Kinect-less XB1 fallout thread *spawn

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by Shortbread, May 13, 2014.

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  1. Tap In

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    this often repeated "less powerful, same price, who will buy it" meme is silly.

    The games are nearly indistinguishable to most peoples' eye outside of forums such as these. The power gap is hardly noticeable yet some seem to want to compare it to the Wii U. :lol: There are also many other compelling reasons, services, games friends features etc. To buy an Xbox over a Ps4.

    Not to mention the Kinect is still available as an input device for controlling your media center and it works damned well. Even better over the past couple of updates. It may not be a gaming revolution but it is still an impressive piece of kit and many people own and will continue to choose it going forward.


    This move now just allows MS to compete with price parity and to send Xbox into other international markets where Kinect and its language interface and media barriers make it harder to implement or less compelling.


    All the chicken Little rhetoric is amusing though. :lol:
     
  2. BoardBonobo

    BoardBonobo My hat is white!
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    Now that they are redesigning the whole interface to be controller friendly the value of Kinnect is going to diminish even more. They should just save themselves the money and take it off the market until it has a reason for existing.
     
  3. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    I don't see statements saying they are going to redesign the interface to make it less Kinect friendly, just add elements to make it more controller friendly (i.e. access to some sub menus etc.). Improving one does not automatically predicate that the value of one is less.
     
  4. BoardBonobo

    BoardBonobo My hat is white!
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    But as soon as people can navigate using a controller the Kinnect will be forgotten. Its nature for the path of least resistance to be followed.
     
  5. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    That'll still come down to user preference. Its not as though the controller functionality is forcing people to use Kinect for the UI (I don't, for instance).
     
  6. joker454

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    How can you possible buy (insert one console brand here) when (insert other console brand here) is the same price? You are mad I say, mad! Don't you know that your console is inferior at (insert useless metric here) and that no real core gamer would ever do what you do? I mean who buys a console for games anyways when (insert another useless metric here) is better on the other console?


    Ok so assume everyone is informed and everyone knows that the xb1 is weaker. Strange how for example my bro-in-law's family have no clue about any of this since they don't read any of this stuff as they are busy with life and kids, but let's just assume it's true for the sake of argument. If that's the case then why is anyone still buying an xb1 at all?


    I don't get this at all. Why is it useless? They sold their product at the maximum price they could and have a profit from day one, something that is so rarely ever done in the console world. That's a victory and let them outpace their previous console sales as well. Now that sales drop, simply drop price. Are people really suggesting they should have instead sold the first few million consoles at a loss at $399 instead of at a profit at $499 as they did? They did the right thing and priced it right, resulting in the first time a console has been able to launch without a loss in years. They tried a new idea by bundling an expensive item, sold it at a profit, sales slowed down and/or 3rd party support was nil, they changed plans and dropped price and that expensive item, now we see what happens. Goodness it's not over, it's been only 6 months!


    Because they moved quickly on price when it was needed, and because their product isn't crap to begin with.


    Speaking of meaningless, Wii U are meaningless as a basis for comparison because the market for Wii U has moved on to other devices. It would be like saying look that manufacturer of the car that runs on steam had poor sales. Well yeah, because people moved on to gas powered cars. Wii U was doomed from the start.


    Sure, so why is this all negative for the xb1? You guys act as if everywhere you go there's people hiding around the corner warning people to not buy an xb1. I see lots of positive articles, and lots of articles on cool games coming out for it, I mean do articles on games not matter anymore? On websites that are not strictly about gaming the news is far more positive about the xb1 than it is for the ps4 because the ps4 ultimately is viewed as just another boring game box whereas MS are going for more with the xb1. Things like future unification of apps and services across all MS devices is seen as a huge positive on such websites although largely ignored on gaming websites and forums like this one. Why does that not count?


    Right which is why when someone posted "Why would you buy a $399 xb1 over a $399 ps4", I replied that was silly. That's how this all started. A comment like that implies people buy a product purely on stats alone, and we know that's not the case, it never has been in the console world.


    I'm simplifying your quote to the above, because I'm struggling to see why the above doesn't apply to Xbox. Again when someone posts "Why would you buy a $399 xb1 over a $399 ps4", why does everything you said not apply to xbox and only apply to playstation?


    They chose the cheaper one, not exactly a huge surprise when one product was touching the $500 mark which for consoles is extremely high. Ps3, 3d0 and Neo Geo showed us that there is a price limit the average user is willing to pay for a console. In any case now they are priced the same. So once again when it's said "Why would you buy a $399 xb1 over a $399 ps4", how does that make any sense? Yeah MS tried something new when they launched, sold millions at a profit but they can't get the price down low enough and it seems like support is lacking so it's time to eject the expensive part. Now you have two largely similar machines at the same price, each with their respective brands and some unique future features but apparently I'm to understand that no one would buy one $399 model over the other $399 model. I still think that line of thinking is silly.
     
