Jim Ryan Leaving Sony in March 2024

[Seanspeed]

Even ignoring the crashes and corrupt saves, NMS was completely broken because it was impossible to complete, or even half complete, the main story for about first three.

This definitely isn't at all true, cuz there were people who were 'completing' the game very soon after launch, which is how we got all the hubbub about how completely shallow and ridiculous the actual 'ending' was.

In fact, the link you showed there isn't about about the launch at all, it's for a very large update patch they introduced later. And these patches were introduced pretty quickly after. There's very few very large updates these days that wont require some further minor updates to patch up holes. Take a large and ambitious game, and make a reasonably large update, and you're absolutely going to have to work further on new issues that arise once pushed out.

It's just a weird example, cuz Hello Games are probably some of the most productive and expedient developers for a large scale game like this I've ever seen. And like 99% of the complaints at launch had nothing at all to do with the game being 'completely broken'.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I don't know how much Jim is responsible for Sony's recent moves with trying to force their in house cream of the crop studios into gaas factories but I hope they reverse course on that. They need a steady stream of income but that should be much more selective process. If you throw all your best people at this and then it fails your up a creek. Gaas investment is infinitely more lucrative than single player games but also infinitely more damaging by failure

 

[Deleted member 11852]

This definitely isn't at all true, cuz there were people who were 'completing' the game very soon after launch, which is how we got all the hubbub about how completely shallow and ridiculous the actual 'ending' was.

Apologies, I should have said "more many".

In fact, the link you showed there isn't about about the launch at all, it's for a very large update patch they introduced later.

My first run of No Man's Sky I hit a point where a quest wouldn't trigger and couldn't progress. The patch didn't fix that. I'd add that the corrupt save bug was a recurring one. It was there a launch, and was supposedly fixed but it returned more than once in content patches. I have played - or tried - to play No Man's Sky a lot and own it on both PS4/PS5 and PC. I don't know how much you've played it, but perhaps I played it more and saw more bugs?

It's just a weird example, cuz Hello Games are probably some of the most productive and expedient developers for a large scale game like this I've ever seen. And like 99% of the complaints at launch had nothing at all to do with the game being 'completely broken'.

Things like are subjective. If you've lost thirty hours, as I did over two separate saves and attempts to play the game, it feels completely broken. And whilst Hello Games did patch the game, that prevented future corrupt saves, it didn't fix already corrupted saves. Sure, this happens, when The Last of Us launched in 2013, it had an auto-save bug as well. I found I had to replay the first two hours.

 

[Seanspeed]

Apologies, I should have said "more many".


My first run of No Man's Sky I hit a point where a quest wouldn't trigger and couldn't progress. The patch didn't fix that. I'd add that the corrupt save bug was a recurring one. It was there a launch, and was supposedly fixed but it returned more than once in content patches. I have played - or tried - to play No Man's Sky a lot and own it on both PS4/PS5 and PC. I don't know how much you've played it, but perhaps I played it more and saw more bugs?


Things like are subjective. If you've lost thirty hours, as I did over two separate saves and attempts to play the game, it feels completely broken. And whilst Hello Games did patch the game, that prevented future corrupt saves, it didn't fix already corrupted saves. Sure, this happens, when The Last of Us launched in 2013, it had an auto-save bug as well. I found I had to replay the first two hours.

It sounds a whole lot like you looked up 'No Mans Sky game breaking bug' and just posted the examples you found on the first page. To be clear, you can do this for almost any game. Seriously, you can. Google 'Witcher 3 crash on startup' and see tons of results of people facing this issue.

For instance, with your first 'quest wouldn't trigger' example, reading the actual article says it only happens in a very specific situation. One that could obviously happen to people, but is not at all the same as saying the game was 'completely broken' as you claim.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

It sounds a whole lot like you looked up 'No Mans Sky game breaking bug' and just posted the examples you found on the first page. To be clear, you can do this for almost any game. Seriously, you can. Google 'Witcher 3 crash on startup' and see tons of results of people facing this issue.

People do post a lot of made-up shit, for sure, but it happened to me and put me off playing the game again until the first substantial content patches arrived, which I've posted about before. And while I couldn't find in forum search, I'm sure I posted my the email I received from Hello Games following send emailing them my save file that they requested so see if it was recoverable. They eventually confirmed that it unfortunately was not.

