ipod video vs psp - getting interesting

[Shifty Geezer]

They've got flexible displays already inthe form of what I think is called electronic ink. It's like a sheet of plastic you can fold and roll. Now think of an old world scroll with a roll of parchment between two wooden struts, and a messenger would ride into town and deliver his messager which is unrolled and held between the two struts. Nowadays the struts could holder a battery and electronics and the parchment could be a sheet of this electronic ink - a screen that rolls up into your pocket.

At the moment these tech are only monochrome, but eventually they'll have colour, and you could roll the screen up into the phone. Could maybe get a 6"x3" screen quite comfortably into a 3" mobile.

 

[Lazy8s]

Limited function devices aren't the only ones that will have their markets eclipsed by the mobile phone. Home tethered devices like consoles and PCs will also become marginalized by the mobility of the phones despite the better presentation with big screens and speakers which home machines can offer just as the fully immersive, hydraulic powered, force feedback deluxe cabinets weren't enough to stop the convenience of home-play consoles from overtaking the arcades.

Because more mobile phones will be sold than any other computing device, the cost of production for the technology in those devices will be more effective, and their performance will be beyond that of dedicated mobile devices at any specific function and will provide a more cost effective base for the technology that more expensive home/location based devices will use.

With Nokia's strong share of the phone market, N-Gage is the current frontrunner for the future of video games.

 

[mckmas8808]

They've got flexible displays already inthe form of what I think is called electronic ink. It's like a sheet of plastic you can fold and roll. Now think of an old world scroll with a roll of parchment between two wooden struts, and a messenger would ride into town and deliver his messager which is unrolled and held between the two struts. Nowadays the struts could holder a battery and electronics and the parchment could be a sheet of this electronic ink - a screen that rolls up into your pocket.

At the moment these tech are only monochrome, but eventually they'll have colour, and you could roll the screen up into the phone. Could maybe get a 6"x3" screen quite comfortably into a 3" mobile.

OOOOOO yeah. I heard about that. Yeah they are in monochrome only. Great technology though. And Lazy8s you are crazy man.

 

[Ty]

They've got flexible displays already inthe form of what I think is called electronic ink. It's like a sheet of plastic you can fold and roll. Now think of an old world scroll with a roll of parchment between two wooden struts, and a messenger would ride into town and deliver his messager which is unrolled and held between the two struts. Nowadays the struts could holder a battery and electronics and the parchment could be a sheet of this electronic ink - a screen that rolls up into your pocket.

At the moment these tech are only monochrome, but eventually they'll have colour, and you could roll the screen up into the phone. Could maybe get a 6"x3" screen quite comfortably into a 3" mobile.

I thought OLEDs could be made in such a form?

 

[Lazy8s]

Modern mobile phones don't have to be so small. They've tended toward miniaturization because their early adopters have been in the younger demographics who favor portability over accessibility. As acceptance widens to older demographics and current users themselves get older, larger phone models with bigger screens will become more viable too.

 

[SiBoy]

Actually, it's the Casio calculator-watch that will kill them all.
And no, phones won't do it either. People like bigger screens (especially those of us with poor eyesight) and I don't see holographic diplays on cell phones in the near future. When I got my first PDA phone FIVE years ago people said they would kill PDA sales...never happened.

But PDA sales are laughable compared to phones. Phones could displace PDA's, but where's the motivation?

 

[one]

Modern mobile phones don't have to be so small. They've tended toward miniaturization because their early adopters have been in the younger demographics who favor portability over accessibility. As acceptance widens to older demographics and current users themselves get older, larger phone models with bigger screens will become more viable too.

You mean that famous ngage "sidetalk"?

 

[Ty]

Modern mobile phones don't have to be so small. They've tended toward miniaturization because their early adopters have been in the younger demographics who favor portability over accessibility. As acceptance widens to older demographics and current users themselves get older, larger phone models with bigger screens will become more viable too.

They don't have to be so small but you know what, I think most people prefer them to be that way regardless of age.

Do you have any studies that show older consumers are more willing to accept larger phones (if they come with more features?) Seriously, I think that would be an interesting statistic to examine.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So not only are mobile phones going to replace my hairdryer and electric shaver, they'll also replace my console as well. I fear for Sony. When they're releaseing PS4 with goodness knows how much power, they'll be competing head to head with a mobile phone at a fraction of the power.

One gets the impression the only reason TEXAN and Lazy8's are extollng the apparently limitless virtues of the mobile phone is because it's the only hardware where people are buyine SEGA chipsets. Mobile phone = SEGA = Will return to rule the world!

