Lair Trailer (Direct Feed)

[NANOTEC]

Maybe it wasn't necessary? Did any other trailer (including MGS4's) had a caption of it being real time?

MGS4 didn't need a caption because they stated it was realtime. They even demoed it using a controller.

For the 1st Lair trailer there was a caption saying it was realtime. Why remove the caption for the newer trailer and say nothing? Why boast about it being realtime in an inferior build then say nothing about a new superior build? Seems kind of suspicious. IMO it's a target render.

 

[mckmas8808]

MGS4 didn't need a caption because they stated it was realtime. They even demoed it using a controller.

For the 1st Lair trailer there was a caption saying it was realtime. Why remove the caption for the newer trailer and say nothing? Why boast about it being realtime in an inferior build then say nothing about a new superior build? Seems kind of suspicious.

Did you not just see my screenshot that I showed you? Imagine how that how look in motion. And keep in mind people ragged on Heavenly Sword when they first saw the pics of the game and then they saw it run in motion and it was a competley different ball game.

 

[NANOTEC]

Did you not just see my screenshot that I showed you? Imagine how that how look in motion. And keep in mind people ragged on Heavenly Sword when they first saw the pics of the game and then they saw it run in motion and it was a competley different ball game.

You still didn't answer my questions.

 

[Bad_Boy]

yes, they moved the old demo around and said it was realtime.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sgW81km74lk&search=lair ps3

 

[mckmas8808]

yes, they moved the old demo around and said it was realtime.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sgW81km74lk&search=lair%20ps3

Thank you Bad_Boy. As you can see Nanotec same dragon in the E3 video is right there in the GDC demo. Running in real-time.

 

[London Geezer]

I'd never have thought i'd say this, cause it is kinda naff, but i preferred the "wet" look. It just looked much more dramatic... Still clichee (sp?) though...

 

[NANOTEC]

Thank you Bad_Boy. As you can see Nanotec same dragon in the E3 video is right there in the GDC demo. Running in real-time.

What are you talking about? That video is from the old trailer which clearly stated it was ingame footage. That dragon clearly looks different from the supposed realtime screenshot you posted. Again can you please answer my questions?

For the 1st Lair trailer there was a caption saying it was realtime. Why remove the caption for the newer trailer and say nothing? Why boast about it being realtime in an inferior build then say nothing about a new superior build? Seems kind of suspicious. IMO it's a target render.

 

[mckmas8808]

What are you talking about? That video is from the old trailer which clearly stated it was ingame footage. That dragon clearly looks different from the supposed realtime screenshot you posted. Again can you please answer my questions?

For the 1st Lair trailer there was a caption saying it was realtime. Why remove the caption for the newer trailer and say nothing? Why boast about it being realtime in an inferior build then say nothing about a new superior build? Seems kind of suspicious. IMO it's a target render.

In the beginning of that Youtube video they showed the same dragon (wireframed and all) in that video, that was in the E3 2006 video. Keep in mind these dragons do have over 100,000 polygons each.

 

[London Geezer]

For the 1st Lair trailer there was a caption saying it was realtime. Why remove the caption for the newer trailer and say nothing? Why boast about it being realtime in an inferior build then say nothing about a new superior build? Seems kind of suspicious. IMO it's a target render.

There's nothing there to answer really, so why do you have to keep pushing that button? Mckmas has no way of knowing the answer, he's not developing the game.
YES, it seems suspicious if you have a suspicious mind about anything related to Sony. Anyone else is just waiting to see and hear more from the developers, which is what you should do.

 

[Bad_Boy]

For the 1st Lair trailer there was a caption saying it was realtime. Why remove the caption for the newer trailer and say nothing? Why boast about it being realtime in an inferior build then say nothing about a new superior build? Seems kind of suspicious. IMO it's a target render.

So your saying if a dev says their game is realtime, everytime they show their game after that they must again say its realtime, or its suspicious? As said above, the newest MGS4 trailer had no such reference to being real time or not, yet the first one did. The new trailer looks better, Does that make MGS4 suspicious?

I'm not saying LAIR is real time or not, I'm just saying your logic is kinda flawed. Why dont we alll just calm the hell down, and wait and see what happens?

e3 hasnt even officially started yet!

 

[NANOTEC]

There's nothing there to answer really, so why do you have to keep pushing that button? Mckmas has no way of knowing the answer, he's not developing the game.
YES, it seems suspicious if you have a suspicious mind about anything related to Sony. Anyone else is just waiting to see and hear more from the developers, which is what you should do.

