Kinect-less XB1 fallout thread *spawn

[-tkf-]

Steam has allways online enabled by default and will try and revert you back to signing in again if you choose off line mode, trust me , it bugs me on my surface all the time. Whats more , if you want to share your game , then you have to play it in online mode.

Steam is a DD service, it's the foundation and reason for its existence, it's the core business idea, it never promised anything else. And still it was a better offering than the xb1, that was designed to kill 2nd hand sales. And as a bonus ended up taking its own DD platform hostage.

And it started out with one hour checks. While steam offers offline for months on several computers, something that a 7 year kid can handle (click no when steam stsrts)

Let's not forget the real reason why Microsoft is on trouble, large amounts of arrogance coupled with unreasonable customer offerings.

 

[Cyan]

Thanks. PC is not an option for me. I loathe Windows on my home PC(hate virus/spyware software & I don't want to game on a desktop or laptop but rather my TV) so I run Linux exclusively. I'm also not happy with the marginalization of Kinect either. But I agree Phil was a great choice to head their comeback. I just hope he's able to bring to fruition part of their original plan with digital game sharing. I think that's something that could differentiate between them & PS4(provided they don't do it themselves). I also don't agree that just because a lot of people are happy that Kinect is no longer required means lots of sales either. I think a lot of the vocal detractors of the inclusion of Kinect and/or the $500 price have probably already made their purchase decisions. I think it will take another $50 price drop to $350 before you start seeing strides made in sales. At $400 it will just limp along, the Titanfall bundle at $450 is proof of that.

Tommy McClain

You are afraid of things that can be controlled, somewhat, but I understand what you mean.

On your point regarding the detractors of Kinect, from what I've seen, it's quite the opposite.

Some original Xbox/X360 owners that were on the fence are now interested in the XB1 again once Kinect is out of the equation, they just don't want it -spies, privacy, not interested in using it..., the typical reasons-. :smile2:

This whole thing causes me to rethink some things, I think very few people have been so passionate about the Kinect as me, I've searched for news everywhere about it, to share and post here. Posted news sometimes even if my energy levels and my desire for discussion were extremely low.

This certainly made me rethink some of my ideas, 'cos I've wasted so much energy defending lost causes.

 

[BRiT]

The new pricing is still all wrong. Here is what they need to hit in order to move units.
$329 = Xbox One without Kinect
$429 = Xbox One with Kinect

Kinect One is dead now.

I wonder how this will impact Xbox Fitness after the first year free runs out, and their ability to attract titles to it.

Lets hope MS manage take a note from Sony and implement voice control with the normal chat microphone. I don't imagine that will be the case.

I wonder how much of a cluster fucking their title certifications requirements (TLCs?) are if you're in progress of making a Kinect game. Do you need to make it function without Kinect now? If so, that kills any and all future Kinect exclusive game controlls.

So much fail... *le sigh*

As someone else said, hopefully this pushes MS to double-down and push out a more capable and fully backward compatible XboxTwo in early 2016.

 

[AzBat]

Man, I can't understand disconnect here. The removal of Kinect from 1 SKU does not mean they need to open up those resources or have developers make new allowances for not having it installed. Remember MS already did that last year even before the system shipped. The system could function without Kinect being connected. Today's announcement was about how many of the total XB1 systems coming out will have a Kinect sensor standard. Developers making a full Kinect game can still do it. They will just need a note on the box that says "Requires Kinect". Those making hybrid Kinect games? Nothing's changed. It's treated just like it was on 360. Optional does not mean dead. MS were already having a hard time convincing devs to have novel uses for the sensor. I don't think today effects too many. Evidently Harmonix is probably the only one that has a legitimate gripe. I think Wavey is probably right, it probably opens up more market to Kinect later in its life. Maybe we'll see that other peripheral where Kinect's inclusion makes sense. Right now? Hardcore gamers don't want it.

Settle down folks. LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[BRiT]

Hardcore gamers don't want a weaker system at the same price point either. So why go down that path? This makes Kinect completely worthless as it's now non-standard and no developer can count on it as being standard.

