In the memory of Rachel Corrie.

[Legion]

Next time you're driving and you see a Critical Mass demonstration be sure to plow right into them. They deserve it for intentionally blocking your stupid SUV. Or maybe you'd like to drive at 45mph past a school and run over a kid who steps out onto the road without looking.

Is this really what happened?

The bulldozers had been in the area for two hours, and were certainly aware of the protesters and their activities. What is less clear is whether the bulldozer operator saw Corrie immediately prior to killing her.

Witness statements by fellow ISM protesters indicate that Corrie would have been clearly visible to the driver while she was standing on top of the pile of rubble in front of the driver. She was wearing a red reflective jacket at this time.

According to those who have been permitted to read it, the unpublished IDF report and the unpublished report by a branch of the Israeli judiciary both state that the driver never saw or heard Corrie. It is not clear what timeframe these statement might refer to.

A further complication is that, according to regulations, the bulldozer driver should have been directed in part by other IDF soldiers at the scene. Caterpillar D9s have a restricted field of vision, limited by the small armored windows, with a number of blind spots. In theory the other soldiers should have covered these spots.

The IDF commander of Gaza Strip, in an interview to Israeli Channel 2 actualia research broadcast Uvda with Ilana Dayan told that soldiers were bound to stay in their armoured vehicles and could not get out to direct the bulldozer or to arrest the protesters due to the threat of Palestinian snipers. He also added that Corrie was facing the bulldozer alone, while the rest of her friends were away, probably forcing the APC to handle them instead of watching over the bulldozer.

Seems to me she knowingly got in its way.

the Autospy:

An initial autopsy was performed at the National Center of Forensic Medicine in Tel Aviv. The Olympian reported that the National Center concluded on March 20 that her "death was caused by pressure on the chest from a mechanical apparatus".

The Jerusalem Post issue of June 26, 2003 reported that "An autopsy found that the cause of Corrie’s death was falling debris".

Did the press fail to mention this?


D9 Military:

are you telling me the driver has a perfect view?


Corrie was run over:

BS. You are telling me this vehicle weighing over 10 tons would have left her body intact after dirving over her?

 

[Nathan]

Is this really what happened?

No, it was a fictional example, that's all. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'm quite sure those bulldozers have a shit view of anything that is close. It doesn't matter. The vehicle should be driven in a manner that is appropriate for it's operating conditions.

I'm not saying that it was a clever thing for Rachel to stand in the way. It was even dumber to climb up on the pile of rubble in front of the bulldozer blade. But we all know protestors do stupid things like that, so the driver should have taken that into account.

BTW, that picture is a pretty good example of the driver operating the machine in an unsafe way.

 

[Nathan]

BS. You are telling me this vehicle weighing over 10 tons would have left her body intact after dirving over her?

In soft dirt, sure. The reason bulldozers have tracks is to minimise the pressure they exert on the ground. From the photos, I'd say it's entirely reasonable.

 

[John Reynolds]

Personally, unless I knowingly want to give my life in protest of events I'm not going to get anywhere near machinery that large while it's being operated. I don't trust the driver of a VW bug on the road next to me while driving home from work, let alone a blue collar worker piloting one of those behemoths (no offense to the blue collar workers of the world intended).

 

[Legion]

Is this really what happened?

No, it was a fictional example, that's all. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

still seems to me you were making an analogy.

I'm quite sure those bulldozers have a shit view of anything that is close. It doesn't matter. The vehicle should be driven in a manner that is appropriate for it's operating conditions.

Come now. If i run onto a construction site and dive infront a bulldozer should i charge the driver with neglegance for hitting me?

I'm not saying that it was a clever thing for Rachel to stand in the way. It was even dumber to climb up on the pile of rubble in front of the bulldozer blade. But we all know protestors do stupid things like that, so the driver should have taken that into account.

The fact is she broke away from the crowd and went on her own. The rest of the protestors remained behind. She wrecklessly put her life and other in danger by doing what she did. Thats not neglegence. I'd say this is a matter of facilitating terrorism.

BTW, that picture is a pretty good example of the driver operating the machine in an unsafe way.

I see it as stupidity of those in its way.

