John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware

Getting off topic, when you test games with different controls, it's pretty clear that people don't want to learn how to use a controller if they think the game could be mapped to the sticks and most dismiss anything different out of hand. There were other issues with the 6 axis that hurt it, notably it wasn't very accurate, which led to frustrating experiences.

It's interesting that this extends into UI for genre's where a single game defines a genre, if you're doing a football game, the interface pretty much has to work more or less like Madden because if it doesn't Madden players dismiss it and you lose the bulk of your potential audience.

Interfaces like Kinect/Move kind of get away with it because they are trying to do something very different, and I suspect people don't go back to the I wish I could just move the joystick to do this.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but the PS3 didn't ship with a motion sensible pad at release, it got sold a while later. (a year ?)
Not sure how much sells that account for, but would have an impact on devs for sure.
 
The PS3 was released with motion controls from the start. It was demonstrated at E3 before release and the first commercials tried to show the feature. The Sixaxis controller was called that exactly for that reason: Able to detect motions from all angles and sides.
What you remember is the vibration. The PS3 controller was not released with vibration functionality until some time earlier which became the Dual Shock 3
 
You can have faster turning, faster enemies, better aiming and loads of other stuff if you have a higher frame rate.

If you do not experience things, how can you have an opinion it. You can say that Crysis 2 is great, but you cannot say that Crysis 2 is better than Rage because you have not experienced Rage.

Do you judge food by photographs as well?

None of the stuff you mentioned fundamentally changes the gameplay.

Sigh, I never said Rage sucks, originally, I said megatexture looks unspectacular and weird to me. That's it. said NOTHING about the quality of gameplay, nothing! You've gone completely off on a strawman.

There is a common thread in reviews that Rage is a bit rote and tiresome, though. The reason I didn't pick it up at the time. That and strongly mixed message board opinion.

Have you even played Crysis 2 for that matter? Not that it matters but I have a funny feeling you didnt and that would be funny.
 
The PS3 was released with motion controls from the start. It was demonstrated at E3 before release and the first commercials tried to show the feature. The Sixaxis controller was called that exactly for that reason: Able to detect motions from all angles and sides.
What you remember is the vibration. The PS3 controller was not released with vibration functionality until some time earlier which became the Dual Shock 3

Ah that's it ! ty !
 
Sigh, I never said Rage sucks, originally, I said megatexture looks unspectacular and weird to me. That's it. said NOTHING about the quality of gameplay, nothing! You've gone completely off on a strawman.

There is a common thread in reviews that Rage is a bit rote and tiresome, though. The reason I didn't pick it up at the time. That and strongly mixed message board opinion.

Have you even played Crysis 2 for that matter? Not that it matters but I have a funny feeling you didnt and that would be funny.

I have never played Crysis 2. But I have never compared Crysis 2 to any other game either. I have only played the demo of Rage and that was really boring.

Why is the fact that I have not played Crysis funny? I find it strange that you think something you have never experienced look "unspectacular and weird".
 
None of the stuff you mentioned fundamentally changes the gameplay.

I think aiming and moving are the most fundamental mechanics in a FPS. Imagine the differences in a FPS where you can turn 1 degree per second versus one where you can turn 100 degrees per second. They would not play similar in any way.
 
COD 5, 6, 7 on PS360 may lose sales due to FPS fatigue, but on an HMD they'd definitely sell more.
COD 5, 6, and 7 are already out. They did pretty well. ;)

That said, I know what you're getting at, and I don't think you can take that as a given because HMD isn't pure advantage. It allows more realistic display and being able to look around, but also adds eyestrain, possible neck fatigue, and the loss of local multiplayer (at least not without significant added cost). Until some radical new technology arrives that addresses all those issues, I don't think you can assume it will generate a lot of interest. Especially not if it's a peripheral.
 
The PS3 was released with motion controls from the start. It was demonstrated at E3 before release and the first commercials tried to show the feature.
Yeah. Every PS3 controller has motion in it, yet it sees almost no use at all.

That said, I know what you're getting at, and I don't think you can take that as a given because HMD isn't pure advantage. It allows more realistic display and being able to look around, but also adds eyestrain, possible neck fatigue, and the loss of local multiplayer (at least not without significant added cost). Until some radical new technology arrives that addresses all those issues, I don't think you can assume it will generate a lot of interest. Especially not if it's a peripheral.
Going by my ill-informed preconceptions of the typical COD enthusiast, as a corporate exec I'd back the idea 100%. These COD fans would be all over the 'it's just like being there!' new experience. I don't think local split-screen is a big factor in the franchises' popularity, and I doubt Joe Gamer would stop to read up about eye-strain or neck-fatigue prior to preordering the system anf Facebooking/Tweeting how excited they are. The tech could improve rapidly. Sony have an electronic viewfinder for their cameras that's a 1024x768 panel 1cm wide (that's voer 1500 dpi! :oops:), in a unit weighing 26 grams. A headset could definitely be made with the batteries at the back (or rather, spread around the mount) and pretty comfortable. Not better than no headset, but not a detractor from those wanting to be in the battlefield.
 