Spoiler

From: Hello Games <support@hellogames.zendesk.com>
Subject: [Request received] Gameplay Support - no source for anti-matter
Date: 16 August 2016 at 21:41:43 BST
To: *****
Reply-To: Hello Games <support+id22476@hellogames.zendesk.com>
##- Please type your reply above this line -##
Thank you for emailing Hello Games Support.
We have received your request for help and the ticket number is (22476)
For PC Users - please refer to this post first, which we will continually update:
http://www.no-mans-sky.com/2016/08/pc-support/
For gameplay issues on PC and PS4 - please refer to this post, with common workarounds:
http://www.no-mans-sky.com/2016/08/gameplay-support/
If you are still experiencing difficulties, please provide us with more details including:
- A description of the problem, including if the issue repeats itself or just happened once.
- What platform you are playing on (PC, PS4, Steam, GoG)
- Any relevant screenshots and links
PC users - please provide your PC specifications:
1. Click "Help" in the top left corner of the steam client,
2. Click system information
3. Right click in the system information window and select "Copy all to clipboard"
4. Paste into your response email
PC Crashes - please attach the following:
You will hopefully find a crash dump here:
C:\Users\\AppData\Local\Temp
(it will be called something like NMS_crash_1471005374.dmp)
We are a small team, so unfortunately we won't be able to reply to general messages here but we'll try and get to all urgent game queries within 48 hours during office hours.
Please do not send repeat emails unless in direct response from us as this may risk your email address being marked as spam and blocked.
To add additional comments, reply to this email.
Thank you

For instance, with your first 'quest wouldn't trigger' example, reading the actual article says it only happens in a very specific situation. One that could obviously happen to people, but is not at all the same as saying the game was 'completely broken' as you claim.

The very specific situation was everybody who pre-ordered using their pre-order bonuses following the main quest prompts. At the time, NMS was one of the biggest pre-ordered games. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Seanspeed]

People do post a lot of made-up shit, for sure, but it happened to me and put me off playing the game again until the first substantial content patches arrived, which I've posted about before. And while I couldn't find in forum search, I'm sure I posted my the email I received from Hello Games following send emailing them my save file that they requested so see if it was recoverable. They eventually confirmed that it unfortunately was not.



The very specific situation was everybody who pre-ordered using their pre-order bonuses following the main quest prompts. At the time, NMS was one of the biggest pre-ordered games. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm sure you did experience such issues, and other people aren't lying about when they do for other games, either. But there's a difference between some people having problems and the idea that the issues were very widespread or ubiquitous, much less saying the game is 'completely broken'.

I dont know man, I just wish people remembered that words are supposed to mean things. Everything is hyperbolic nowadays. There's no end of games that I've played through just fine that I've seen other people calling 'completely broken' or 'unplayable' and I just dont get it.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I dont know man, I just wish people remembered that words are supposed to mean things. Everything is hyperbolic nowadays. There's no end of games that I've played through just fine that I've seen other people calling 'completely broken' or 'unplayable' and I just dont get it.

Hence why I said it's subjective. No one person here can make a qualified objective statement about the sated of the NMS, or any other game. Others having no issues doesn't negate the game being so broken for me or me walked away from the game for two years.

I not only get your point, but whole-heartedly agree with you on the pervasive infiltration of hyperbole in narrative of what feels like just about everything!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The very specific situation was everybody who pre-ordered using their pre-order bonuses following the main quest prompts. At the time, NMS was one of the biggest pre-ordered games. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This is a broken quest rather than a broken game. Had there been no preorder bonus, no-one would have been bothered. It's the kind of gotcha that QA needs to test for, when players don't run the tutorial exactly as prescribed. The bonus ship should have been locked behind completion of a certain amount of tutorial and that was a silly oversight. Other than that, for those that weren't impacted, I thought the game pretty robust. I don't recall any bugs in the first few hours of play, in stark contrast to many bigger titles with clearly broken engines and missing content and commonly bugged content.

My bugbear at the moment is Apex Legends, a massive cash-cow for EA which has laughably bizarre QA. Somehow with every update they manage to break something that worked before and didn't need to be touched. Latest update introduced a bug in the portraits where one portrait uses the normal map from a different portrait if its animated. How the hell can you mix that up?! When it was working fine previously?!?!

 

[Deleted member 11852]

This is a broken quest rather than a broken game.

It broke the game in that you could you not obtain the engine tech too leave the starting system, which meant you could do next to nothing other than mine that pool of randomly spawned early game resources, but to no end because the majority of the game and technology that the player is supposed to obtain is deliberately not randomly generated in the starting system.

The reason it was so irritating was because the game heavily encouraged you to explore and gather resources before moving on, so you could spend a lot of hours doing that until realising you actually couldn't progress.

Had there been no preorder bonus, no-one would have been bothered.

Come on man, that's an asinine position to adopt. If it didn't happen, nobody would care?

My bugbear at the moment is Apex Legends, a massive cash-cow for EA which has laughably bizarre QA. Somehow with every update they manage to break something that worked before and didn't need to be touched. Latest update introduced a bug in the portraits where one portrait uses the normal map from a different portrait if its animated. How the hell can you mix that up?! When it was working fine previously?!?!