  7. Arwin

    Arwin Now Officially a Top 10 Poster
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    Fwiw, according to NPD there are 34 million core gamers ...
     
  8. DSoup

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    For the same reason I bought a PS4 first. The Xbox exclusive games because they have different game preferences and/or values to me. Or because all of their friends have them. Or because they bought into, and valued, the vision of having a relationship with your TV with Kinect.

    The exclusives, the perceived gaming performance, the friend/social angle, the cost, the controller, the extra non-gaming features and the fanboy-factor are all factors they will sway and weight a decision.
     
  9. Cyan

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    Reading your posts, I wonder how you could be happy this generation if you purchased one of the consoles.

    I know you were in favour of the original Xbox One vision. I am fine with that, but if you purchased the console as it was and that vision was realised, you'd have to deal with the constant criticism from almost everyone. This leads to poor sales in the end, especially when journalists are involved, or Gamestopt, Game, etc.

    You lived something similar in the previous generation having people trying to sell the idea that the PS3 was more powerful 'cos... PS3 they just said exclusives allegedly looked better -but RDR, Call of Juarez, etc, were X360 games that looked as fine as those to me-

    It posed a problem when a few fans tried to shove that idea down your throat, with endless discussions. It gets tiresome after 9 years hearing the same.

    The question would be, could you handle replying to those people trying to defend the console in that uphill battle? I don't know you personally, but it'd be admirable if you can pull that off.

    Now some of those people feel beyond good and bad, and say whatever floats their mind, sometimes mock about those who chose the Xbox, 'cos X1 is the easy target no matter what.
     
  10. Cyan

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    joker454, as usual, is right. The key is not the diehard fans of a company -let's say Sony-, or some of those who act like stockholders in the firm, and seem to be all day preoccupied by the NPD data and a few extra pixels...

    Your sample conversation sounds way too hardcore, rather than representative of the whole spectrum, btw.

    Imo, the key... It's the journalists! What the media says, it's the turning point for Xbox One to have a chance to become a solid 2nd at least.

    This is from my real life experience. :smile2:

    I told a friend of mine who is a total casual, and played sports games with me on the X360 for the entire generation, and music games like Rock Band/GH, that I had gotten the Xbox One.

    My real life conversation on the phone (we live afar now) went like this:

    Me: Are you going to buy a console? :smile2: Buy the X1 so we can play online!

    His reply: Not for now, my girlfriend says there is no console.
    They talk very well about the PS4.

    He knows very little about consoles. And he read about the positive vibe around the PS4, on some gaming site or in mainstream media, wherever he did.

    That "they" meant the journalists. :) We talked about consoles a few times in person.

    One of his typical sentences is the ever present amongst the casual crowd: "Final Fantasy VII is the best game of all time". (place a similar and typical sentence here) :)

    He doesn't know what a pixel is and always told me that he preferred Nintendo, 'cos "they make games to be fun, to laugh", :smile2: and (despite playing constantly with me on the X360) that "Sony and Microsoft are two companies only worried about showing spectacular games, and make them look too good, rather than fun", :smile2: mentioning that with a hint of disdain in his tone.
     
  11. Nesh

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    you are just proving my point.

    The value proposition at that price was not appealing enough. The market was not there to say "oh my I want to pay more for kinect and TV"

    MS's strategy and vision was wrong. It caused delays in many territories, it was expensive, people dont want to pay extra for the other "features", "features" that came at the expense of performance

    They are left with two choices. The original bundle with limited appeal due to price and features people dont care enough for, and another at the right price but with nothing to compensate for the other drawbacks or anything to differentiate from competition.

    No matter how you see it the original vision screwed them. Only game exclusives and other evolving and upcoming features can save it. Areas where they compete head on with Sony
     
  12. Cyan

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    I think they studied the market and thought that people want to look the TV on the console a lot.

    I have a few friends who use the Xbox 360 just for Netflix or similar services, and play very little, if anything.

    Why it did work then on the X360 and not when it was one of the key elements of the Xbox One? :smile2:

    Dunno, tbh, but my guess is that people prefer to find things that work for themselves and not when you force them down their throat like the TV idea on the One.

    Maybe you are pushing people out of their comfort zone. Maybe it's just that they love to boast about their console and how it plays Netflix and people love being surprised at the unexpected. :)

    They found out that X360 could be a great platform for Netflix apart from playing their games, and loved that. Just a theory, but that's what I've seen in life when it comes to those things.

    Gotta say that I hate the unpredictability of the technology market. :smile2:

    If you told me back in 2004 that PS brand would sell 70-80 million less consoles after PS3 was released, or that the Xbox One would have a rough start coming from an almost perfect execution in the X360 generation, or that the X360 was going to be a hit after the original Xbox generation, I'd say you were out of your mind.
     
