Making games for PSN

Limanima said:
That's excactly what I'm thinking about doing as soon as I have a good idea for a game (ho boy, this is the hard part).

I'm just saying that it will be quite hard to get the licence and get Sony attention. The game MUST be good.
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Hard depends entirely on whether or not Sony can depend on your ability to deliver.. If you're a one man band that's published before on PC for example then you shouldn't have an issue getting certified.. It's not an issue of "keeping out the little guy" really.. They just have to protect themselves from unproven timewasters who don't know how to deliver a product..

If you can get a third party publishing contract then that will help even further..
 
Shifty Geezer said:
Sure, but that doesn't mean they're very exclusive either to the point of refusing to even think about indie devs. As long as you are a professional outfit, even if just a one-man band, you should be able to fill in that form and get Sony's attention as any other developer. The form is just there to stop wannabes inundating Sony with garbage, I think, rather than limiting development to established mainstream studios. If you're serious, create a prototype, get yourself a 'company website' and apply. If Sony aren't that open than their policy is contrary to their PR comments about being open to anyone to approach them.
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This is all fine and dandy, but part of the reason why I personally am interested, is to see how developing for PSN compares to XNA at this point in time. Right now, the threshold for XNA is obviously significantly lower. I am hoping that at least the PhyreEngine will become more easily accessible - I think it would be extremely useful to have it as a starting point for developing a prototype of your game, for instance, and it would significantly lower the barrier of entry if you can get a hold of the PhyreEngine and a devkit as a private individual. I'd prefer to test out a game idea and then start up a company around it and start thinking about investments other than time and that initial $1200 (and even that would be nice if you could avoid by just using the PC version of the PhyreEngine to start with).
 
Arwin said:
This is all fine and dandy, but part of the reason why I personally am interested, is to see how developing for PSN compares to XNA at this point in time. Right now, the threshold for XNA is obviously significantly lower. I am hoping that at least the PhyreEngine will become more easily accessible - I think it would be extremely useful to have it as a starting point for developing a prototype of your game, for instance, and it would significantly lower the barrier of entry if you can get a hold of the PhyreEngine and a devkit as a private individual. I'd prefer to test out a game idea and then start up a company around it and start thinking about investments other than time and that initial $1200 (and even that would be nice if you could avoid by just using the PC version of the PhyreEngine to start with).
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If you're looking to prototype a game idea then you really don't have to rely on any single piece of tech..

For example, One of the designers at our studio put together a prototype for a game idea he'd had using only GameMaker & placeholder art. Even the thought game wasn't representative of the final product visually, nor was it implemented on a deliverable platform, it still allowed for a good proof of concept which could be tested, balanced & tweaked until the core gameplay was tight enough..

There are literally hundreds of freeware or cheap engines out there which would be perfect for this kind of job..

If you're serious about the game then there's really nothing stopping you from prototyping it now irrespective of XNA, PhyreEngine or anything else..
 
It's not the game idea itself that I am interested in when prototyping. When I am personally also the programmer, I want to do a technical prototype. This among others helps me determine whether or not I (as in with my current programming skills) can build my game idea, gives me a good idea on how much effort will be required, and so on. This would include, for instance, evaluating certain uses of the sixaxis controller, how easy it is to debug software, how easy it is to create assets and so forth.
 
Arwin said:
It's not the game idea itself that I am interested in when prototyping. When I am personally also the programmer, I want to do a technical prototype. This among others helps me determine whether or not I (as in with my current programming skills) can build my game idea, gives me a good idea on how much effort will be required, and so on. This would include, for instance, evaluating certain uses of the sixaxis controller, how easy it is to debug software, how easy it is to create assets and so forth.
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True but I don't see why you couldn't do all of these things with Visual C++.NET Express, a freeware engine like Ogre3D & some custom SixAxis drivers for the PC (i'm sure I saw a topic on something like that in the technology forum..)?
 
I'm actively following the sixaxis drivers stuff, and it seems to slowly get there. But it's very recent. I've tested several iterations - there are some topics here on the subject in which I post regularly.

You aren't wrong, but setting up Ogre3D and C++ etc. means an investment in that environment, after which you have to do the same thing for the PS3. It would be much more fluent if you could simply start with the PhyreEngine. I think that developers in the PhyreEngine team actually agree (reading a recent interview, it seemed like that).
 
Arwin said:
I'm actively following the sixaxis drivers stuff, and it seems to slowly get there. But it's very recent. I've tested several iterations - there are some topics here on the subject in which I post regularly.

