Matrox on the verge of collapse?

[Vaystrem]

Interesting Editorial I'm cutting & Pasting from www.MatroxUsers.com
http://forums.matroxusers.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37155
(Forum link contains the editorial as well)

(*Note* Everything between the *****'s is directly copied & pasted the "snips" are from the original editorial as is)

*********************************************
The last editorial has benefitted me with many responses and I appreciate every one. I have just got this in my inbox, and I would like to share it with you. Before you read, be aware that I have confirmed what was written before and had planned on writing about this as well. Since I got the email, I thought this would be the prime time to attack it.


*snip*

while I don't really care much anymore for matrox..
the company, *snip*

the people there are great though.. the best bunch of guys I ever worked with..

*Snip*

in the last set of lay-offs most of the support was decimated.. there is no longer a hardware
compatibility test group.. software testing (driver, apps, etc) is reduced to about 10 people
as usual the end user support trees were chopped.. marketing, sales, and eng. were left
untouched.. luckily tsup managed not to get cut this time..
Unfortunately Haig, and the customers are the ones who are going to suffer again since
his support tree is almost gone..

why is matrox failing..

Financially most people haven't got raises there in about 3 years, paid overtime stopped 2 years
ago, no more bonuses..and they cut all benefits by about 30% morale in the place is at the bottom. if you're still working
there it's because you just waiting for the severance package..and that's the attitude most people have there
Yet the owners donate 20million to a local university in this time of financial decline..

why is parhelia doing so poorly.. I think back to a converstation I had with one of the chief HW engs.
his quote "Most company's have a dartboard that represent that market.. we throw the dart then draw the circles"
marketing could never make up their mind what market the product would sell to.. each week they changed their
minds. so the testing/fixing priorities would keep shifting.. hence you have a product that's mediocre in all categories

Marketing doesn't talk to the outside world.. they believe that they have an inate knowledge of the products people
want.. hence we have 20 people programming "e-dualhead" and such cutting edge technology like
max headroom.. rather than working on OGL code..

Re-investment in RD is almost NIL.. if you look at anand's review of inside NVidia.. they day it was released on the
web.. matrox's asic, and HW eng teams unanimously agreed... company is finshed.. they need to invest close to 500million to have the same setup.. if they did invest in that equipment then. parhelia would have been released on time.. which was about 2 years ago.. it's not liek we didn't try.. we asked for and FIB machine repeatedly starting about 4 years ago...

many good projects were dropped.. ex: video in a chipset.. they would have released it before intel.. but
it was pulled.. at 90% completion!!!! it was already taped out!! and they stopped the chip run..because
at the end they didn't think it was viable.. they even dropped the second stage low power north bridge with
video for laptops..

production goof ups.. Overproduction when it's not needed..forgetting to order parts.. hence too many 4x parhelias, and they won't sell the 8X
until the 4X is gone.. while the 8X is only 20% faster but it fixes pretty much all the problems people
are seeing in the 4X..

expierience.. there are only about 50 people in matrox that have been there more than 5 years, with the last
layoff that number has dropped, most of the guys who design the chip, and are writing the drivers have less than 3 year
expierience in doing this.. hence you always have less performance per clock than the competition.
and they don't have a single analog asic eng.. so when it comes to timings inside the asic, they always miss.
that's been the clocking issues since the G450.. and they're not willing to pay the required salary to hire this
type of engineer..

This pretty much sums up what needs fixing there (all of the mangagement).. anyone you ask will agree..


Sad times for those involved in my eyes. The root of some of their problems are left untouched while the parts that make the company grow and thrive are chopped. When/will they ever get it? One thing that was left out in that email was that many department managers have left without even having a job first.

If Matrox Graphics is to turn things around, they need to first realize that what they have been calling business as usual for the last years is not the right path. I agree completely with the sender's comment about the target and the dart. It fits so well with what I have learned about them.

*********************
Thoughts

The Parhelia could've been ready 2 years ago? They had a 90% Taped out Video Integrated on a Chipset prior to the 810's introduction (atleast I assume that's the chipset they are referring to) and canned the project due to a percieved lack of possible success? Not to mention the complete lack of R&D investment.


The only thing that seems to be keeping Matrox afloat is that they are a Private company as no public corporation's shareholders would tolerate this kind of mismanagement.

 

[Testiculus Giganticus]

Matrox`s current situation is pretty grim. It is not like me to talk about competitors, but I shall take a shot. They have little chance of turning the boat around-they just have too many leaks. Their pricing is out of line, their products are underperforming. I have friends that worked at MTX and friends that still do- some of them were maybe the best engineers I've ever seen so it's not that they lacked in human resources, but their management was all the way crappy. One bad business decision after another has led MTX to where it is now- a very deep pit where it will probably die.

