Its not just me, games used to be better

But you are not going to change the market by complaining. You can change the market by actively seeking out and paying for experiences that appeal more to you. If no one was playing and buying Tekken 8, and people instead played and bought other games, don't you think Namco would notice?
The problem there though, and with the free market in general, is that the cost to compete can be prohibitive such that there is no competition and you are afforded only limited choice of poor options, at which point the only option is to complain. So, yeah, a different fighter might appeal to a different audience with difference values, but is anyone going to make that fighter? Do you know what the risk and investment and potential rewards are, and can you secure funding? In a more extreme example, let's say there's gokarting near me and I don't like how they organise it. There isn't going to be more than one gokarting option in a locale, so I'm stuck with it. Nothing left to do but complain and hope I can get change. Or just complain because communication is a natural human interaction.

And sometimes complaining does result in change. Sometimes for the worse!

In Nesh's case lamenting fighters, or Techuse lamenting competitive MP shooters, the most obvious real-world solution in real terms is go set up a developer and create your own games that fix the problems of modern games. If they are better games, you'd expect to sell more. But that's a huge undertaking and an incredible risk! Are either game to put their money where their mouth is? ;) And I dare say that if either created a game that sold well, they'd see the opportunity to make lots more money from other content and be tempted, like every other developer, to change their formula for the one that makes the most money which isn't the one which conforms to their ideal game design...
 
It is incredibly interesting to discuss different game mechanics and other design choices. Your Tekken comments are a great example of this.

But you are not going to change the market by complaining. You can change the market by actively seeking out and paying for experiences that appeal more to you. If no one was playing and buying Tekken 8, and people instead played and bought other games, don't you think Namco would notice?
You mean like how Namco destroyed Soul Calibur similar to how Tekken 8 evolves and abandoned it and almost abandoned Tekken at some point?

What kind of sign do you think it is, that you can't suggest a single true 3D fighting game to choose in place of Tekken and you even suggested going back to old games? You are admitting a negative trend yourself.
 
You mean like how Namco destroyed Soul Calibur similar to how Tekken 8 evolves and abandoned it and almost abandoned Tekken at some point?

What kind of sign do you think it is, that you can't suggest a single true 3D fighting game to choose in place of Tekken and you even suggested going back to old games? You are admitting a negative trend yourself.
I can fully accept that a lot of players (even the majority) consider Tekken 8 a worse game than Tekken 7. I think the latest BF games are worse than BF4. But instead of just complaining and continue playing BF I can take that chance to try other games either in similar genres or in totally different genres.

There are several other fighting games besides Tekken, here is even a list: https://glitchwave.com/charts/top/game/2020s/g:fighting/

However, if all you want is another Tekken 7 you might be disappointed on what is available on the market. But it could also be an opportunity to try something you didn't know you wanted.
 
In Nesh's case lamenting fighters, or Techuse lamenting competitive MP shooters, the most obvious real-world solution in real terms is go set up a developer and create your own games that fix the problems of modern games.

Wouldn't it be easier just to play the old games that you still like? People still play Quake 1 for example.
 
It is incredibly interesting to discuss different game mechanics and other design choices. Your Tekken comments are a great example of this.

But you are not going to change the market by complaining. You can change the market by actively seeking out and paying for experiences that appeal more to you. If no one was playing and buying Tekken 8, and people instead played and bought other games, don't you think Namco would notice?

As I stated before, I can complain all day that there is no Killzone 5 that is exactly like Killzone 2 except for the things I would like to change, but isn't it better that I seek out other experiences that give me the same "rush"?

Would developers know why no one was playing though? Most of the time I see a creative lead talking about their upcoming game I wonder if this person even plays video games. There seems to be a huge disconnect between developers and their target market.
 
Would developers know why no one was playing though? Most of the time I see a creative lead talking about their upcoming game I wonder if this person even plays video games. There seems to be a huge disconnect between developers and their target market.

If there’s a disconnect between developers and their target market those developers will go out of business and we’ll only be left with good games. That’s what we want right? It’s not possible for there to be a disconnect and also continue to make money.
 
If there’s a disconnect between developers and their target market those developers will go out of business and we’ll only be left with good games. That’s what we want right? It’s not possible for there to be a disconnect and also continue to make money.
To be fair that does seem to be happening to at least some very prominent studios. Maybe Ubisoft etc. are evidence that the disconnect is real.
 
To be fair that does seem to be happening to at least some very prominent studios. Maybe Ubisoft etc. are evidence that the disconnect is real.

Sure but studios going bust isn’t a new phenomenon. Lots of old studios failed too.

Tekken 8 has a 90 metacritic score and 75 user score which are both fantastic numbers. Interestingly a lot of negative user reviews are commenting on changes that benefit newer less skilled players. So it seems to be the case that hardcore fans were sacrificed to attract a larger audience. This is a perfectly valid thing to do and makes the game better for some people and worse for others.
 
I can fully accept that a lot of players (even the majority) consider Tekken 8 a worse game than Tekken 7. I think the latest BF games are worse than BF4. But instead of just complaining and continue playing BF I can take that chance to try other games either in similar genres or in totally different genres.