You aren't wrong, but setting up Ogre3D and C++ etc. means an investment in that environment, after which you have to do the same thing for the PS3. It would be much more fluent if you could simply start with the PhyreEngine. I think that developers in the PhyreEngine team actually agree (reading a recent interview, it seemed like that).
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I'll definitely agree with you here but in my view in really depends what your priorities are..

If you're hoping to saetup a working prototype of your game in view of hunting for a publishing contract then any pre-production invested in a non-production engine/framework wouldn't be too much of a loss considering once a contract had been established, you'd then have the funding to deal with the porting process comfortably (i.e. not so much a waste of time considering your time is being financed..)

Although on the other hand if you hoping to remain a one man shop & your looking to self-publish onto the PSN then you'd be looking to dedicate as much time/effort/resources into your production platform/framework/toolchain as possible for the sake of efficiency & productivity..
 
Some more anecdotal stuff about making stuff for PSN

How is publishing via the PlayStation Network with regards to a start-up developer like yourselves?

Honestly, it's not easy. Part of that is just getting familiar with the overall process of getting a game published on the PlayStation Network (as it would be with any online console marketplace) - we don't have an established publisher taking care of all the necessary steps allowing us to just work on game development. So I need to focus on both game development and all the publishing requirements. Naturally future releases will be smoother as I'll know all the steps and everything that's required, but it's definitely trial by fire at times.

So again, the biggest challenge overall was simply inexperience on my part. I always try to be proactive in knowing as much as I can in advance, but you need to be ready for surprises - and often not good surprises. So keeping a cool head no matter what happens is fairly pivotal in running an independent game development studio (like most businesses for that matter). Naturally I've learned a lot throughout this process, and I'm definitely pleased that we're going the self-publishing route, but I don't want to mislead any prospective independent developer that's considering self-publishing their title - it's a fair amount of work in addition to just the developing the game.

And how have Sony been with you?

They've definitely been helpful. I don't want to deter independents from going the self-published route - I actually feel Sony is one of the better avenues right now for developing and self-publishing a downloadable game. I just want to make sure that if an independent does go the self-publishing route they understand that it's not a cakewalk.
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http://thesixthaxis.com/novastrike_interview_and_exclusive_screenshots_news_926_tsa.aspx

I noticed Shifty also got a thread with some relevant info, http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46925 it also mentions self publishing for the people behind Pixeljunk.

And then there was this stuff from Housemarque, http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=17954 which is also copied in here http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1153434&postcount=23
 
That sounds fairly encouraging and gives the impression that should you be serious about it, it's possible to go there.
 
Some more stuff from the guys behind Novostrike, I byted this from http://blog.us.playstation.com

Kevin McCann | June 5th, 2008 at 4:29 pm

I had a chance to speak with my account manager, and basically I wanted to provide a bit more information about where to direct inquiries for independent development and/or self-publishing.

First off, you can send an email to the following:

devrel-scea@playstation.sony.com

Now there I would just state in the subject specifically what you’re looking for like: “How do I become a licensed developer for the PS3?” And then if you want you can certainly provide some information in the email itself.

That said DON’T include any documentation like “Here’s my supercool game! You cannot refuse it!” Just start off requesting how to become a licensed developer - you’ll get to say what kind of game you want to make (or are making) later once you’ve signed NDAs and such.

Keep in mind developer relations at SCEA doesn’t have dozens of people looking at emails - and they get a lot. So if it takes a little while to get a response don’t think you’re being ignored - they have to filter through a lot of email, and some of it is just effectively spam. So avoid subjects like “Feeling inadequate?” Hehe, sorry. Seriously, though, keep it to things like “How do I become a licensed developer for the PS3?”

You can also visit the following site:

http://www.scedev.net/

Now you’re not going to get a huge amount of info from that site until you are approved, but it’s still something to look through.

That said, I’m still going to be here on the blog, and I’ll try to respond to questions regarding how do you submit games, etc. I’m not trying to brush off responding to inquiries here, but that email is where you can start with looking to become a developer.
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And some more info from the same guy

Kevin McCann | June 6th, 2008 at 8:04 am

Hi guys. This particular post is more for developers looking to potentially get a game on PSN (self-published or otherwise). Think of this post as being a companion to post 120 (which tells you how to go about looking into being a licensed developer for SCEA).

If you have specific questions about any part of the process of once you’re approved such as what the steps are and such I can try to provide an informed response based on my experience (which is far from all-knowing). It can be daunting the first time you go through it, so I don’t mind trying to help. Again, if all you’re looking for is information on how to become an approved developer for a PlayStation console or the PSP then please refer to post 120.