Here's the same questions and discussion we've had before. Why waste any developer resources targeting a non-standard addon? This kills Kinect's only chance of taking off, but may save the Xbox One platform.

 

[AzBat]

Hardcore gamers don't want a weaker system at the same price point either. So why go down that path? This makes Kinect completely worthless as it's now non-standard and no developer can count on it as being standard.

Here's the same questions and discussion we've had before. Why waste any developer resources targeting a non-standard addon? This kills Kinect's only chance of taking off, but may save the Xbox One platform.

Who thinks that it will stay at the same price point forever? MS specifically didn't call today's announcement a price drop. They are still going to sell the Kinect SKU at $500. So I still think a price drop is coming. They already know they can't stay at $500 with Kinect for very long. Ergo they can't stay at $400 without Kinect for very long either. If MS is not taking any losses at $400 without Kinect, then sales would have to tank even more for them to drop the price below $400 before fall. Fall is better timing for a price drop.

I will say that I think your last comment is probably spot on though. Best to sacrifice Kinect now instead of the whole platform later. That's something I bet Nintendo wished they could have done with WiiU & their gamepad.

Tommy McClain

 

[Jwm]

Hardcore gamers don't want a weaker system at the same price point either. So why go down that path? This makes Kinect completely worthless as it's now non-standard and no developer can count on it as being standard.

Here's the same questions and discussion we've had before. Why waste any developer resources targeting a non-standard addon? This kills Kinect's only chance of taking off, but may save the Xbox One platform.

Fully agree with your bold point, it comes down to controller preference but there is a workaround for this as well to a degree. Ha!

I do not get the new pricing, it does seem as the division must make money immediately to brush aside investor pressure? Otherwise why not keep Kinect, drop the price way down and build the install base to get the software sales.

That or they are actually confident in what they have planned for E3, maybe 1st party games will be spectacular. The media and their own PR are not helping, while not doomed it sure continues to be a cluster.

Some media outlets talking about Kinect being over $100 when it does go on sale, so way above any impulse buy range. The only good news is those that pick up a new sku, can wait for a used Kinect as some will surely trade in some soon. Old Kinect is what $109 new, and $39 used (roughly in spots).

Media Center really needs to be in the box, I guess I have been using it 10-years or more? I have no desire to upgrade based on other systems I have seen, yet to use it on X1 I have to keep my 360 in place. At least my winter heating bill was much lower.

 

[Shortbread]

MS will more than likely drop the new sku price around mid November. It makes sense (business wise) to capture all you can at $399, then at $299 around the holiday season and there after.

All this doom and gloom talk, especially from those I considered diehard XB warriors, is somewhat ridiculous. Sure MS might not capture the market share they once enjoyed with the XB360, but that shouldn't stop people (gamers) from enjoying the system. MS has some great games coming across the horizon. Personally, I'm enjoying my PCs and PS4, and maybe in the future I will purchase XB1 for Gears of War return and a few other titles.

 

[Devious]

I might be the only one on this, but I really hope they drop the price of the Xbox 360. My OG Xbox 360's disc tray is on its last legs because I keep getting that damn "Open Tray" error and I have to constantly open and close the disc tray for it to read a game. And I honestly don't feel like opening up my 360 again just to try and fix it.

If they get the price of the Xbox 360 Slim/E models down, I would gladly buy another one. And gaming on the One and then onto the 360 is bad because now I have a jet engine going off in my room.

 

[specwarGP2]

MS must have some really good games up its sleeve if it thinks it can go toe to toe with Sony at $399.

 

[kalelovil]

MS will more than likely drop the new sku price around mid November. It makes sense (business wise) to capture all you can at $399, then at $299 around the holiday season and there after.

Considering the indications being given by AMD and Nvidia that TSMC's 20nm process will not be price/area competitive with the existing 28nm one until sometime during 2015, I highly doubt we will see either the PS4 or Xbox One reach US$300 this year as neither company will want a per-unit deficit.