 

[Legion]

BS. You are telling me this vehicle weighing over 10 tons would have left her body intact after dirving over her?

In soft dirt, sure. The reason bulldozers have tracks is to minimise the pressure they exert on the ground. From the photos, I'd say it's entirely reasonable.

Do the pictures indicate soft soil to you?

Do her wounds reflect tread marks?

 

[Nathan]

Well I was making an analogy. It's an entirely possible scenerio. Anyway, getting back on track.

Constuction sites have fences to stop people running for that very reason. There's always a limit to how much the operator can accomodate. If the operator knew you were running around beforehand and acting silly, then yes he is to blame. If you appear out of nowhere, with no prior warning, then there's not much he can do about it, is there? The trick is to minimise the risk as much as possible.

The operators knew there were protestors there, yet didn't take adequate precautions - that's the problem. It is good to hear that their policy is too restrain the protestors now. But it's a bit late for Rachel, isn't it.

Try mentally replacing the people in that photo with children, does it still seem OK? The operator has to assume that bystanders will do something stupid, irrespective of there age or mental capacity.

 

[Nathan]

Do the pictures indicate soft soil to you?

Do her wounds reflect tread marks?

Try reading the article linked in Clashman's last post.

 

[Legion]

Well I was making an analogy. It's an entirely possible scenerio. Anyway, getting back on track.

But, thats not what happened.

Constuction sites have fences to stop people running for that very reason. There's always a limit to how much the operator can accomodate. If the operator knew you were running around beforehand and acting silly, then yes he is to blame. If you appear out of nowhere, with no prior warning, then there's not much he can do about it, is there? The trick is to minimise the risk as much as possible.

The operators knew there were protestors there, yet didn't take adequate precautions - that's the problem. It is good to hear that their policy is too restrain the protestors now. But it's a bit late for Rachel, isn't it.

What happened

The bulldozers had been in the area for two hours, and were certainly aware of the protesters and their activities. What is less clear is whether the bulldozer operator saw Corrie immediately prior to killing her.

Witness statements by fellow ISM protesters indicate that Corrie would have been clearly visible to the driver while she was standing on top of the pile of rubble in front of the driver. She was wearing a red reflective jacket at this time.

According to those who have been permitted to read it, the unpublished IDF report and the unpublished report by a branch of the Israeli judiciary both state that the driver never saw or heard Corrie. It is not clear what timeframe these statement might refer to.

A further complication is that, according to regulations, the bulldozer driver should have been directed in part by other IDF soldiers at the scene. Caterpillar D9s have a restricted field of vision, limited by the small armored windows, with a number of blind spots. In theory the other soldiers should have covered these spots.

The IDF commander of Gaza Strip, in an interview to Israeli Channel 2 actualia research broadcast Uvda with Ilana Dayan told that soldiers were bound to stay in their armoured vehicles and could not get out to direct the bulldozer or to arrest the protesters due to the threat of Palestinian snipers. He also added that Corrie was facing the bulldozer alone, while the rest of her friends were away, probably forcing the APC to handle them instead of watching over the bulldozer.

Seems to me they were taking percaustions. Corrie simply broke away from the crowd and deliberately put herself and others in danger. Pure facilitation here.

Try mentally replacing the people in that photo with children, does it still seem OK? The operator has to assume that bystanders will do something stupid, irrespective of there age or mental capacity.

Do we know who those people are?

According to those who have been permitted to read it, the unpublished IDF report and the unpublished report by a branch of the Israeli judiciary both state that the driver never saw or heard Corrie. It is not clear what timeframe these statement might refer to.

A further complication is that, according to regulations, the bulldozer driver should have been directed in part by other IDF soldiers at the scene. Caterpillar D9s have a restricted field of vision, limited by the small armored windows, with a number of blind spots. In theory the other soldiers should have covered these spots.

I am sorry. I do not value the lives of children more than anyone else.

 

[Legion]

Do the pictures indicate soft soil to you?

Do her wounds reflect tread marks?

Try reading the article linked in Clashman's last post.

Was Corrie "run over"?
The blade of the bulldozer passed over Corrie's body (twice), and may have additionally dragged her along the ground, but its tracks did not. If they had done, she would have died sooner, and her body would have been more extensively damaged. Both Israeli reports interpret this as meaning that the bulldozer did not run over Corrie. The ISM interprets this as meaning that the bulldozer "ran over" Corrie.