However, don’t send me anything regarding the type of game you want to do (especially documentation). If you do I won’t read it – understand that if I were doing a game similar to what you wanted to do and I released it then that would look kind of bad (to say the least). So keep the game idea to yourself which is always a good practice anyhow – NDAs are your friend.

And also understand that I might not be able to respond right away, but if it is a serious inquiry I will get to it. You can send me an email at inquiry@tikigames.net
Kevin McCann's Avatar
Kevin McCann replied on June 6, 2008 at 8:57 am

I just wanted to add that I’m going to write a brief document that covers the steps of getting a game self-published on PSN from start to finish. It’ll be an overview document, and it will contain examples, and I likely won’t be posting it publically, but instead hopefully sharing it with interested developers.

I’ll definitely need my account manager to review it first, and in all fairness make sure it’s informative enough, but I’ll try to have it done within the next couple weeks (I have other things to do as well, so it’s a side-project).

Sony has a LOT of documentation covering all the steps once you’re an approved developer, but it can a bit of a “Holy crap” moment when you see all the documents, and you want to get a quicker view of the process. So I’m not going to state what’s in the documents, but instead detail what needs to be provided at each official step of the way, along with tips.

Again, I am by no means an expert on this, but I did learn a lot, and even if I’m opening the door for future competitors I don’t mind. It’s seriously tough enough to self-publish a game just from a development standpoint, so if I can make it a little easier by reducing some of the stress by providing useful information about going through the process for other developers then that would be great.
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New PSN dev policies

A belated change...
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/n...on-developing-for-an-open-ps2-platform/?biz=1

"Game developers should create games for local markets," Bain said. Several new policies allow for that.

First, Sony is adapting a global approval system. Previously games had to be submitted separately through Sony Europe, Japan, and America. Now, the game idea is sent through a single website for approval.

And now, Sony will allow developers to publish by going through a third-party publisher. "This has never been done before," notes Bain. "This is something we're actively promoting."

"...without the need of a licensed publisher," he continues, "it's a direct relationship between a developer and Sony."

Something else to ease the process is an edict that, once a game has been approved, episodic and expansion content won't need to be approved before being published.

Currently, developers interested in utilizing in-game ads must work with the only two licensed ad providers, Double Fusion and IGA Worldwide, but Bain says the company is in discussions with additional partners.

Bain concluded by restating: "Developers no longer need a publisher to distribute games on PlayStation Portable and PlayStation 3."
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For PS2 development in Europe...

The most important information Bain had for his audience was news that, in Europe, the PlayStation 2 "is effectively an open platform," adding, "You no longer have to submit a game for content approval." He used examples from Russia and Indian developers, saying they can "create low-development cost titles and release them in their market."

Bain reports that there is no cost to become a licensed developer, but dev kits do cost. In some cases, Sony lends dev kits.
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Zassk said:
Hmm. So, he said PSN has 2.8 million registered users, and he said 50% of PS3 owners go online. Can "PS3 owners go online" without registering? Does 2.8 million = 50% of the installed base? I can't reconcile these two statements.

I took him to mean that 2.8 million out of 10-11 million owners use PSN, which, to me, is a low percentage.
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You can go online without registering on PSN.
 
obonicus said:
Both of these are great advances. The PS2 thing particularly -- it's what they should have done when the PS3 came out, really pushed the PS2 as the platform for low-cost niche titles, more or less what's been happening in Japan.
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Yeah, awesome. Now just get those tools by the ex-Naughty Dog guy out there and we're all set on PS3 too! ;) But for PSP it could be great too.
 
Interesting. SCEA's approval process takes about 5 - 7 days, with SCEE taking up to 2 weeks.

SCEA and MS can turn things around in 5-7 days most times. SCEE is closer to two weeks but they have a system where you can see the progress and bugs as they're testing (which means, you can anticipate your pass or fail and potentially be ready to have a resubmission ready to go when you fail).
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I wonder how this new global approval system will affect approval times. For that matter, I'm curious as to how its being handled internally. Will there simply be 1 approval team, or separate teams for each market, as it is now, except the developer just submits it once and recieves 1 report? If its separate teams I would imagine that the approval times would be reflective of the slowest team.
 
(cheap pump-up)

I just run over to, now obsolete?, Playstation CAMP website. Can't read anything but one complete fruit of it is Gomibako PSN game in Japan store. Its..well a tetris full of trash. One subpage do have a date 2009/03 but don't know what it means.

CAMP was a way to bring PSN and PSP development to a indie game developers. I believe they never run it outside of Japan. Website has few cover arts.
* MyStylist PSP
* Echocrome PSP
* unknown PSP game, seems like an ancient oil well or dig game.
 
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