Sorry but I'm unconvinced. Whatever you can package in a diddy mobile phone, you can pack 10x as much in a home console and get a much better experience. They're two different markets that won't be colliding any time before organic computing IMO.

 

[PC-Engine]

They don't have to be so small but you know what, I think most people prefer them to be that way regardless of age.

Do you have any studies that show older consumers are more willing to accept larger phones (if they come with more features?) Seriously, I think that would be an interesting statistic to examine.

Gotta agree with Ty here. Phones will always need to be small to be adopted by the masses. The majority of people don't want to strap a PDA sized phone to their belts nor do they want it in their pockets. In fact look at the portable audio market, do you see the majority of people wanting to carry bigger and bigger audio players around with them? No, in fact it's totally opposite ie they want smaller with more functions.

 

[darkblu]

Gotta agree with Ty here. Phones will always need to be small to be adopted by the masses. The majority of people don't want to strap a PDA sized phone to their belts nor do they want it in their pockets. In fact look at the portable audio market, do you see the majority of people wanting to carry bigger and bigger audio players around with them? No, in fact it's totally opposite ie they want smaller with more functions.

one of the reasons cellulars have been so small is that they've been essentially an audio device ever since - you predominantly use it either (a) holding it to your ear, or (b) holding it somewhere covered and with earbuds and mic. expect things to change with the advent of the next generation cellular networks where video connection will be more and more common - the devices then will have to be held in front of you and also have a decent screen. and that sounds more like a pda-style use and dimensions to me.

 

[PC-Engine]

You don't need a big screen for video especially if it turns your phone into a PDA sized brick. For geeks it makes sense. For the rest of the population, they want small phones.

 

[mckmas8808]

You don't need a big screen for video especially if it turns your phone into a PDA sized brick. For geeks it makes sense. For the rest of the population, they want small phones.

I can't believe it but I'm 100% behind PC-Engine here. The masses don't want to carry huge cellphones all the time. They just don't.

 

[Ty]

one of the reasons cellulars have been so small is that they've been essentially an audio device ever since - you predominantly use it either (a) holding it to your ear, or (b) holding it somewhere covered and with earbuds and mic. expect things to change with the advent of the next generation cellular networks where video connection will be more and more common - the devices then will have to be held in front of you and also have a decent screen. and that sounds more like a pda-style use and dimensions to me.

Yes, good point. I didn't think about the capabilities of the phone moving beyond just audio.

But further reflection upon brings up some questions I don't have the answer to:

Though a video phone is compelling to the geek in me, I also don't know if I want to be looking at the person or have the person looking at me. Maybe I'm a anonynmity freak. But there are always ways around this, like not allowing for video to be used if you don't want to - so in the end it becomes an optional feature. Ok.

I like the ability to do things while talking. This is not really possible when you are focused on a video screen. But this too is something that can be optional.

In the end, I dunno if I personally find video phones compelling.

If in the future, Star Trek doesn't have it on their communicators, why should we?

 

[darkblu]

But further reflection upon brings up some questions I don't have the answer to:

Though a video phone is compelling to the geek in me, I also don't know if I want to be looking at the person or have the person looking at me. Maybe I'm a anonynmity freak. But there are always ways around this, like not allowing for video to be used if you don't want to - so in the end it becomes an optional feature. Ok.

yes, definitely. but just imagine for a secod, given that the technology is widely available society culture may actually evolve to a point where it may be impolite to refuse a video call in some circumstances. so people may be carrying video-capable phones anyway, and actually using them for videocalls, be that even a small percentage of the time. now, given that you'd actually make those videocalls now and then, don't you want to have a decent, say, ipod video-like screen rather than a post-stamp-sized one?

I like the ability to do things while talking. This is not really possible when you are focused on a video screen. But this too is something that can be optional.

again, very true. but i bet you also have those moments when'd wish to focus on the conversation, and even see your party : )

In the end, I dunno if I personally find video phones compelling.

you know, i was thinking the same about the ipod when it got released, 'who'd want a bulky hdd-based mp3 player when the flash based ones are alredy of decent memory capacity and so miniature?' well, we all know what happened..

If in the future, Star Trek doesn't have it on their communicators, why should we?

i believe that's for historic reasons ; )

 

[PC-Engine]

you know, i was thinking the same about the ipod when it got released, 'who'd want a bulky hdd-based mp3 player when the flash based ones are alredy of decent memory capacity and so miniature?' well, we all know what happened..

There are a lot of problems with this analogy.