  13. Shifty Geezer

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    That's what I said here.

    Of course it's not representative of the entire spectrum. How could any one conversation between two people be fully encompassing?! ;) It was there as an example of Joe Consumer looking for a console and someone spelling out the differences. How is it possible to spell out the differences in a very generic, low level way that Joe Consumer will appreciate and make the XB1 look better? If you know a way, please present it! Otherwise, XB1 is dependent not on great market forces and being a potent product, but a few recommendations here and examples there.

    Right. You prove the point. His un-gamer take is 'they talk well about PS4'. He already hearing and 'learning' PS4 is very good even without trying to learn about the consoles. So now you have to present the case in the favour of XB1. It has Kinect. Does your friend like that? If so, XB1 is the console for him. However, current sales suggest the masses aren't won over by Kinect, so it's not a great selling point. What other arguments can you present in XB1's favour? Does he like Halo? Get XB1. Does he not care too much for Halo? - then it doesn't matter which console. Tell him both consoles are the same price but PS4 plays the same games better, and see which console he prefers. As long as someone buying doesn't know the difference, they won't factor it into their choice, but otherwise on a tick-list of features were both machines have remarkable parity, how do you argue in favour of the less capable machine at the same price?

    That's not to say no-one anywhere is going to buy XB1, in case some people are misunderstanding. Only that without a clearly defined USP with mass consumer appeal, XB1 will be marginalised to a small niche. Some will get XB1 because it allows Skype while gaming. Others will get it for Kinect still. Some more might get it for the exclusive TV programmes, while others, the exclusive games, and others still the app integration with Windows. For the major part of the market though, there's no strong USP to drive the product. There's no clear message (there was with Kinect). Meanwhile, the mainstream press and gamer friends will be quietly educating Joe Consumer that both machines are the same price but PS4 is more powerful and sales will show it as the more popular machine.
     
  14. RancidLunchmeat

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    I disagree, would have been happy in any of the following circumstances:

    1) MS stuck to their original vision of a cloud based all DD console. I've got the bandwidth and don't need another BR player.
    2) MS stuck to their revised vision as demonstrated at the reveal with all their convoluted DRM to try to merge their original vision with the use of physical media. It wouldn't have impacted me, as my purchases would have been DD anyway.
    3) MS stuck to what they actually released and I was left to believe in their promise that they had games in the pipeline that would offer amazing experiences only available with Kinect.

    Instead, we've got a console now that has Zero of their original vision left and is merely a weaker performing PS4.

    Now, sure. Sticking to their original vision would have left their possible customer base to max out at hardcore 360 Live Gold members.

    But considering the only reasons anybody can provide as to why a customer would purchase a less powerful Xb0x at the same price as a more powerful PS4 is because they are hardcore 360 Live Gold members leads me to believe they'd have been no worse than where they are now after they've step by step removed every differentiating factor from their competition.
     
  15. RancidLunchmeat

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    It does? How does it do that without Kinect?

    (I'm asking because this is twice now you've stayed "skype" and "kinect" as two different possible selling points for those still favoring the Xb0x over the PS4.)
     
  16. RancidLunchmeat

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    You began by making a point about Netflix and the paywall and I disagreed with that as a basis for your conclusions.

    I think all this netflix/hulu paywall discussion is missing the fact that MS needed to move those things from behind the paywall not because of the Xb0x and its sales targets but because they want to position the 360 to compete with Boxee and Roku and the WD Players, etc.

    The difference here is that "the end" is still on-going, and the early adopters were those who were going to buy the Xb0x anyway, and all those who were so vocal that MS kept altering their vision to please weren't going to buy an Xb0x anyway.
     
  17. Scott_Arm

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    I agree that a lot of complaints about Xbox One were coming from people who would probably never buy it, but it was fairly obvious there were a lot of 360 gamers that were also displeased with Kinect and Xbox One, and Microsoft is now trying to make sure they don't all switch over to PS4.
     
  18. Davros

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    But now that the kinect is optional, those games havnt been canceled, they will still be released, what are they ?
     
  19. RancidLunchmeat

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    I agree. I also agree that they are doing it under clear budget constraints because otherwise the best option would have been a price reduction with Kinect still included. So they are left with trying to salvage a product that is now relatively crippled based upon what was originally envisioned for it and what choices they've made along the way try to expand their user base within a strict budget.


    Honestly, I don't believe there are any games. If there were any games in the pipeline that would have fulfilled the promise of Kinect they wouldn't have removed it. They would have stayed firm (this is a down time for sales anyway), until those games could be shown and would market the console accordingly. Those games would have demonstrated the value of the $100 premium.

    But they don't exist.
     
  20. Shifty Geezer

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    Kinect still works! If someone wants to use Skype, they'll buy a SKU with Kinect, or buy the Kinect peripheral.
     
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