:
    7,492
    Likes Received:
    4,356
    Location:
    Alma, AR
    manux and BRiT like this.
  15. eastmen

    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    12,421
    Likes Received:
    3,370
    I'm going to get my hands on it next month for a few days and I'm excited. The fov is a big push forward although I was hoping for more. But since this is still way expensive hopefully the third gen will come with something closer to 70 fov.
     
    eloyc likes this.
  16. Tkumpathenurpahl

    Tkumpathenurpahl Oil Monsieur Geezer
    Veteran Newcomer

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,800
    Likes Received:
    1,804
    It doesn't seem that expensive for what it is. Bodes well for pretty affordable versions a few years down the line.

    Much improved display, much improved hand tracking, and much improved aesthetic. XBoxNextNext is going to do some awesomely strange things with this tech.
     
  17. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2006
    Messages:
    18,353
    Likes Received:
    2,001
    Location:
    Maastricht, The Netherlands
    Because the Hololens 1 dropped so much in price over the years? Just trying to follow the logic of that statement ...

    It seems aeons away from something like the Oculus/Facebook Stream
     
  18. eastmen

    Legend Subscriber

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2008
    Messages:
    12,421
    Likes Received:
    3,370
    it would depend on volume I think. HoloLens was never made in the quanitiy of even the oculus rift. But if MS feels with a 3 or 4 they can get costs down enough and then do a huge run for a big release it might be possible.

    The software is the more important thing now
     
  19. milk

    milk Like Verified
    Veteran Regular

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2012
    Messages:
    3,679
    Likes Received:
    3,731
    From Siggraph this year:

    Light Attenuation Display: Subtractive See-Through Near-Eye Display via Spatial Color Filtering

    Yuta Itoh, Tobias Langlotz, Daisuke Iwai, Kiyoshi Kiyokawa, and Toshiyuki Amano



    http://www.ar.c.titech.ac.jp/cpt_project/light-attenuation-display/
     
    BRiT likes this.
  20. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    43,576
    Likes Received:
    16,033
    Location:
    Under my bridge
    Wouldn't it be better to just blacken dots behind projected light? Light Attenuation has as much trouble looking at dark surfaces as additive displays in light. You need something that'll work with both, which requires drawing light as needed and block light where not.
     
    milk likes this.
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...