 

[shredenvain]

The new pricing is still all wrong. Here is what they need to hit in order to move units.
$329 = Xbox One without Kinect
$429 = Xbox One with Kinect

Kinect One is dead now.

I wonder how this will impact Xbox Fitness after the first year free runs out, and their ability to attract titles to it.

Lets hope MS manage take a note from Sony and implement voice control with the normal chat microphone. I don't imagine that will be the case.

I wonder how much of a cluster fucking their title certifications requirements (TLCs?) are if you're in progress of making a Kinect game. Do you need to make it function without Kinect now? If so, that kills any and all future Kinect exclusive game controlls.

So much fail... *le sigh*

As someone else said, hopefully this pushes MS to double-down and push out a more capable and fully backward compatible XboxTwo in early 2016.

Im not happy about Kinect being optional either. I agree they should have just dropped the price to 429. One part of me looks at it as Ms providing a choice to consumers. I have to completely disagree with a 2016 release of a new console. That has never worked for those who tried it. It would put said new Xbox(2016) in the same position as the Dreamcast.
No matter how much the Dreamcast is loved it killed Sega. I really think you guys are making too much out of the difference in Gpu power. The bottom line is the games will be exactly the same on both systems with a difference in resolution being anywhere from 1080p to 900p or 900p to 7xxp. Come on I know the people on beyond care alot about this difference but alot of gamers are still playing on 720p sets. So far all multiplat games have the same assets on both consoles. There are alot of great games that are coming out for the X1 that is what is important. It is so laughable that people are making such a big damn deal about this when this console has sold 5 million in 6 months. They couldnt even make 5 million properly working 360s or Ps3s in the first 6 months of last gen. I would hate if every other business in the world worked like you guys want this one to. 2nd place 6 months into a release means death of a division to some of you. If anyone besides Nintendo releases a new system in the next 2 years it will create a vicious 3 year max generation for all 3 companies. That is not called for in this situation.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Kinect Dropped from X1 ? wow, frankly I had thought they would remain adamant.

So, I still get a weaker hardware than PS4. Bring it down to where it should be cost vs hardware wise, but having a ps4 already I still don't see myself buying any mutli platform game for it so my ps4 still feels a better buy in every way.

I am yet to see any exclusive that can make me buy it. RE4, MGS and GOW made me buy a ps2 over the powerful Xbox at that time. I don't see anything like that now, atleast anyhting that interest me and that I cannot have on the ps4, that too with better visuals.

But, again, I did not think they would take away Kinect so fast. So fast ! I mean, it isn't even CHristmas yet and they just killed Kinect already ! I see desperation, not confidence in their E3 showing. ALthough I am sure they will have a fab presentation as usual, but If they are so sure of their E3 they wouldn't have to completely "remove" kinect. They are killing the peripheral, like usually Sony does for each of its peripherals after 6 months.

Unless, Kinect isn't being used by any devs meaningfully anyways and there's no point in shoving it along anymore. ut I don't buy that either. MS wouldn't throw it in if they didn't have a clear idea of what could be done with it. As for voice commands, one needs only a mic for it, as shown by TR on the ps4, not a whole pricey kinect.

 

[fehu]

Considering the indications being given by AMD and Nvidia that TSMC's 20nm process will not be price/area competitive with the existing 28nm one until sometime during 2015, I highly doubt we will see either the PS4 or Xbox One reach US$300 this year as neither company will want a per-unit deficit.

The soc are so much expensive to dictate the price reduction?

And about the new model.
I've seen the titanfall bundle at 449€, and if I remember correctly, a second controller and a month of free live too

 

[kalelovil]

The soc are so much expensive to dictate the price reduction?

Although I have no unique insight into the minds of Microsoft and Sony, I think so. Xbox 360 hardware revisions were generally based around die shrinks.

Keep in mind that a die shrink allows a number of other components to be reduced as well.
Lower power consumption (the SoC being the key power consumer in these consoles) leads to a smaller and less expensive power supply and cooling system. A smaller cooling system potentially allows the total volume of the device to be lowered allowing material savings.