If this is true then it is impossible the D9 ran over her physically and the ISM is knowingly lying.

 

[Clashman]

Give me a break Legion. If the blade passed over her twice, she was run over. The Israelis saying she didn't have track marks on her is playing a semantics game. It's like saying you didn't get run over by a car because there's no tire marks, whereas anyone in their right mind would interpret a car hitting you dead on, and then you getting crushed underneath it as "being run over".

 

[Legion]

Give me a break Legion. If the blade passed over her twice, she was run over.

Clashman, give yourself a break. The vehicle didn't physically run over her and the ISM is painting a completely inaccurate picture of what happened deliberately to deceive.

Stabbing the woman with the shovel spikes is not running over some one. On top of this the autospy reports she died from being crushed by debris.

The Israelis saying she didn't have track marks on her is playing a semantics game.

Except its not an israeli. Its the head of Wikipedia pointing out of the illogic of the ISM claims by simply providing the evidence.

It's like saying you didn't get run over by a car because there's no tire marks, whereas anyone in their right mind would interpret a car hitting you dead on, and then you getting crushed underneath it as "being run over".

No clash, if you are hit by a car we say you were hit by a car. If the vehicle went over you then we say it ran over you.

Lets be honest. They are trying to make it appear the D9 ground this woman into the ground with its bulk and treads for emotional reasons.

 

[Clashman]

No clash, if you are hit by a car we say you were hit by a car. If the vehicle went over you then we say it ran over you.

So, did the vehicle go over her?:

Yeah, I'd say it did.

 

[Legion]

don't know maybe you should post pics that aren't 404s


Clashman, speaking as Coroner, what is the evidence in those pictures of the vehicle phsyically running over some one. Can you please point them out using evidence from similiar incidences with bulldozers.

 

[RussSchultz]

HOLY CRAP that things huge.

The tracks that surround the body don't seem to fit the size of that bulldozer.

 

[Clashman]

don't know maybe you should post pics that aren't 404s

The pictures should work. If they don't, go to www.jedimaster.net/rachel_corrie.htm

Clashman, speaking as Coroner, what is the evidence in those pictures of the vehicle phsyically running over some one. Can you please point them out using evidence from similiar incidences with bulldozers.

The fact that there are track marks both in front of and behind her, as well as the plowed up ground behind her, imply that the vehicle drove over her and then backed up over her again.

 

[Clashman]

HOLY CRAP that things huge.

The tracks that surround the body don't seem to fit the size of that bulldozer.

Notice that it's on top of about 3 or 4 feet of piled dirt, which makes it look larger than it really is. Besides, you don't have to look at that picture to tell, there's a picture of the bulldozer that actually ran her over in the first pic I posted, and the tracks match up perfectly.

 

[Legion]

don't know maybe you should post pics that aren't 404s

The pictures should work. If they don't, go to www.jedimaster.net/ rachel_corrie.htm

Apparently they are 404s on that webpage as well.

Here is all i can find

:? I am not familiar with bulldozer accidents...is this what a person looks like after being run over by a 10+ ton vehicle with treads? Being that i lack experience in this field, can you point out to me how the wounds are evidence of a dozer accident? Do people who are run over by tanks and dozers generally suffer from bloody noses?

The fact that there are track marks both in front of and behind her, as well as the plowed up ground behind her, imply that the vehicle drove over her and then backed up over her again.

I am sure they are track marks all over considering the vehicle does have to move.

 

[RussSchultz]

The electronic intifada page has the pictures that Clashman wants you to see.

That jedimaster page does the same bad reporting and claims the one picture with her standing in front of the smaller bulldozer with the bullhorn is "moments before", when it clearly isn't the same bulldozer that killed her.

 

[Legion]

The electronic intifada page has the pictures that Clashman wants you to see.

That jedimaster page does the same bad reporting and claims the one picture with her standing in front of the smaller bulldozer with the bullhorn is "moments before", when it clearly isn't the same bulldozer that killed her.

One of those Moore reporting moments i see...