That's extremely unnaturally and untennable, unless you are standing.
Why? (Taking into account that if the character rotates from stick/mouse input the view rotates along with it ... the head tracking is simply an additional rotation on top of the normal one.)
 
I have never played Crysis 2. But I have never compared Crysis 2 to any other game either. I have only played the demo of Rage and that was really boring.

Why is the fact that I have not played Crysis funny? I find it strange that you think something you have never experienced look "unspectacular and weird".

I was commenting on the graphics which can be observed in screens or videos.

I think aiming and moving are the most fundamental mechanics in a FPS. Imagine the differences in a FPS where you can turn 1 degree per second versus one where you can turn 100 degrees per second. They would not play similar in any way.

You seemed to imply 60FPS implied fundamentally different gameplay mechanics made possible, not just allegedly improved ones. Anyways, the vast majority of FPS and all games are 30 FPS.
 
The gameplay is refreshingly different from all other shooters, it's far more dynamic and the weapons are more varied.

Refreshingly different in what way?

Also, how is it more dynamic when you don't have destroyable scenery, moving scenery (well, there's a lift in the second act). You can't jump on basically anything you see as there's invisible walls everywhere. You see enemies jump over tables to take cover but when you try to do it you can't. They basically deprecated jumping: it's used in a handful of places so you find a few hidden shotgun shells or a playing card.

Weapons are more varied? Punching, Pistol, Shotgun, Mechine gun, Sniper Rifle, Crossbow and RocketLauncher. Alternate ammo that basically mimics other weapons like grenade launchers. It's the same array of weapons we've had since DOOM (I'm fine with that btw, but I wouldn't call them more varied). Spider bots, turrets and RC cars are the only novelties and plenty of other games have had them (spider bots are lifted from DOOM 3 even). They're still nice to have but the game makes poor use of them. Of course you could be referring to the no-skill-instant-kill boomerang, which coupled with a laughingly small engineering price, health-regen and auto-revive means you only die out of sheer boredom.

But in case you get the wrong idea I actually liked Rage. On the dedicated thread I said it's a solid 8/10 game. But for me, Crysis 2 is the better game. If Rage didn't have invisible walls everywhere, if it had a proper ending, and a plot that made sense: resistance has this huge world-wide army of freedom fighters and yet, they've been waiting on one guy to go alone into a fortress and push a button? Sorry, two buttons. If it mattered (it doesn't) Raine isn't the only ark-survivor in the resistance! If Rage wasn't so easy that I beat the game first time on ultra-violence WITH a gamepad and found no challenge whatsoever. If the core gameplay mechanics (move, shoot, look) weren't the same as we had in DOOM 3 it would have beat Crysis 2, even with the low resolution textures and static environments.

Speaking of grahics:

Rage has preserved the artistic vision of the concept artist far better than any other game I've seen. Texture resolution is not artistic vision.

Not all concepts are drawings, a concept could be an animation of train derailing and plowing through station taking down pillars, vending machines while people run away. Another concept could be the sun setting on Raine as he drives through dead city. Rage can't pull any of that off convincingly because it abhors dynamic geometry/lights. Forget day/night cycles, Rage doesn't even have moving clouds. Remember Unreal 1's skies?

Didn't you notice right in the first level of the game you have to go into (Ghost Clan) how the light given off by the torches was static all the while the torch's fire was billowing and changing in intensity? Didn't that automatically cancel your suspension of disbelief? Weren't you otherwise bothered any time your car went through the shadow of a canyon wall and you saw your vehicle shadow flip around because it was now being projected from a different point in space?

It's funny because in DOOM 3, screenshots didn't do the game justice as the game was only truly experienced while playing (or in videos). Because that's the only way you could appreciate the dynamic lights and shadows, the bumpmapping and specular highlights, the multitude of dynamic geometry that permeated the levels. While moving, the harshness of the shadow volumes and the low-polycount of the models almost faded away. Rage is the complete opposite. It looks great in screenshots but doesn't hold up, at all, while moving.

So, if Carmack thinks he should dedicate his time to VR goggles it's perfectly fine by me. Honest! I want my holodeck too. I didn't even know latency was so high on HMDs so I'm happy that Carmack is helping get that down. I'd only be worried if Tim, Tiago, Sebbi, Repii, and others graphics programmers/engineers/directors that are pushing the envelope decided to drop what they are doing.
 
This guy is right, again.

Couple this with the google glasses...
I think AR will have a future for laser quest type games and LARPing ... but I don't see what's the point of it in a living room environment UNLESS they are cheap enough that a significant number of people will have enough of them to play something like an AR board game with them, which I doubt they will be in time for the next gen consoles.
 