First of all a lot of people don't carry iPods with them everyday, but a lot of people do carry their cellphones everyday. Second, flash based music players are just as popular as HDD based players, maybe even more. Third, when the price of flash memory comes down even further, big HDD based music players will become less attractive and may eventually become obsolete if it doesn't include some kind of video playback with a nice big screen. At that point it becomes a PMP with a big screen and people will carry them even less than cellphones. Finally cellphones don't need to be big like PDAs to have videophone capability.

 

[Simon F]

In the end, I dunno if I personally find video phones compelling.

If in the future, Star Trek doesn't have it on their communicators, why should we?

That's because they were backwards. Thunderbirds OTOH featured wristwatches with video conferencing

 

[OVERLORD]

Two things CMAN. UMDs are doing great for the length of time that they have been out. Read this.


Link --> http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9379116/site/newsweek/

See CMAN UMDs are doing very well right now. There future is unpredictable because portable media formats have never had a real consumer base.

And for battery life the ipod video 30GB version gets 2 hours of video and the 60GB version gets 3 hours of video playback.
Link --> http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html

The PSP's battery life is about 3 to 4 hours depending on screen brightness and volume.

Some may not see PSP threat from PMP players such as Video Ipod but some in industry think quite the opposite. See http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=12276

PMP players much like MP3 players before them lacked legal content before Apple revolutionised the market with their players. The difference was Apple supplied legally distributed content. Which they propose now with Video Ipod.

This now becomes argument for either proprietary types like Sony UMD discs vs downloadable content such as that proposed by Apple. This is only the begining. Will Sony now respond by incorporating Video into their MP3 playing hardware? If they do, where does that leave UMD support?

As record industry now slowly accepts. It cost far more to produce physical media than to distribute via the NET. Movie & TV studios now face same scenario/dilemma.

Sony have failed UMD support by not making it mainstream. Lack of TV output makes UMD/PSP a niche product for video viewing. No UMD support in PS3 speaks volumes. This in itself reminds me of Minidisc! Another failed proprietary Sony product.

Portable Minidisc players far outstripped Home or incar players. To invest in all three cost far more compared to the already established digital format of the time CD. Whilst CD now accomodates MP3, Sony Minidiscs with Attrac tried but ultimately failed to become as mainstream as CD.

Same goes for DVD. Unlike Laserdisc before it. DVD has now become recordable. UMD due to piracy both for games and movies may remain play only. Many DVD players support MP3 playback. Newer players also now support DIVX/XVID. All three are Net compliant distributable mediums.

I question Sony's motivation in adopting UMD as a way of distributing content.

Now thinking about the whole Hdd, UMD, Memory stick & DVD argument. Wouldn't it have been more beneficial had they in fact just gone HDD instead of UMD.

Infact why not use DVD to install games/movies into the player as you do on your PC? This would've cut devlopment & production cost due to not incorporating UMD optical reader.

The net benefit might also be that battery life might also be extended.

What motivated Sony to come up with UMD?

 

[Captain Chickenpants]

What motivated Sony to come up with UMD?

What was the alternative?

Existing media (such as CD/DVD) is too large for the device.
So how else are they to sell Movie content for it? Selling downloads requires the user to have sufficient space to store the videos, which adds to the cost of either adding a HD (which will use battery power), or forcing the user to buy large memory cards.

I see it as Sony have simply created a media that fits in their device and they are selling content on it. Apparantly UMD movies are selling quite well in the US.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Sony have failed UMD support by not making it mainstream. Lack of TV output makes UMD/PSP a niche product for video viewing. No UMD support in PS3 speaks volumes. This in itself reminds me of Minidisc! Another failed proprietary Sony product.

Portable Minidisc players far outstripped Home or incar players. To invest in all three cost far more compared to the already established digital format of the time CD. Whilst CD now accomodates MP3, Sony Minidiscs with Attrac tried but ultimately failed to become as mainstream as CD.

Same goes for DVD. Unlike Laserdisc before it. DVD has now become recordable. UMD due to piracy both for games and movies may remain play only. Many DVD players support MP3 playback. Newer players also now support DIVX/XVID. All three are Net compliant distributable mediums.

I question Sony's motivation in adopting UMD as a way of distributing content.

Now thinking about the whole Hdd, UMD, Memory stick & DVD argument. Wouldn't it have been more beneficial had they in fact just gone HDD instead of UMD.

Infact why not use DVD to install games/movies into the player as you do on your PC? This would've cut devlopment & production cost due to not incorporating UMD optical reader.

The net benefit might also be that battery life might also be extended.

What motivated Sony to come up with UMD?

You act as if the PSP was just a portable movie player.
It's a handheld games console first, a pmp second.
If you look at it the games point of view, I don't see the UMD support as any more "failed" than for example GameBoy cartridges.