John Carmack "not all that excited" by next-gen hardware
- Thread starter Alucardx23
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Well, in FPS is easy, because the head tracking moves the camera, while the mouse/gamepad moves the character and the weapon.Well, on Carmac's new console I guess that will be all it can play.Someone should develop HMD for FPs games, absolutely, but as a plug-in add-on for a console.
Also how would it work for gaming in a chair? I think it'd be a bit unnatural, although gamers may acclimatise. But if you turn your head right to look over there, and then turn the controller right, what you were looking at will pass left across your FOV because you'll be turning a virtual player who's head is to the right. Players would have to learn to track objects with their head as the thumbstick turns. Super-fast shooters would be impossible. Definitely, a complete immersion surround vision and sound system would be an incredible experience, dropping you in a warzone or somesuch. But the actual playability might suffer, and it's not an easy fix with handheld controls. You'd need to at least be standing and moving. And things like leg-tracking would be impossible without amazing haptics, because when you moved your real leg to tread on a virtual log, you'd see your virtual leg hit the log while you'd feel your real leg pass through it. that's just not going to work.
I just think the idea is a little overrated.
You bother to put on pants while you game?
I thought everyone settled for just underwear...(That was a joke, btw. ...Mostly.
)You know a lot of the same arguments were/are made for Kinect
So before we crucify HMD for what it isn't it is worth considering what it offers
My first at B3D was about HMD (I am a fan), but I think one of the bigger HMD issues is "hazards." As some know I recently had major surgery for a couple issues, one being a bad balance issue. I have never had balance issues before but have discovered a) they are more common than I knew b) they can come on any time on any person and c) you think you can control yourself when indeed you cannot. Any HMD would need to take extreme safety precautions for a general audience release.
That said an HMD (defined as googles and head tracking) would be a nice step in the direction of making major genres better. e.g. FPS are obvious (free look) but the same goes for driving games. Another less obvious example is sports--it would revolutionize playing NFL/NCAA QB gameplay. And of course a combo HMD+Kinect where you are in your RPG and your hands can be seen (augmented reality) and you could do basic tasks with your hands would be totally awesome.
Actually, with the Kinect 2 I am hoping in Halo 5 Master Chief, the oh great leader of men, can do basic hand gestures or voice commands to tell his comrades to flank left/right, fall back, or attack so I can have a little deeper gameplay
Or:
Left Stick: Forward & Back, Straif Left/Right
Right Stick: 360 degree rotation.
HMD: Vertical Look, center point panning (e.g. 80 degrees both directions from mid-line) and the Free-Look is also your aim.
Basically like an Apache where where you look is where you aim. You use the sticks for gross orientation and the HMD for fine aim.
Apache pilots don't have the same high level requirements as core gamers. Only a 15mm analogue stick is accurate enough for core gamers.
That's extremely unnaturally and untennable, unless you are standing. And forced standing is a major limitation to gaming as a relaxing hobby.
I would simply have replaced the mouse look with the headset...
I wonder if there's any benefit controling head, arms and body separately.
(Although it might be quite hard/exhausting to aim properly that way.)
I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one bored of "more of the same", about time he got bored too ;p
I wonder if there's any benefit controling head, arms and body separately.
(Although it might be quite hard/exhausting to aim properly that way.)
I'm happy to see that I'm not the only one bored of "more of the same", about time he got bored too ;p
Prophecy2k
Veteran
I Shifty's earlier point is a rather crucial one.
First person games are great with a HMD, but everything else wouldn't see any real benefit.
That said I would certainly buy a HMD to play Gran Turismo 6. Together with a good steering wheel and pedal set, that would be pretty epic.
Also, If Sony decided to stop punishing us all and release a Colony Wars for PS4, with some kind of joystick peripheral and a HMD, now that would be some seriously incredible gaming right there
On FPS games, I wonder if a HMD combined with something like a MOVE controller and Nav would be any good. Headtracking on the HMD would be much better for turning and panning the camera, whilst the Move would serve as the pointer for the aim reticule. You would do movement on the nav of course. I reckon that would be much better than the current system for FPS game control. Certainly not "real" or "natural" VR, but at least an improvement in immersion from what we have now. I imagine playing KZ4 with that and I get giddy with excitement.
First person games are great with a HMD, but everything else wouldn't see any real benefit.
That said I would certainly buy a HMD to play Gran Turismo 6. Together with a good steering wheel and pedal set, that would be pretty epic.