Going by my ill-informed preconceptions of the typical COD enthusiast, as a corporate exec I'd back the idea 100%. These COD fans would be all over the 'it's just like being there!' new experience.
COD's success isn't driven by graphical novelty, or Black Ops would have been a dud (it was a significant visual step back from MW2). It's driven by the content--nothing beats COD on maps, modes, or player customization. If people get bored of what COD offers as a game, a graphical gimmick won't revive its sales. If that were the case, normal mapping and fancy lighting would have revived the sagging Tony Hawk IP, but it didn't.
I don't think local split-screen is a big factor in the franchises' popularity
I think local multiplayer is the most underappreciated feature in gaming today. Developers don't think about it because they all have the machine and a TV sitting on their desks, and we don't think about it because (I think) we're almost all in our thirties on this board and either living alone or have families, but as a university educator, I can assure you it's a huge deal to my students, both in frat houses and in dorms because they talk about it all the time. Without local multiplayer, Halo and COD wouldn't rule the dorm. If they don't rule the undergrads, they're not going to suddenly capture them when they turn 25, either. You also lose 100% of "I played this with a friend and want to buy it now" sales.

Seriously, find me a shooter that sold over 5 million units on the Xbox that has no local multiplayer. You can't, because it doesn't exist. I doubt anything will convince you, because conventional wisdom is that boys/young men ages 13-21 don't play video games with friends any more (either that, or they're irrelevant), but I think the conventional wisdom is driven entirely by thirtysomethings in the industry projecting their habits onto the rest of the world. I think if you've got an action game that you're not going to let high school and college students play together in the same room, you are putting a hard limit on your cross-platform sales of around 4-5 million units.
and I doubt Joe Gamer would stop to read up about eye-strain or neck-fatigue prior to preordering the system anf Facebooking/Tweeting how excited they are.
You can't sustain a product based on hype and preorders if it causes pain and suffering, because word of mouth works like this:

"Hey man, how's that headset for the PS4?"
"It f***ing sucks, brah. Hurts my eyes."
"S*** for realz?"
"Don't buy one. Waste of good beer money dude bro."

That's, of course, contingent on the technology.
 
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I was commenting on the graphics which can be observed in screens or videos.

You wrote: "Crysis 2 looked better with lots of dynamism rather than everything static!" It is kind of difficult to rate Crysis' and Rage's looks based on videos because almost all video that is available removes what makes Rage look good (the fluidity) and improves on what I assume makes Crysis look bad (lack of fluidity). Rating the game base on screen shots is just retarded.

Now, if you find enjoyment comparing game graphics based on videos, good for you! However, the most important thing for a game is to bring enjoyment to the player who is playing the game. And to know your own opinion regarding that, you actually have to play the game.
 
You seemed to imply 60FPS implied fundamentally different gameplay mechanics made possible, not just allegedly improved ones. Anyways, the vast majority of FPS and all games are 30 FPS.

Most two wheeled vehicles are bicycles :)
 
Graphics are the easy thing to sell, however they don't make a game, although they can break a game.

There's nothing like seeing the game live or playing it, no screenshot or video in the world can compare, as long as you don't have any correlation between your input and the reaction on screen/audio you have no worthy information.
 
Perhaps the best example of that is something like Lair, which took a unique approach to controls which gamers at large just didn't like. Doesn't matter how good that game did or didn't look when it felt as rough as it did (going by other people's experiences - I never played it).
 
You wrote: "Crysis 2 looked better with lots of dynamism rather than everything static!" It is kind of difficult to rate Crysis' and Rage's looks based on videos because almost all video that is available removes what makes Rage look good (the fluidity) and improves on what I assume makes Crysis look bad (lack of fluidity). Rating the game base on screen shots is just retarded.

Now, if you find enjoyment comparing game graphics based on videos, good for you! However, the most important thing for a game is to bring enjoyment to the player who is playing the game. And to know your own opinion regarding that, you actually have to play the game.

Yeh well, I've played the Rage demo on 360 too. Now what? Move on to your next strawman. It actually looks good/great in it's own way. And 60 FPS is awesome too. But it has it's weaknesses too (eg, close textures, an overall feeling of lack of dynamism).

So you've never played Crysis but you're "assuming" on what makes it look bad, while your whole thrust of attack is based on claiming I'm assuming x y and z about rage based only on videos and screens.

I also disagree you cant tell anything about a games graphics from videos or screens. That's just false. Obviously. Go look at an 8-bit game on youtube and compare it to current gen and tell me you cant tell any difference.

Now if all you care about is superficial looks and framerate, then maybe Rage is for you. I like interactivity and fun in games.

PS the above sentence is sarcasm, just using the same line of attack you keep using on me back at you.
 
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