This has been my experience of many online games, but particularly EverQuest and World of Warcraft because there are so many moving parts. I think with games like this you have to accept that things might break. Seven years on No Man's Sky still has bugs introduced with updates, the corrupt save file bug was returned a few times. A lot of game code still put together with spit and sellotape. And it's easy to understand why then the codebase changes so many for years and years.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

There's a very different definition of 'broken' being used here.

It broke the game in that you could you not obtain the engine tech too leave the starting system, which meant you could do next to nothing other than mine that pool of randomly spawned early game resources, but to no end because the majority of the game and technology that the player is supposed to obtain is deliberately not randomly generated in the starting system.

The reason it was so irritating was because the game heavily encouraged you to explore and gather resources before moving on, so you could spend a lot of hours doing that until realising you actually couldn't progress.

The engine and systems and code worked. That's a working game. It was a broken quest, a single set of parameters that functioned correctly regards the game's execution, but ended progression due to a check-pointing oversight. It's like an IO problem, a Garbage-In-Garbage-Out problem for an otherwise semantically correct piece of code.

Come on man, that's an asinine position to adopt. If it didn't happen, nobody would care?

No, only that it was a freak of a set of parameters that broke an otherwise correctly functioning engine. The engine was not broken or in a poor state; it had a doozy of a parameter fail during the content creation. It was a very easy solve, unlike fixing a broken engine.

This is trying to make the qualitative distinction between a 'broken' game where the code is a mess and can't function correctly and produces erratic results versus a game with a killer bug that slipped under the radar, could have easily been avoided, and is very easily remedied by a tiny tweak of the parameters. Importantly, for lots of players had no problems at all with NMS, whereas everyone has problems with what I'd call 'broken' games like Fallout '76. That's the distinction and definition I'm using. NMS was bugged with a severe bug yet trivial bug that stopped progression; Fallout '76 was broken through-and-through.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

There's a very different definition of 'broken' being used here.

Perhaps. But if I buy a product - which I did - that does not work as advertised and expected, according to consumer law in the UK (where I work), then it is broken.

The engine and systems and code worked. That's a working game. It was a broken quest, a single set of parameters that functioned correctly regards the game's execution, but ended progression due to a check-pointing oversight. It's like an IO problem, a Garbage-In-Garbage-Out problem for an otherwise semantically correct piece of code.

The engine and system code worked as long as you did not do certain things that the game actively directed you to do. That's like buying a car and then being told, oh actually don't follow the satnav because the car will explode. That's mental.

If something does not work reliably, it's broken. But I followed the product directing me in how to use it! If you try to use something in a way it's not designed to be used, that's mis-use. European consumer law is really helpful in discussion likes this because it's been written for situations like that.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

There's a very different definition of 'broken' being used here.

The engine and systems and code worked. That's a working game. It was a broken quest, a single set of parameters that functioned correctly regards the game's execution, but ended progression due to a check-pointing oversight. It's like an IO problem, a Garbage-In-Garbage-Out problem for an otherwise semantically correct piece of code.

No, only that it was a freak of a set of parameters that broke an otherwise correctly functioning engine. The engine was not broken or in a poor state; it had a doozy of a parameter fail during the content creation. It was a very easy solve, unlike fixing a broken engine.

This is trying to make the qualitative distinction between a 'broken' game where the code is a mess and can't function correctly and produces erratic results versus a game with a killer bug that slipped under the radar, could have easily been avoided, and is very easily remedied by a tiny tweak of the parameters. Importantly, for lots of players had no problems at all with NMS, whereas everyone has problems with what I'd call 'broken' games like Fallout '76. That's the distinction and definition I'm using. NMS was bugged with a severe bug yet trivial bug that stopped progression; Fallout '76 was broken through-and-through.

I get what you are saying and you are certainly techically correct. The game technically works, you just can't progress in it.

However, from the consumer point of view a game breaking bug is a game breaking bug and if they are unable to leave what is basically the tutorial, it is from their POV a broken game.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes. We're all in agreement on that. However, the topic was whether GaaS tends to introduce more problems on account of games becoming more complex. The kind of issues plaguing FO '76 are completely different to a bugged quest. Those took a huge amount of post-launch work to get to 'almost-not-crap'. The issues surrounding NMS launch weren't of this type. I'm happy to call it broken in terms of consumer law or player experience, but not in terms of whether the game is unwieldy and problematic as evidence that offline solo player games can be as messed up as online GaaS titles.

Pick whatever word you want other than "broken" to name that type of broken - systemic problems across the systems and content - and I'll use that instead. Then we can consider games that evidence that behaviour and see if GaaS are more "whatever-that-is" than offline titles.