 

[Jazz]

yeah red that yesterday, i must say when the parhelia came out i was very suprised and it really didnt make sense to me why matrox would release a card which was slower than cards half its price, it was aimed at gamers if it wasnt the triple screen thing wouldnt of been called "Surround Gaming". This article makes alot of sense and kinda explains alot of questions i had about them. The poor folks over at MURC have been conned by this card if u ask me, yes the card is good and has some superb featurs but its a rip off and they know they can sell it at such a high price and get away with it.

I really hope this is sorted out coz i wouldnt want to see another good gfx company die

 

[Brent]

bad company decisions is also what brought 3dfx down

i'd hate to see another competitor go

Matrox is one of the originals, would be a shame to loose them

 

[KimB]

If Matrox managed to scale way back and attempt to target a single niche market, they might have a chance at surviving a few more years. But the way it sounds right now, the management isn't smart enough to see that, and will just run the company into the ground, attempting to take as much money out of it as they can first.

 

[Fuz]

It would be very sad to see them go. The Parhelia was the beginning of the end, it seems.

Would like to hear what Nappe1 has to say on this.

Fuz

 

[Nagorak]

With two aggressive companies like ATi and Nvidia there's just no room for this sort of mismanagement. It's too bad that Matrox might go bust, but the truth is who really cares? They haven't made a significant contribution to the graphics card market since the G400 Max (the closest they ever came to cutting edge). Besides a few professionals who will be bummed for a little while before switching over to Nvidia/ATi cards, Matrox going out of business won't really affect anyone, just because they've already more or less dropped out of the race.

 

[Kristof]

Hmmm... odd coincidence talked about this in the pub only yesterday.

This reminds me of what happened roughly 1.5 years ago when I was looking for a job after the death of 3dfx. Apart from PowerVR I also went through the whole process with Matrox. The Matrox engineers I talked to where very friendly and asked the right kind of questions but they were very sketchy about giving information out about the financial status of the company and given that they are a privately held company there is no information out there.

One of the engineers/managers decided to try and hire me for a position, which he believed to be critical, namely competitive analysis (where do current and future matrox products stand in relation to the competition). I know the guy tried very hard but he kept running into refusals by "higher" management based on the fact that the company had declared a hiring freeze. Now a company working on a company saving product, as Parhelia should have been, should be more flexible with hiring, especially for positions that the engineers see as critical... but the answer remained no and would remain no for 6 months when a new decision would be made about hiring people. Sounds to me like they did not go for hiring but for firing people... sad

 

[BoardBonobo]

If Matrox does go under, I wonder who will be picking up the pieces? ATi or nVidia?

 

[davefb]

Sad if accurate . My eyes remember the milleniumII i used to have at work with very fond memories .
My 2 cents, at work now because we have one machine to write and test code on not two machines, we end up using bland gf4 machines frankly because they're 'good enough' and 1/3 the price. You can't really argue with that .

-davefb-
and the gf4's are "good enough" for 3dsmax as well, so again machines can move from programmers to artists with no hassle.. so why spend all that money on a freaky parahelia

 

[Freak'n Big Panda]

With two aggressive companies like ATi and Nvidia there's just no room for this sort of mismanagement. It's too bad that Matrox might go bust, but the truth is who really cares? They haven't made a significant contribution to the graphics card market since the G400 Max (the closest they ever came to cutting edge). Besides a few professionals who will be bummed for a little while before switching over to Nvidia/ATi cards, Matrox going out of busin ess won't really affect anyone, just because they've already more or less dropped out of the race.

I completly agree. But its really to bad Matrox is in such a bad place right now, if they had kept up with their original plans they would have been tough competition for ATI and NVIDIA

 

[Mephisto]

They haven't made a significant contribution to the graphics card market since the G400 Max (the closest they ever came to cutting edge).

The G400 WAS cutting edge, it outperformed TNT2s and had more features for about the same price. Keep in mind that this part basicly came at a surprise and was available within just a few weeks.

Nevertheless, i don't think Matrox is dead. We simply do know nothing about the financial conditions there. May be they're still profitable and just wanna cut down support cost to remain profitable for the next few quarters till their line up is back on track. We hear this "Matrox is dead" BS since years, we heard it before the G200, before the G400 and we hear it since the G450. Obviously, Matrox is doing better than we think since years.