Also, If Sony decided to stop punishing us all and release a Colony Wars for PS4, with some kind of joystick peripheral and a HMD, now that would be some seriously incredible gaming right there
On FPS games, I wonder if a HMD combined with something like a MOVE controller and Nav would be any good. Headtracking on the HMD would be much better for turning and panning the camera, whilst the Move would serve as the pointer for the aim reticule. You would do movement on the nav of course. I reckon that would be much better than the current system for FPS game control. Certainly not "real" or "natural" VR, but at least an improvement in immersion from what we have now. I imagine playing KZ4 with that and I get giddy with excitement.
I Shifty's earlier point is a rather crucial one.
First person games are great with a HMD, but everything else wouldn't see any real benefit.
That said I would certainly buy a HMD to play Gran Turismo 6. Together with a good steering wheel and pedal set, that would be pretty epic.
Also, If Sony decided to stop punishing us all and release a Colony Wars for PS4, with some kind of joystick peripheral and a HMD, now that would be some seriously incredible gaming right there
On FPS games, I wonder if a HMD combined with something like a MOVE controller and Nav would be any good. Headtracking on the HMD would be much better for turning and panning the camera, whilst the Move would serve as the pointer for the aim reticule. You would do movement on the nav of course. I reckon that would be much better than the current system for FPS game control. Certainly not "real" or "natural" VR, but at least an improvement in immersion from what we have now. I imagine playing KZ4 with that and I get giddy with excitement.
I think I would just keep the Move and Navigation controller the way it works in Killzone and then add the HMD completely independently.
I would also still be interested in a dual Move solution where one Move controls all movement, and the other is an independent pointer / arm (can be interchangeable).
This may require some sort of augmented reality, so you can see your "real steering wheel" easily even with the HMD. Of course, that can be quite cool (imagine a "real" dashboard, maybe with some green patches, where the speed and revs are displayed via HMD but you can still touch them).
And sprain your neck every time you want to turn around quickly? No thank you. No turning coupled to head movement thank you, that'd suck bigtime.
That's one of the physical constraints chanign the nature of the games that could be supported with an HMD. Fast paced shooters would be impossible (or dizzying!), but realistic shooters would be extremely realistic.
Wii/Move and Kinect, and EyeToy before them, have offered loads of opportunity for something different, but the developers haven't been particularly interested. Oh, and sixaxis control, taht was used for only a few gimmicks in the early days and then dropped. Even motion flight in Starhawk, which was very good, has been dropped needlessly from Starhawk. Developers just keep churning out more of the same, perhaps because titles that differ a lot don't tend to do well commercially? (How did Datura do on PS3?) An HMD console will still have the same old racers and shooters and interactive movie experiences etc. Devs won't branch out into new genres just because the display is realistic. Heck, HMD would encourage more of the same because the same game ideas could be resold as more realistic. COD 5, 6, 7 on PS360 may lose sales due to FPS fatigue, but on an HMD they'd definitely sell more.
Well controls are critical as they are the way we interact with games.
As for why they didn't try harder after the initial release, I would guess people discarded it as gimmicky or they didn't manage to get it right and so went back to more familiar grounds...
(Although the fact only the Wii got a guaranteed motion controller, I can understand that it could be considered only as an alternative control scheme on PS360 and then got canned.)
As for why they didn't try harder after the initial release, I would guess people discarded it as gimmicky or they didn't manage to get it right and so went back to more familiar grounds...
(Although the fact only the Wii got a guaranteed motion controller, I can understand that it could be considered only as an alternative control scheme on PS360 and then got canned.)
Apparently you're angry with Carmack for some reason and quite biased in your points.
The gameplay is refreshingly different from all other shooters, it's far more dynamic and the weapons are more varied.
Rage has preserved the artistic vision of the concept artist far better than any other game I've seen. Texture resolution is not artistic vision.
I could go on but there's no point...
PS3 got guaranteed motion controls from the off. Sixaxis implementation lacked vision and dedication from all parties. There's an old discussion around here of ideas we forumites had regards sixaxis implementation, showing lots of potential, all quietly ignored. If you loko at tablets, seems to me there's the same lack of innovation regards potential. Either we have basic drag controls or ghastly dual-thumb simulation.
There are plenty more gametypes that can be mapped to dual stick or motion controls. It might not be as perfect as other methods, but it is possible. Devs refuse to explore these options, and I see no reason to believe a new control or display format will change their approach. Were there any Wii FPS titles that did something fundamentally different to PS360 FPSes on account of the Wiimote, or are their the same run+gun mechanics just with a different aiming mechanism?
Prophecy2k
Veteran
You wouldn't even need that because GT's cockpit view has the simulated hands and steering wheel that would suffice imho. Just being able to look around within the cabin would be fantastic with a HMD
Much better than headtracking on a big screen from 6 ft away.Prophecy2k
Veteran
Sadly this is true.
It's a real shame too. It's not only the gamers that can be close minded in this industry, but the developers too (which is even worse).
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