MAG

[Shifty Geezer]

Suppressive fire isn't an option in most MP games, including MAG. In Day of Defeat it'd matter because a single shot would drop you...

That's probably the key issue. In RL, a machine-gun spraying bullets is going to deny movement to troops, whch is its principle purpose. But so what if you get hit with a few rounds of LMG fire in MAG when you can either shrug off 5 or 6 bullet hits, or your teammates can resurrect you to full health once killed?

 

[nightshade]

What more devs need to understand is that LMG isn't a weapon you can fire from hip or just aim & fire...that's something which Assault Rifles do.
An LMG needs to very powerful but also needs to have a horrible recoil & inaccuracy if you fire it without setting it up or atleast if you fire from any other position beside prone position (like in Day of Defeat). OR make LMG a downright horrible weapon for anything that's 5-6 meters away from you (like the LMG in KZ2)

Its this point which most devs ignore which leads to people in most MP games ignoring Assault Rifles & going with LMGs instead simply cause LMG is more powerful & has a much larger bullet capacity, but no real con compared to the Assault Rifle (MAG,BFBC2 are few examples). Sometimes they'll reduce your speed a bit if you carry an LMG but the reduction in speed doesn't brings in any changes int he balance of the game at all.

 

[Arwin]

I hope that at some point games will always include a realistic damage option. If anything, it will give people even more respect for reality (though you die so often in games, that I doubt there will be many gamers foolish enough to think that most war scenarios should be avoided at all cost ). And I think it could also still be a lot of fun.

 

[obonicus]

What more devs need to understand is that LMG isn't a weapon you can fire from hip or just aim & fire...that's something which Assault Rifles do.
An LMG needs to very powerful but also needs to have a horrible recoil & inaccuracy if you fire it without setting it up or atleast if you fire from any other position beside prone position (like in Day of Defeat). OR make LMG a downright horrible weapon for anything that's 5-6 meters away from you (like the LMG in KZ2)

What you're suggesting is what most games do, which is making the game completely useless, because that's the image video-games have of the gun. They made a strong LMG -- they need to make the AR stronger at this point, not the LMG weaker. Give it a higher firing rate compared to the LMG so it does greater DoT and give it more ammo, like 200 rounds total.

 

[Cornsnake]

Remember that this only effects the foregrip and improved stability, both will only effect you while moving. If you use the LMG properly by going prone, and preferably using the bipod, you still get some excellent accuracy out of it. So no more using it like an AR.

As for where that would be useful in MAG, you just got to find the right spots. I liked to use them for keeping charges from being defused on bunkers. I'd find a good spot with some cover, overlooking the charge while someone else places it, setup the bipod, and kill anyone spawning out of the bunker, who were usually to distracted with defusing to notice me. In same way you can do this any where you'll know your relatively well hidden, overlooked places you know the enemies are most likely to come through. Just like with the sniper rifle you need to find the right spot to be effective.

 

[obonicus]

The foregrip exists exactly so you don't have to go prone. The foregrip so far has made the bipod much less desirable, since it was so effective, but it's not like people are getting the foregrip for free, either.

 

[JPT]

Well in my experience the LMG has less recoil than an assault rifle, but this was older equipment in use in the Norwegian Army ie MG3 (LMG) and AG3 (AR). The bigger guys in my platoon, ie 185cm + did not have much problem with firing from the should with the 11kg MG3 we used. And from the hip it was quite accurate up to about 40-50m even for a small guy like me 172cm and 65kg (at that time I actually found the recoil in the LMG to be easier for me to handle than the AR, but both of them used the 7.62 ammo, so that might be the reason.
I assume the newer lighter 5.56 based LMG's are even easier to handle, but at the cost of stopping power.

So the question is, how realistic do you want to go or should it just look realistic, but balanced for fun?

 

[obonicus]

Not to mention the fundamental differences between games and real life. It takes several bullets to drop someone in MAG and you can be healed to full in seconds, or even rescued from death.

Maybe they shouldn't have put an LMG in at all, but i think they should seriously buff the ammo reserves of the AR and maybe give it a faster firing rate.

 

[patsu]

Can that ever actually work in MAG though given the maps? There aren't many places where a couple of LMGs can play a holding role, as you're an easy target for snipers or someone coming around from the back. And who wants to lay down suppressive fire with an inaccurate weapon that won't land kills? If the LMG is turned into a real MG-type weapon, something that should be positioned in a third-floor room overlooking a roadway or somesuch, everyone will switch to the more accurate AR with the possibility of head-shots as they weave between walls and boxes.

What about making them move slower but keep the high damage ? Like between scoped sniper rifle and assault rifle.

Sniper fire in general are not a big problem. The Japanese players usually have a 1-2 men taking the long route to attack a base. They will clear any camping snipers from strategic locations.

I wouldn't mind a one-bullet-one-kill game lab like what NaughtyDog is running, just to see how well it plays.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What about making them move slower but keep the high damage ?

That may be an option, in that they can't run into a fray and lost the tactical speed advantage, but when they do arrive on scene the enemy are scared.

Sniper fire in general are not a big problem. The Japanese players usually have a 1-2 men taking the long route to attack a base. They will clear any camping snipers from strategic locations.