 

[JF_Aidan_Pryde]

Yeap, just like how the "3dfx is going down" revalations never came true.
Same case, shit _can_ happen.

 

[Mephisto]

Yeap, just like how the "3dfx is going down" revalations never came true. Same case, shit _can_ happen.

Different case, 3dfx lost a lot of money every quarter. Do you know how much cash is in the Matrox pocket? How profitable they're?

 

[Fuz]

We hear this "Matrox is dead" BS since years, we heard it before the G200, before the G400 and we hear it since the G450. Obviously, Matrox is doing better than we think since years.

If you we keep hearing it, then something must be wrong. I sure hope they don't go under, but it seems like they are headed that way.

They sure aren't acting like a company thats doing well.

On a dif note. 256mb Parhelia costs $200 USD more than the 128mb versoion. What the #$%^ were they thinking?

Yet the owners donate 20million to a local university in this time of financial decline..

Yay Matrox!

Fuz

 

[Mephisto]

If you we keep hearing it, then something must be wrong. I sure hope they don't go under, but it seems like they are headed that way.

Yea, I know, It's true, I read it on a forum in the internet.

 

[Nappe1]

It would be very sad to see them go. The Parhelia was the beginning of the end, it seems.

Would like to hear what Nappe1 has to say on this.

Fuz

Nice to hear someone is still interested about my opinions as well...

I say same that I said year ago. Matrox is very good on hiding things. based on my experience, they just don't hide facts, they also "leak" sometimes purely missinformation. Another thing is that on VigilAnt's text, there is quite lot things that don't fit on my information at all, but some parts fit like a glow. Most interesting is that some information is completely vice versa between VigilAnt and my knowledge.

But because I am not sure who has right infos and who has the latest news, it is impossible say what the real situation on Matrox is.

Still I have to remind you that almost a year ago, there was a lot of rumours flying around about bad situation of Matrox. back then, it was said that Matrox will end belly up, but that never happened. Anmother thing what is common for these is that no one remembers that if you want have Multihead (4 or more heads) graphics card, Matrox MMS series is still basically only possible sollution. and afaik, It sells pretty well all the time. (yes, it's a niche market, but with pratically no competition, they can get pretty good profit on cards.)

In the end, on case of Matrox, nothing is sure before you can read it from their website. All the other information is just rumours. I still believe on a brighter future than VigilAnt gives us. (Don't wait for DX9 Ãœber chip from them soon... ...But for some reason, I decided to wait for my tax repayment on December, before buying Parhelia, though I have already secured financial side of upgrade. )

 

[Nappe1]

at least, I really don't think that whole Matrox goes under. It might be possible under some circumstances (they aren't so bad situation IMO yet.) that Graphics division finds it way to end, but even after that, I think they would just make a fusion between Video division and Graphics division. This practically would mean that they would make only Video products. (which are placed very well on their market.)

 

[KimB]

Anmother thing what is common for these is that no one remembers that if you want have Multihead (4 or more heads) graphics card, Matrox MMS series is still basically only possible sollution. and afaik, It sells pretty well all the time. (yes, it's a niche market, but with pratically no competition, they can get pretty good profit on cards.)

I do kind of wonder about that. nVidia has had a dual-chip, 4-display solution for a while now (I think it's on one of the MX-based Quadros).

 

[Nappe1]

Anmother thing what is common for these is that no one remembers that if you want have Multihead (4 or more heads) graphics card, Matrox MMS series is still basically only possible sollution. and afaik, It sells pretty well all the time. (yes, it's a niche market, but with pratically no competition, they can get pretty good profit on cards.)

I do kind of wonder about that. nVidia has had a dual-chip, 4-display solution for a while now (I think it's on one of the MX-based Quadros).

yes they do have. (I was expecting you to post this. ) But because of lack of interest this kind of cards, no one has publically put Matrox MMS against those cards. But I surely know that after nVidia launched those, Matrox has launched their G450 4xMMS cards.

Chalnoth, I would love to hear, who is manufacturing, marketing and/or selling cards based on NVS chips? nVidia by themselves? I read many prereviews when these were launched and back then (was it on February?) many sites said that drivers didn't had 3D features enabled at all. (well, G450 has very limited 3D capabilities, but at least something.)

so far I haven't found even single place where someone would be selling cards based on Quadro4 NVS 400 or Quadro4 NVS 200. (G450 and G200 MMS series are available here at least on biggest retailers for business segment.)

Anandtech about Quadro 4 NVS Series:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1585&p=4


so, you can call it as a competitor, as well as you could call good old GF2MX-100 as an product, but has it really some impact on market situation?