Where else could they reduce per-unit costs? I suppose they could offer a model without a Blu-ray drive, but that would only be a feasible purchase for a portion of their user-base.

 

[Strange]

I think this move more or less just solidifies the general consumer's perception of the two consoles. Before this there was a "okay, there's a Kinect which I don't know the value, and it may be more than 100USD, thus I'm buying cheaper hardware than the PS4" argument which may justify the performance gap.

Right now, with both consoles sitting at 399 without kinect, that possibility is officially out the window.
In reality what's the hardware difference that "matters" now? (In the sense that you can really pinpoint how it affects the console) The only thing I can say off the top of my head is that one has better performance and the other has HDMI-in, and although the HDMI-in is a nice addon, and it's hard for me to keep a straight face and that the HDMI-in is a good trade.

And people are acting as if the PS4 can't stand a price-cut whenever Sony wants. Of course there's little to no reason for Sony to cut the price, but we can see Sony simply matching whatever XB1 is doing to solidify the "more power for the same price" argument.

 

[Rangers]

And people are acting as if the PS4 can't stand a price-cut whenever Sony wants. Of course there's little to no reason for Sony to cut the price, but we can see Sony simply matching whatever XB1 is doing to solidify the "more power for the same price" argument.

Sony game division just reported losses again

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-05-14-sonys-game-division-reports-full-year-loss

And their execs returned bonuses

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-05-13-sony-executives-to-return-bonuses

Coupled with GDDR5, and an already quite reasonable price, I never thought the prospect of a PS4 price cut anytime soon was remotely reasonable. By the same logic skills, the X1 cut seemed obvious.

I'd say the next likely cut still belongs to MS, or they will go in tandem matching each other. Whether in 6 months or three years. There wont be a lot of room to cut PS4 for a good while, whereas I think MS can go to $349 pretty easily if needed. But a ton obviously depends on sales, MS is greedy, and if X1 is selling comfortably with PS4 after the 399 dust settles, they likely wont do more for a while.

 

[fehu]

I think that in the first year and maybe second, there are for anyone only losses due to R&D, first batch is always more expensive, the userbase is too small to compensate with software sales

Ok, maybe not for the wii...

 

[Rangers]

It is funny the same thing is happening with Kinect as DRM...

"We hate DRM, it's horrible get rid of it"

*no DRM*

"Xbox 180 LOL"

"Bring it back it was super innovative and loads of benefits and now Xbox is just like PS4 I'm quitting Xbox"

Kinect:

"we hate Kinect it's spying on us and horrible and forced on me and I will never buy Xbox until Kinect is gone"

*Kinect goes*

"Waah Kinect was the best thing about the system the innovation is gone waah"

"Xbox 180 LOL"

I know I know, not the same people, in theory. People representing each viewpoint just chooses to go completely silent at different coincidental times.

Anyways Boogie (famous youtube gamer dude) is sometimes pretty reasonable, his take

[YT]0m1hqkTea2I[/media]

As someone who still doesn't have a One, it makes me wonder if I'll be missing out, seeing how much Boogie likes his Kinect. He's more of a Sony guy as well which only adds credibility to his opinion imo.

 

[Rangers]

The other shoe drops

http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/13/5713874/more-powerful-xbox-one-kinect

Microsoft: Dropping Kinect could free up extra processing power in Xbox One

The console's architecture gives the game operating system a fixed reservation of CPU power and the same is true for Kinect, he said.

"We have special processors for Kinect that enables a bunch of really cool things like part of what you saw today, when Yusuf was like in Internet Explorer and said 'Go to home' or 'Go to ESPN'," Kilgore said at the time. "He also said 'Go to Halo' and when he was in Halo he could have gone somewhere else. So the system is always listening, kind of outside of the game, which is really different from the 360 model, once you get into the game, it's really only the game code that is running. So we can extend all that in our system versus it being tied up in the game code."

But Mehdi said that could change now.

"We are in discussions with our game publishers about what we might do in this space and we will have more to talk about soon," he said.

Not expecting miracles, but this is a good thing.