Ooo, I'm feeling my MAG rage again! People going to clear out snipers get squat recognition, so for this to be an intended part of the game, it needs to be catered for. As long as the focus is always a massive crash around the objectives, you can't rely on useful teamwork like this, which means you can't build a character with an expectation that where you'd be a sitting duck for snipers, you trust your Commandos will be clearing them out.

 

[patsu]

Ooo, I'm feeling my MAG rage again! People going to clear out snipers get squat recognition, so for this to be an intended part of the game, it needs to be catered for. As long as the focus is always a massive crash around the objectives, you can't rely on useful teamwork like this, which means you can't build a character with an expectation that where you'd be a sitting duck for snipers, you trust your Commandos will be clearing them out.

It's all play by ear. If snipers are causing problem, someone or yourself will take care of them. I noticed that the Japanese are more careful and organized in this aspect.

 

[obonicus]

I wouldn't mind a one-bullet-one-kill game lab like what NaughtyDog is running, just to see how well it plays.

It'd make snipers a lot less attractive, since most of the maps aren't that big and you can score a random hit on enemies pretty easily. Maybe make sniper guns prevent resuscitation, but even then you're sort of making the higher-tier guns useless.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

It's all play by ear. If snipers are causing problem, someone or yourself will take care of them.

Someone who doesn't care about racking up the kills or points... And besides, as I say, it's undependable. You can't create a heavy trooper class layout if such a layout is a sitting duck for snipers because you never know if there's going to be a significant enemy sniper force or not. The game requires different people to be doing different jobs. You need to know there is someone working on keeping the sniper force down, and they need to know people are going for the objective, and are protecting our snipers, etc. The game needs more proper roles, something these open online games just can't get outside of organised clans.

Seems to me that trying to balance for that is nigh impossible. The reason most players run around with LMGs is because that's the gun for the individual who's just there to shoot things, which is 95% of players. Change the LMG to prevent that and they'll all go with the next gun, the AR. If the idea is to get more people trying more weapons, the solution doesn't lie in adjusting them, but making sure the game has specific roles, with the right tool for the job.

 

[Cornsnake]

Someone who doesn't care about racking up the kills or points... And besides, as I say, it's undependable. You can't create a heavy trooper class layout if such a layout is a sitting duck for snipers because you never know if there's going to be a significant enemy sniper force or not. The game requires different people to be doing different jobs. You need to know there is someone working on keeping the sniper force down, and they need to know people are going for the objective, and are protecting our snipers, etc. The game needs more proper roles, something these open online games just can't get outside of organised clans.

Seems to me that trying to balance for that is nigh impossible. The reason most players run around with LMGs is because that's the gun for the individual who's just there to shoot things, which is 95% of players. Change the LMG to prevent that and they'll all go with the next gun, the AR. If the idea is to get more people trying more weapons, the solution doesn't lie in adjusting them, but making sure the game has specific roles, with the right tool for the job.

I disagree with that. BF:BC has specific roles, yet everyone chooses the the sniper class, even if they know damn well were going have to defend our base from tanks, which they can't handle very well. So I end up being the only demolition class to take care of them.

In MAG I can't have at least the weapon I want, and whatever equipment I want. To be able to create a loadouts for a more general, and specific roles.

I think the problem is more that all the weapons are tied to the skilltree. You have choose which to spend your points. And from that a good all around weapon, the AR, becomes a sort of logical choice as long as your low level. The SMG's and shotguns are usually only used by the high level players. You get an AR, LMG and sniper rifle for free. But because you have to spend skillpoints on them to make them halfway decent, your pretty much locked into using it exclusively until you get enough skillpoints to spend on other weapons. You can only serve that role for your team.

 

[patsu]

At some level, I don't think creating a total/perfect balance is the way to go. I think it's ok to be unbalanced in specific scenarios, but let the players switch their loadout and strategy to balance/smooth things out themselves. Does it make sense ?

EDIT: Felt good yesterday when I took out SVER objective A alone. ^_^

 

[Cornsnake]

For anyone still not certain whether or not they should get MAG, check out this review.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qco8LGDRa54&feature=related

 

[patsu]

Gamestop dropped the price of MAG to $30:
http://playstationlifestyle.net/2010/05/12/mag-gets-massive-price-drop/

According to GameStop, MAG is now available for the low price of $29.99. Whether this is a sign of the game joining other best-selling PlayStation 3 games in the console’s “Greatest Hits” line-up, or is just a way to get more soldiers to enlist isn’t yet clear. However, one thing is for sure… MAG is definitely worth the price of admission, and if you’ve yet to pick it up, now is the time.

 

[Cornsnake]

http://blog.mag.com/blog/

The date for the 1.06 patch has been set for June 8th. The full list of everything it includes will be released the same day.

I'm somewhat disappointed thought. We were promised that Zipper would reveal that "big" DLC last month. Now all we know is that we're supposed to get it before E3.

 

[patsu]

4 more days ! I was hoping it dropped this Tuesday.

The next big DLC is supposed to add new game mode (and maps) ?

 

[nightshade]

I know that its never gonna happen but I'm just being optimistic here by hoping for the "big" DLC to be region free. (since MAG got its own servers for updates & everything) Getting hands on a readily available EU PSN card is quite a pain at the moment & I already have few $$ on my US PSN account.