There are several other fighting games besides Tekken, here is even a list: https://glitchwave.com/charts/top/game/2020s/g:fighting/

However, if all you want is another Tekken 7 you might be disappointed on what is available on the market. But it could also be an opportunity to try something you didn't know you wanted.
Have you missed my previous post that each fighting game is a sub genre and that there is no new 3D fighting game to compete Tekken? The only true 3D fighter that can compete it is VF and we havent seen a new sequel since VF5.

How many games of the list that you posted are any substitutes to it? Boomerang Fu? Wrestling Empire?

The list you posted is random and generic. It's like suggesting Sonic Riders to someone who is looking for a Racing sim or Rocket League to someone looking for a football game or House of the Dead to someone looking for a first person shooter like Half life
 
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If there’s a disconnect between developers and their target market those developers will go out of business and we’ll only be left with good games. That’s what we want right? It’s not possible for there to be a disconnect and also continue to make money.
They are closing down left and right. Deservedly so.
 
Besides games that fail miserably because some heads in the development companies are force feeding the market with business models and designs that people do not want, lets not underestimate also the "irrational" part of the market. In economics there has always been the assumption that the market is always rational, therefore without intervention, it evolves towards the best possible outcome and people always choose what maximizes their utility/value or their benefit.

This false assumption has been so much ingrained in our minds that we tend to use the same line of thought when we say "vote with our money".

Reality debunks this assumptions again and again and it is visible in pretty much everywhere in the course of our history to our daily lives.

Humans are not perfect beings, we many times have irrational tendencies both observable and unobservable and neither do we have 100% information.

Businesses are fully aware of this and this is where they are betting on to maximize sales. Games included. It's how they can sell us products at 100 times the actual cost to make. It's how people vote with their money in gambling machines that are designed to give a dopamine hit that you are so close to earning a gazillion. It's how we spent hours and money in games that we dont really enjoy because it's a "sequel" of a popular game or because they make us feel that we are so close in winning that special loot or getting a kill strike.

If we always chose what's best for us we would have been living in perfect utopias thousands of years before already in perfect harmony and peace, taking care of our bodies and minds to their maximum potential.

Whatever bad tendencies we have in something they are reflected in something else as well.

And that includes our gaming habits too. How many times did we keep collecting backlogs of games we never play? Ironically most people don't even finish the games they buy. But a sale is still a sale
 
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Perhaps. It’s also not a new thing for studios to close. Maybe games always sucked?
It's a new thing for studios to close at the rate they have been. There were always bad and mediocre games, they just never represented as big of a percentage as they do now.
 
Perhaps. It’s also not a new thing for studios to close. Maybe games always sucked?
It seems worse now than in the past. There's been lots of talk about the industry as a whole getting absolutely hammered with closures, layoffs etc.
 
It seems worse now than in the past. There's been lots of talk about the industry as a whole getting absolutely hammered with closures, layoffs etc.
Developers aim too high and many bet on "forever" GaaS games. These types of games were a rarity to non existent on consoles before. Developers made smaller games we could play, enjoy and finish. Smaller games require less cost and can add density in the gameplay. They were also much more relaxing and carefree. Games these days feel like an obligation.

"If you don't play the game now you will miss that special one time event that's only available during that weekend. If you are absent from the game for x amount of time you lose rank. If you don't finish these side quests you will miss out. If you don't get that DLC content you will not see the real ending and story. If you don't collect 9999 secret skulls of this 100+ hour game you will get the bad ending. Oh you thought you bought the full game? Here is the Final Remake Remaster of the Ultimate Edition with the real experience for you to buy AGAIN".

They try to keep us on our toes about what we are missing instead of letting us enjoy

Silent Hill 2 Remake for me is such a comforting experience that there is no DLC and it doesn't require 100+ to finish
 
It's a new thing for studios to close at the rate they have been. There were always bad and mediocre games, they just never represented as big of a percentage as they do now.
Do we have data to back this up? As a person who has been playing games since the late early 80s I can't believe that this is true. There are a lot of bad and mediocre games on most systems.
 
Do we have data to back this up? As a person who has been playing games since the late early 80s I can't believe that this is true. There are a lot of bad and mediocre games on most systems.

I would love to see the data too. There are likely more studios today and far more games today than ever before. So every number will trend higher.
 
Have you missed my previous post that each fighting game is a sub genre and that there is no new 3D fighting game to compete Tekken? The only true 3D fighter that can compete it is VF and we havent seen a new sequel since VF5.

If all you want is a new Tekken 7 you will be disappointed with anything else. Just like I won't ever be really happy with anything besides BF4. But that does not mean that we can't seek out wonderful new experiences that has the possibility to affect us and give us the same enjoyment as the games we loved before. If you just limit yourself to want more of what you already have you will miss out on a lot in life.
 
Humans are not perfect beings, we many times have irrational tendencies both observable and unobservable and neither do we have 100% information.

Humans didn’t just turn irrational yesterday though so not sure how it’s relevant to the convo. If your argument is that anyone who likes the things you don’t like is irrational well that’s not really an argument. It’s just subjective hubris.
 
That's certainly an issue. But the issue I have is that these companies show vague trailers with no gameplay on offer. Then a lot of times passes by, with no major update. Sometimes years.
 
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