Then he shouldn't question people when they have an opinion that states the new trailer looks like a render target and suspicious? Why go out of your way to try and convince someone's opionion is wrong with false information disguised as fact? Why are you resorting to character assasinations now? Why should we believe SONY? Because they've been honest in the past? Oh and yeah everyone should wait including people who are claiming it's realtime with false information disguised as fact.

So your saying if a dev says their game is realtime, everytime they show their game after that they must again say its realtime, or its suspicious? As said above, the newest MGS4 trailer had no such reference to being real time or not.

The new MGS4 looks the same as the old trailer. It doesn't look like a render target.

I'm not saying LAIR is real time or not, I'm just saying your logic is kinda flawed. Why dont we alll just calm the hell down, and wait and see what happens?

Read above.

 

[Rodéric]

Enough off topic talk already, you disagree, leave it at that, no pointless arguments.

BTW CG stands for Computer Graphics, which means anything produced by a computer, be it realtime or not...

 

[Eagle-Vision]

Then he shouldn't question people when they have an opinion that states the new trailer looks like a render target and suspicious? Why go out of your way to try and convince someone's opionion is wrong with false information disguised as fact? Why are you resorting to character assasinations now? Why should we believe SONY? Because they've been honest in the past? Oh and yeah everyone should wait including people who are claiming it's realtime with false information disguised as fact.

I trust in Factor 5 because they have indeed been completely honest in the past. They deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Nesh]

Enough off topic talk already, you disagree, leave it at that, no pointless arguments.

BTW CG stands for Computer Graphics, which means anything produced by a computer, be it realtime or not...

I think CG comes from CGI=Computer Generated Images and usually its directed towards rendered non-real time generated graphics

I think

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Actually, the opposite. That clipping glitch is pretty common in most games, but I don't know if it happens in CGs, probably not, but I'm trying to play safe here.

We're doing a lot of things with texture mapped particles, too. Also, ever considered the possibility that the terrain has a rock sitting on top on it that blocks parts of the fog from view?

 

[msia2k75]

I trust in Factor 5 because they have indeed been completely honest in the past. They deserve the benefit of the doubt.

I want to trust them but I cant... thx to the other publishers. But if this is real-time...

 

[Acert93]

I have no clue what the dragons are (the old video is real time), but consider this:

* This game does seem to be built from the ground up and is a PS3-only solution.

* UE3 has some nice large creates that, when splashed with full effects, look insanely detailed.

* The footage has been mainly in the air, meaning there is a substantial budget of resources that can be concentrated on the dragons. e.g. PGR3 has like 1M polys in the Brooklyn Bridge. The cars each have 80M+ polys. Taking LOD into consideration, that is still a HUGE amount of polys in memory and on screen, even after culling and LOD.

* It was suggested that the 100k figure may be based on a base mesh + displacement mapping for larger detail + normal mapping for finer detail. While the source dragons are probably in the millions, there is no reason to believe that 100k is out of reach based on PGR3. They would just have to do LOD, Geometry Instancing, and some nice footwork in regards to the mesh/displacement maps. Not easy, but since the FOCUS of the game is the dragons, it seems viable.

* Factor 5 has always been on the technical cutting edge. Even on the GCN, their efforts shined. The GCN Starwars launch game is STILL one of the best games on the system. It ROCKS.

IMO, we should be expecting more next gen games living up to this level of detail. My statements about giving the 360 a break apply here as well. Gen transition is STILL under effect. But we are starting to see the fruit of totally abandoning old engines, not upgrading them, and starting fresh.

Heck, look at UE3. This is a one-size-fits-all multi-platform PC centric solution. And it is some of the best stuff out right now. BiA, Rainbow Six, Mass Effect, etc are all gorgeous compared to the "next gen" median. We should expect a TON more from console-specific software. ESPECIALLY first party stuff.

In late 2007, like I said way back in Spring 2005, we will begin to see our FIRST titles developed from day 1 on the final hardware. At that point we will realize how much the old consoles, PCs (still supporting DX8 in most cases!), and the rush to get titles out has neutered the software we see today.

Anyhow, I am more curious why Lair was not a CENTRAL part of the Sony E3 Press conference. Lair, Killzone 3, Motorstorm, Devil May Cry 4, etc... A lot of hyped titles that should have been central to the show IMO. It is anyone's guess why they were not there.

 

[mckmas8808]

God bless you Acert. Every point you made is dead on. I think they wanted to focus on more 1st party titles. Even though Lair is 2nd party so...


I don't know Sony F'ed it up.